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Thread: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

  1. #151
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Kenpachi is gunna do some serious arse raping, i think he saves yama from certain death in the end
    Spoiler show

  2. #152
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Well, kenpachi's true potential could easily get to the likes of yamamoto IMO. I mean, the guy overall had no formal training, he barely has any control over his power, he does not have shikai or bankai and up until he fought ichigo he and his sword actually weakened each other. Kenpachi took on quinta espada in what could at large be considered the base form of any of the other captains which is at large scary as fuck. If kenpachi knew the name of his sword he would be able to surpass most of the captains bankai IMO. Seriously, so far kenpachi's bankai is basically fighting with two hands.....

  3. #153
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member R3D's Avatar
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    and he cuts people like nothing even though his sword isnt even the least bit sharp

  4. #154
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    If that novel is true... that's interesting. Kenpachi's true potential cannot possibly be limitless, though it shows no clear limit. Could it be? His potential seems tied with his reiatsu. The two seem connected. Wouldn't it be interesting if his reiatsu, thus his potential, is reactive? That it adapts to his opponent? If so, it may be linked with his fighting spirit. It essentially means his reiatsu, in the case that he fights an opponent without using his eyepatch, gets as strong as he needs it to be. The way he tied with Ichigo in SS while he should have murdered him. The way he fought a hard battle with Nnoitra, and next moment he easily slices through Yammy, whose reiatsu levels were indecently high (remember, espada were ranked based on reiatsu alone).
    I always found it strange how Kenpachi's power fluctuates. It always had a more indefinable level than any other character. I always blamed Kubo's writing for that. But it's been a concious decision. Planned out way early. If my theory is correct, then it is no wonder that Aizen would rather not tangle with Kenpachi. Aizen had his evolution planned. He knew his reiatsu would increase to transcendent levels. And if Kenpachi's reiatsu is reactive, or rather, adaptive, he would create an opponent who would attain a similar reiatsu level. And since everything about Kennie is powered by reiatsu, his strenth and durability would increase exponentially.
    The steeper the hill, the faster he runs.
    Last edited by Smerten; June 09, 2012 at 01:14 PM.

  5. #155
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Ok, so what exactly does the novel say?

  6. #156
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Ok, so what exactly does the novel say?
    This post, from another thread, the translations are in the spoiler tags. Please note that Kubo apparently considers these novels canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    From Aho on NF

    Spoiler show


    This one expands on the info vagabon87 posted.

    From Czeliate from BA

    Spoiler show


    There is a lot of controvesy over the validity of the first translation so for now take it with a grain of salt until we get more confirmation.

    The important factors here are the fact that Kubo acknowledges the autors view on Kenpachi's limits to be accurate, especially considering the possible transcendent reiatsu. But the strange Arrancar mentioned, a sort of reincarnation from Szayel Aporro Grantz, mentions Kenpachi's reiatsu as similar to his own. Which was stated to be similar to Ichigonator when he molested Ulquiorra, who by all means was notably more powerful than Nnoitra. So Kenpachi, during the 17 month timeskip, fought this arrancar and showed a power level that would have crushed Nnoitra.

    Secondly, the secrets that Kubo includes, and the fact that luring Kenpachi away from Karakura adds up. Aizen attacked the moment Kenpachi was in Hueco Mundo, not easily able to go back. I would even dare say that he left Yammy for the sake of giving Kenpachi a nice lil' chew toy. Then Aizen used Wonderweiss, and, well, you know the rest.
    The truth is, he has indeed hinted several things now that you look back. Such as the nature of Shinji's Zanpakuto, that was hinted since his first appearance, his way of hanging inverted and such. Isshin knowing about Kon. Etc. And here I underestimated Kubo, thinking he improvised on the spot where he really plans ahead. Maybe I should reread the manga, looking for several hints and such.

    So if the novel is accurately translated, then my theory would explain a lot, though I may ofcourse be wrong, or my theory may be incomplete.
    Last edited by Smerten; June 09, 2012 at 02:26 PM.

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  8. #157
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Crystal Black's Avatar
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, kenpachi's true potential could easily get to the likes of yamamoto IMO. I mean, the guy overall had no formal training, he barely has any control over his power, he does not have shikai or bankai and up until he fought ichigo he and his sword actually weakened each other. Kenpachi took on quinta espada in what could at large be considered the base form of any of the other captains which is at large scary as fuck. If kenpachi knew the name of his sword he would be able to surpass most of the captains bankai IMO. Seriously, so far kenpachi's bankai is basically fighting with two hands.....
    Kenpachi's actually in constant shikai release state, much like Ichigo and possibly Isshin(undetermined) as of now.

  9. #158
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Well, the whole thing about kenpachi's reiatsu makes sense if explained that way. We all know that kempachi wants to enjoy his fights, we all just didn't know to what extent this affected him. Basically the power discrepansies we have seen in kenpachi are ultimately not just kubo's nonsense but there is something actually behind this. If we consider the translation then kenpachi not only kenpachi does not know how to control his own power and actively tries to lower it to match his enemies but he also subconsciously could be making it so that even his max output matches his enemy. The armor thing rather than a special quality I would argue is more about the sheer volume of reiatsu he has. We have seen people block attacks barehanded before, namely aizen and ichigo. The reason for this is solely the clashing of the reiatsu's and those guys having the stronger one. Kenpachi was able to block a espada's zampakuto with his arm, this goes to show his hidden power really is insane. In terms of sheer reiatsu alone he could perhaps currently match pretty much anyone if we hold what the novel says as truth. And he does not even know his zampakuto's name.

    ---------- Post added at 12:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal Black View Post
    Kenpachi's actually in constant shikai release state, much like Ichigo and possibly Isshin(undetermined) as of now.
    To me the whole thing is rather ambiguous. I mean, at the start kenpachi did not consider his own zampakuto to be an individual, just a thing. If he says his zampakuto does not have another form it does not necessarily mean it is in shikai in this context. Even what yoruichi said... why would she know? Kenpachi to begin with did not care about the sword. As far as she knew that could be shikai. Even if the sword is actually in a released state right now, what does it matter? All this would tell us is that his relation with his sword is so atrocious that he could not communicate with his active shikai. As I have pointed out before, his sword and himself actively hurt each other during battle. Ultimately, even if the sword is in released state the fact that he does not know its name has the severe implication that kenpachi cannot by any means use its true power. Back when ichigo first mastered getsuga tensho he was initially able to do only insignificant cuts (a flashback when he was fighting byakuya shows this). Then zangetsu pointed out that knowing the name made a huge difference and suddenly his GT turned into a cliff maker or something. If the same logic applies to kenpachi then not knowing the name of his sword has the implication that he can't possibly use his true power. Heck, at least on two occasions ichigo has boosted his power significantly merely from improving his relationship with his sword.

    I do doubt there is an implication of kenpachi having transcendental power though. The whole thing has been shown twice by now, by aizen and ichigo. Aizen got it through the orb and ichigo was born godlike apparently. The transcendental power would be something pretty much from another world, as far as we know kenpachi is just a shinigami.

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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    If the info is true an Ken-chan can adjust his Reiatsu level to the level of his opponent, then he can win the current War or at least make a huge difference just by his presense in a fight. And I believe he can take at least two or three Sternenritter during the War.

    P.S. Now we can also measure the power of Yami. As many of the members said that he couldn't be the strongest Espada, but he managed to fight for quite some time against Byakuya in Banaki and Ken at the same time and we understand now how strong this combo is.

  11. #160
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    Re: [FEATURED] Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Quote Quote:
    ZARAKI's TRUE POWER LEVEL

    I really don't want to be the negative person here but I really think that Kubo should not had made this canon. I'm a Kenpachi fan, I love that guy so I had to make this post.

    Firstly, it completely erases my awesome image of Kenpachi, how he was able to enjoy battling and how strong he is but not god like strong because then it would be pretty pointless.


    Quote Quote:
    there are total 4 levels of secrets

    first level is the easiest, he expected every reader to be able to notice it
    the second level is a bit harder, about 1 in 4 people to 1 in 10 people can notice it
    the third level is even harder, probably only 1 in a thousand can see though it
    Since when was Bleach under the mystery section? This makes no sense at all. Did people calling the aizen twist brilliant got over his head and Bleach became a mystery story? I'm pretty sure that kubo's attempts at twists after that was pretty negatively received, an example would be "Espadas are 0 to 9!"

    Quote Quote:
    but his special ability (or should i say handicap) is to automatically adjust his power level to his opponents, so he'll enjoy the fight longer.
    Is that shikai or bankai? Or fullbring? Or is it just normal special ability? Come on.
    In Bleach every ability had a reason. The espadas were able to blast ceroes because they are hollows and Aizen was able to troll everyone because of his shikai.
    What is special ability supposed to mean when Kenpachi has no shikai and bankai? You don't just give your characters special ability outside of the rules we learnt.

    Quote Quote:
    zaraki's riatsu severs as a defensive armor that protect him from all sorts of hax
    This is astonishing. This is the superman theory right here, Kenpachi just became superman, there's no point worrying about him in battles anymore thanks to this. This killed the tension off in all Kenpachi's battles in the future.

    Quote Quote:
    when zaraki's fighting him, zaraki's strength at the moment is so strong that he could easily blow away baragan's respia and stark's wolves.
    Using stark and barragan to compare with Kenpachi doesn't make him any stronger when you just said that his spiritual pressure protects him from all haxes, kubo. You are just degrading stark and barragan. You might as well say that the vandenrich powers combined together have no effect on him.

    Quote Quote:
    oh, and the amount of riatsu his eye pad now absorbs is 10 times more than before the time skip...
    Then I assume that Mayuri knows about this. 10 times? Why bother creating an eye pad that can absorbs 10 times more when

    Quote Quote:
    but his special ability (or should i say handicap) is to automatically adjust his power level to his opponents, so he'll enjoy the fight longer.
    It's a contraction.

    Quote Quote:
    His bankai “饿乐廻廊” ability is to destroyed/crushed all living things and non living things within the area of certain radius ( several times bigger than Karakura Town).
    But once he have use it, he can’t release it within half a year
    Is this not the certain ability of a certain espada that we all know? Breath that erases everything? A powerful hax that has a scope that can erase everything? A touch that can eradicate all?

    Wow, the wind power thing...the merging with SS thing...I don't even know where to start, it's just horrible fanfiction material right there.

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  13. #161
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    Re: [FEATURED] Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    The only problem with Zaraki is the fact he only fights to enjoy the battle he hasn't exactly fought to kill and anyone he faces and beats to a pulp he leaves with a slight hint of life in them, its hard to say weither Kenny will be a force to be reckoned with this arc or if he's going to end up helping out VR without realising it..... To say if he is stronger then Azien or Yamamoto is a easy one. Not Yet!!!, he has some serious potential i mean if whats said about his reistu increasing depending on the person he's fighting then he could eventually become a CC class captain, with some serious training he may eventually learn his Zan's name and possibly even achieve Shikai, i do have a feeling that he is going to under go some sort of training to help him achieve this, but weither its before SS crumbles or after remains to be seen.... Could he have beaten Azien Before he fused with the Hyogoku yes i truely believe so, why?! Well we have all seen just how much Kenny can actually improve during battles let alone that but there's this speculation that his Reistu increases to that of the enemies, that being said Zaraki has a nack for being beaten to a pulp only to find the weakness of his enemies..... And i think Azien's weakness was his over confidence, yes he was smart, but a full frontal assault from Zaraki would have annihilated him and he knew it.... But Kenpachi stronger then Yamamoto i doubt it Zaraki has a tendency to get hit too much, if he was to take a Yama blast he would be crispy fried Zaraki
    Spoiler show

  14. #162
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 496 Discussion/ 497 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    I believe we can't really say that Kenpachi is in Shikai. I believe until he learns the name of his Zan he is somewhere between sealed form and Shikai, hence the power of his Shikai isn't even a half of what it should be. So when he learns the name of his Zanpaktou he will have a propper Shikai and then he will really kick asses and may become way more difficult opponent for such people as Sternenritter or strong Captains like Ukitake, Shunsui or even to the likes of Aizen and Yama.
    Kenpachi is confirmed to in shikai. However, due to him not knowing the name of his zanpaktou, his shikai state does more harm then good because Ken's SP and his zanpaktou's SP is colliding against each other

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    The situation with zaraki's shikai is at best similar to the situation between ichigo and zangetsu when he first met zaraki. Ichigo might have had shikai but he did not understand that his weapon was more than a weapon, he was not using a shred of its actual power nor his own. Zaraki should be in a plain worst situation. He does not know the name of his sword, he does not have a relationship with it, he did not even think it was more than an object before his fight with ichigo. The way I see it, the possibility of zaraki using half of its powers should be non existent, he does not know the name so he is not using a shred of it. Best case scenario the two of them do not hurt each other when fighting anymore.

    Now, from what I gather this is not a situation of kubo making the novel cannon. Rather than that the situation is that the author of the novel actually made sense of bits and pieces of evidence left by kubo in the story. Of course, this implies that zaraki has just the exact amount of power he needs to win every battle to some extent.

  16. #164
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    The post above about Kenpachi's demi-god mode sounds to me like some crazed fiction written by an obsessed fan. It's just too much.

    Bleach got ruined when Kubo brought in all these transcendental beings and power levels of grand scale. He should have just stuck to SS level fighters and make fights more enjoyable through strategy and intellect.

  17. #165
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Well, from the translation it seems the transcendental thingy is actually fairly different from what kenpachi has going for him. What has been posted merely suggests kenpachi has an stupid amount of plain old reiatsu, he simply does not use it. The transcendental thingy has to do with inherently superior rieatsu which measly mortals cannot even properly perceive nor fight against, something which is from a different dimension altogether.

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