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Thread: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

  1. #166
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    Re: [FEATURED] Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    I guess Raizen is referring to this:

    Quote Quote:
    and finally, in the final bout between zaraki and the 8th kenpachi, none of the other spectators were able to sense their riatsu, which may suggests that both zaraki and 8th kenpachi are at transcendent level (at least in this final moment)
    Well, I take Aizen's boasts in his new forms with a grain of salt. I don't see any reason for normal shinigami not to be able to reach high reiatsu levels, so high that other shinigami can't sense it. We haven't seen the bankai of really strong shinigami and we have no idea about the true extent of their reiatsu output, I believe it's not out of the realm of possibilities that tremendously strong shinigami like Yamamoto or Kenpachi can reach similar levels when they go all out. I have a feeling that Kubo will elaborate on this concept in later stages of the manga.

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  3. #167
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    Re: [FEATURED] Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeltrax View Post


    Then I assume that Mayuri knows about this. 10 times? Why bother creating an eye pad that can absorbs 10 times more when
    Think of it like this, without his eyepatch he's fighting his foe at a 1-1 ratio, with his eyepatch on perhaps he's fighting his foe at a 1-2 ratio. Now that it's absorbing more of his reaitsu you could say he's fighting at a 1-10 ratio or 1-20 ratio which means he's either fighting with 5-10% of his reaitsu compared to 50% of his reaitsu before the timeskip.

    Remember when Kenpachi was fighting ichigo and he took off his eyepatch the reason why he overflowed with such reaitsu is because of ichigo's potential, it's most likely the strongest Kenpachi has ever felt in a fight and it may even be a unique trait that Kenpachi has to bring out the strongest in a foe. When kenpachi showed his reaitsu it may have triggered Ichigo's own Reaitsu to overflow and focus the way it did, from that point it showed that even though they may be equal in reaitsu because ichigo is more in tune with his Weapon he was able to transcend his attack to a higher form compared to Kenpachi's attack even though they did both lay quite a powerful attack on one another.
    Last edited by TheWanderer; June 20, 2012 at 02:51 AM.

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  5. #168
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    Re: [FEATURED] Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, the whole thing about kenpachi's reiatsu makes sense if explained that way. We all know that kempachi wants to enjoy his fights, we all just didn't know to what extent this affected him. Basically the power discrepansies we have seen in kenpachi are ultimately not just kubo's nonsense but there is something actually behind this. If we consider the translation then kenpachi not only kenpachi does not know how to control his own power and actively tries to lower it to match his enemies but he also subconsciously could be making it so that even his max output matches his enemy. The armor thing rather than a special quality I would argue is more about the sheer volume of reiatsu he has. We have seen people block attacks barehanded before, namely aizen and ichigo. The reason for this is solely the clashing of the reiatsu's and those guys having the stronger one. Kenpachi was able to block a espada's zampakuto with his arm, this goes to show his hidden power really is insane. In terms of sheer reiatsu alone he could perhaps currently match pretty much anyone if we hold what the novel says as truth. And he does not even know his zampakuto's name.

    I do doubt there is an implication of kenpachi having transcendental power though. The whole thing has been shown twice by now, by aizen and ichigo. Aizen got it through the orb and ichigo was born godlike apparently. The transcendental power would be something pretty much from another world, as far as we know kenpachi is just a shinigami.
    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, from the translation it seems the transcendental thingy is actually fairly different from what kenpachi has going for him. What has been posted merely suggests kenpachi has an stupid amount of plain old reiatsu, he simply does not use it. The transcendental thingy has to do with inherently superior rieatsu which measly mortals cannot even properly perceive nor fight against, something which is from a different dimension altogether.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    I guess Raizen is referring to this:



    Well, I take Aizen's boasts in his new forms with a grain of salt. I don't see any reason for normal shinigami not to be able to reach high reiatsu levels, so high that other shinigami can't sense it. We haven't seen the bankai of really strong shinigami and we have no idea about the true extent of their reiatsu output, I believe it's not out of the realm of possibilities that tremendously strong shinigami like Yamamoto or Kenpachi can reach similar levels when they go all out. I have a feeling that Kubo will elaborate on this concept in later stages of the manga.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWanderer View Post
    Think of it like this, without his eyepatch he's fighting his foe at a 1-1 ratio, with his eyepatch on perhaps he's fighting his foe at a 1-2 ratio. Now that it's absorbing more of his reaitsu you could say he's fighting at a 1-10 ratio or 1-20 ratio which means he's either fighting with 5-10% of his reaitsu compared to 50% of his reaitsu before the timeskip.

    Remember when Kenpachi was fighting ichigo and he took off his eyepatch the reason why he overflowed with such reaitsu is because of ichigo's potential, it's most likely the strongest Kenpachi has ever felt in a fight and it may even be a unique trait that Kenpachi has to bring out the strongest in a foe. When kenpachi showed his reaitsu it may have triggered Ichigo's own Reaitsu to overflow and focus the way it did, from that point it showed that even though they may be equal in reaitsu because ichigo is more in tune with his Weapon he was able to transcend his attack to a higher form compared to Kenpachi's attack even though they did both lay quite a powerful attack on one another.
    This is pretty much exactly what I meant. Kenpachi has ridiculous reiatsu levels that only gather steam the more powerful his opponent is. And he indeed shows similair qualities in this regard to Ichigo. They have a lot in common when looking at reiatsu and the lack of control. This lack of fine control is obvious in the constant release type Shikai they both have, they seem to be unique in this regard. As Kenpachi put it, his reiatsu is so scikeningly high that he can't force his Zan to seal because his reiatsu cannot be surpressed that way. He said this during his fight with Ichigo. Ishinn on the other hand has perfect control over his Zanpakuto, as he demonstrated to Grand Fisher. Point is, Ichigo and Kenpachi probably have similair maximum reiatsu levels, the highest in the series. I'm guessing the cause for these reiatsu anomalies will be explained in the future.
    It will be scary to look at them at full power, because when Ichigo tapped into his full reiatsu he smacked Aizen around like a common housefly. If Kenpachi is of the same breed, and everything seems to point that way, it makes complete sense for him to reach a reiatsu level that was so much higher than the observing Shinigami that they could not sense it. Aizen calling this "transcendant" is an entirely seperate matter. It's about the relative reiatsu gap here.

    Their lack of fine tuned control, as caused by the sheer enormity of their reiatsu, is the number one reason for the crazy power fluctuations of BOTH, as is described by Ulquiorra and seen in both their battles.
    Last edited by Smerten; July 13, 2012 at 10:13 AM.

  6. #169
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Quote Quote:
    This is pretty much exactly what I meant. Kenpachi has ridiculous reiatsu levels that only gather steam the more powerful his opponent is. And he indeed shows similair qualities in this regard to Ichigo. They have a lot in common when looking at reiatsu and the lack of control. This lack of fine control is obvious in the constant release type Shikai they both have, they seem to be unique in this regard. As Kenpachi put it, his reiatsu is so scikeningly high that he can't force his Zan to seal because his reiatsu cannot be surpressed that way. He said this during his fight with Ichigo. Ishinn on the other hand has perfect control over his Zanpakuto, as he demonstrated to Grand Fisher. Point is, Ichigo and Kenpachi probably have similair maximum reiatsu levels, the highest in the series. I'm guessing the cause for these reiatsu anomalities will be explained in the future.
    It will be scary to look at them at full power, because when Ichigo tapped into his full reiatsu he smacked Aizen around like a common housefly. If Kenpachi is of the same breed, and everything seems to point that way, it makes complete sense for him to reach a reiatsu level that was so much higher than the observing Shinigami that they could not sense it. Aizen calling this "transcendant" is an entirely seperate matter. It's about the relative reiatsu gap here.

    Their lack of fine tuned control, as caused by the sheer enormity of their reiatsu, is the number one reason for the crazy power fluctuations of BOTH, as is described by Ulquiorra and seen in both their battles
    Finally someone that makes sense, Kenpachi Himself said that ichigo and him are of the same type and they love to fight, But at the time ichigo did not accept the fact that he loves to fight.
    Probably due to Ichigo still being a kid,kenpachi being alive for more than 100years understand the he loves and enjoys fight to the death.
    If this Novel is true then Kenpachi and IChigo are 2/5 war potentials.

    1. Ichigo
    2. Kenpachi
    3. Yama
    4. Aizen
    5. Unknown

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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    I doubt Kenpachi's strength adjusts to match his opponent. I think he willingly only uses just enough strength to make the fight fun for him. He will not use enough strength to win, just enough so that the opponent can hurt him a bunch. And so he usually just ends up winning because the opponent can't handle the exchange of blows anymore.

    I'm not sure how he would deal with Aizen. I want to say Aizen's mind control stuff would deal with Kenpachi easily, but then again, Kenpachi could very well just overpower it with his own spiritual pressure somehow. I don't know.

    Either way, I don't see how the Quincies can deal with him. He has no Bankai to steal, and he doesn't need one anyway. I guess we'll see.

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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrs View Post
    I doubt Kenpachi's strength adjusts to match his opponent. I think he willingly only uses just enough strength to make the fight fun for him. He will not use enough strength to win, just enough so that the opponent can hurt him a bunch. And so he usually just ends up winning because the opponent can't handle the exchange of blows anymore.

    I'm not sure how he would deal with Aizen. I want to say Aizen's mind control stuff would deal with Kenpachi easily, but then again, Kenpachi could very well just overpower it with his own spiritual pressure somehow. I don't know.

    Either way, I don't see how the Quincies can deal with him. He has no Bankai to steal, and he doesn't need one anyway. I guess we'll see.
    If that was the case, he could have pumped up his reiatsu against Nnoitra instead of relying on his kendo, he didn't want to die. If his reiatsu jumped, his defences would jump too. He chose the one shot kendo, wich would've derived less pleasure from the fight. My point is that Kenpachi cannot control his reiatsu, as stated by himself. So it's weird for him to be able to lower it at will since he cannot seal his Zanpakuto and all. Why do you think he wears the eyepatch which, after the timeskip, absorbs even 10 times as much reiatsu?

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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    I didn't say that he adjusted his reiatsu, but that he adjusts how much strength he uses. A good example is what you mentioned: he decided to use two hands against the 5th espada. But the blow was too strong for his opponent to take. So by strength, I didn't exactly mean reiatsu. Although, he does try and reduce that by wearing the eye patch. But he does other things, too, like wearing the bells, only using one hand, giving his opponent free shots, and so on.

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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    He's overrated but that doesn't mean he actually isn't very strong indeed. I dunno why people expect his power to jump drastically if he got a Ban Kai or something though. His powers don't work like that.

    Now recently Spirits Are Always With You shed some light on him, and even though I don't consider these books canon, Kubo did say they included some ideas he already had in his head for the manga. So some details might become canon later. The power-increasing-eyepatch thing makes a lot of sense to me. Its like Zaraki is always training himself even when he isn't fighting. Its like how the Sanrei glove worked for Ishida. He was training his spirit-absorbing power constantly, to the point where it was extremely difficult to even fire a single normal arrow at first. We saw what happened when he took off that thing. Similar logic applies to Zaraki. By constantly draining his reiatsu he's training it and raising his "ceiling". Whenever he takes it off he's stronger than the last time he took it off.

    As for Zaraki vs Aizen. Him matching Aizen in terms of strength/reiatsu isn't much of a stretch. But he has absolutely no chance cause Aizen is so much more than reiatsu. Ken would never lay a hand on him to begin with since he's insanely fast. And Kyouka Suigetsu means he's doomed. Yamamoto couldn't fight Aizen properly and he's much stronger than Ken. Thats how stupidly broken KS is.

  11. #174
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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    I think there's no reason to assume Kenpachi wouldn't benefit from bankai as much as any other shinigami does. The way I see it, bankai is a weapon/device that a shinigami can fill with his/her reiatsu. Since Kenpachi has lots of reiatsu, we can expect his bankai to have devastating effects. I guess whether his bankai suits his style or not is one of the main concerns, Kenpachi would probably never use an ability like Aizen's because he likes to go toe to toe with his enemies. But if he had a bankai like Soifon's, I suppose it would destroy anyone provided that he could manage to hit his opponent.

    I believe Kenpachi has finally communicated with his zanpakuto during the past 17 months. He and his zanpakuto were working against each other which was cutting down his strength considerably. They may be in harmony now which explains why he seems even stronger than before. He's now wearing a different eyepatch which I believe to be an enhanced version and he's killing opponents without any effort. Perhaps Kubo made Kenpachi fight the King because anyone lesser would have big trouble against him. The SRs he killed may be on the weak side but I don't think they were so weak that they were fodder against captains. Fighting them at the same time without taking off his eyepatch and winning with minimal damage suggest that Kenpachi is a considerable force.

    Can Kenpachi reach combat abilities of Yamamoto or Aizen? Doubtful. But at his peak, I guess he can give anyone a run for their money with his enormous stamina and strength.

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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    The reason I don't think his Ban Kai would change his strength (and I mean non-eyepatch strength) that much is because his reiatsu is on full blast already. The reason other people get big powerups with Ban Kai is because their reiatsu is suppressed. So it goes up for Shi Kai, which is initial release. Release of reiatsu. Then goes up a lot with Ban Kai, which is final release. But Ken doesn't have anything to release once his patch is off cause its all coming out already.

    Ichigo's reiatsu doesn't increase in Ban Kai either. Cause he's like Kenpachi. Thats not to say Ken can't get considerably stronger overall though. Cause Tensa Zangetsu makes Ichigo much faster, which has the added effect of greatly increasing the power of his sword attacks. Combine these two things and we can say Ichigo is much stronger overall than in Shi Kai, even though his reiatsu hasn't gone up. So I think Ken will get a Shi Kai ability that will make him even more dangerous than he is now.

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    Re: Kenpachi: Possibly Stronger than Aizen and Yamamoto? Or just overrated?

    As far as I understand neither bankai or shikai have an effect on how much reiatsu the user has. Basically, the amount of power remains constant between them. What bankai does is actually consume way more reiatsu than what a shinigami ordinarily could. So what we are talking about with bankai kenpachi is him having a large weapon with a huge scale which consumes way more reiatsu than anything he has. I would think this is completely different from merely releasing all of your reiatsu. In kenpachi, who with his reiatsu alone has been shown fighting at the level of bankai or resurreccion, it would be brutal and overwhelming at the very least.

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