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Thread: Discussion on the shortcomings of Bleach's plot and pace

  1. #1
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member silvermane's Avatar
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    Yikes Discussion on the shortcomings of Bleach's plot and pace

    bleach was fun and was really racy for quite some time... from the time rukia got taken away to the time ichigo became a vizard but once the heuco mundo arc started the story has started to drag and the only character undergoing any sort of development seems to be ichigo.... sado has not had any change except taht his hits became more powreful since the first arc , renji has had a bankai since fighting byakuya , rukia always had powers but only got to use them now but does not even have a bankai and hitsugaya has been using the same skills since for ever.... not to mention the fact tht no one else that we know of became vizard or anything else for that matter..... ichigo matched up to the shinigami captains in the first arc... and he's still developing.... sounds a lot like dbz to me where only goku and vegeta were developing and they had to bring in new villains to keep them busy... and eventually they started making really lame ones like buu and brolly....
    hope bleach wont go the same way.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    Well as long as the Winter Wars don't suck ass I'm happy.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member gigantor21's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    Well, you've pretty much hit it on the head. That lack of overall development within the cast is yet another reason this arc is canon-filler--considering how rushed and happenstance things have been, I don't think Kubo had the room to come up with anything.

    Hell, even Ichigo's development is pretty suspect; where did that random boost in power come from? Keying into his instincts? He didn't even bother explaining it, because I'm sure he and the editors knew we'd be happy if Ichigo wasn't getting his ass kicked. It all just feels like a play-for-time move.

    ...WTF is Aizen smiling about? XD

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impel Down's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    Well, the Grimmjow v. Ichigo thing was slow, but that's because a lot of emphasis was being put into the fight, since it was a major battle for Ichigo. Also, it's moving slow because it's mostly all fights this arc so far, but there are developments within the fights.

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    MH's Most High Quality Poster 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member earthforge's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    The reason for the extra long Grimmjow vs. Ichigo fight could also be to emphasize that it is the final fight between the two and it will not be interrupted. And the flashback sequences were methods of including more information about hollows, similar to when readers learned about Kenpachi's background and Asauchi (sp?). They only got interrupted in the aftermath, but that was an attempt to make a fast scene switch to Noitora.

    There are tiny developments, but as soon as the cast obtains them, they die (i.e. Chad got arm of the devil, suspected to be killed by Noitora.) And the arc is more morbid and slower than the SS arc because Orihime was undergoing mental and physical torture, so the characters were trying to get to her as fast as possible. Orihime's pain and the espada's strength are grossly underlined in this arc. Therefore all of the character's in question (the "dead" ones) were meant to be killed. Aizen did not really care when they intruded, proving that he trusted his espada to "wipe them out." So in the end, all the characters will get ownt no questions asked. Then some kind of random theory will occur, and we're on to the WW.
    Avatar © Chelsea Gordon, author of Not Quite Normal.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member LongShot's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    I agree that when talking about development, HM arc really sux till now....characters like Renji and Ishida even after have trained a lot had NO chance to demonstrate "how far they got" till now... a whole arc just to show Ishida's new weapon and Renji's suicide attack?...come on!

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member matrice's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    Yes, I espected much more from Ishida at least: I thought that maybe he could have been at Ichigo's level now. Chad has developed quite a bit: he was able to keep up to the arrancar sonido and he learned something about his powers: if he wouldn't have gone into HM he wouldn't know that they are hollow-based. The thing that pisses me off the most is that Ishida and Chad were supposed to be super powerful in HM due to the atmosphere dense of spiritual particles, but they don't seem to take advantage of it very much.
    The arc was used to resolve the Ichigo vs GJ fight too: the author clearly wanted to resolve it when Ihcigo was still at GJ level, more or less. Probably during the WW Ichigo will become one of the most poverful characters and will beat Aizen and the top espadas, so it will be impossible to have a serious fight with someone who is ranked only at the sixth place.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    I agree this arc has pretty much sucked except for when it got to Grimmjow, Ichigo, and Ulquiorra. I still don't like how it doesn't explain how he held his mask on for so long, or the small power boost he seemed to get from Orihime yelling at him. Although I think the vaizards will explain why he was able to hold on to it for so long when he gets back.

    I'm going to be pissed if Noitora turns out to be the 5th espada.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    i don't think it's really any slower than usual. maybe it's just the complete lack of storyline in the current arc

    it's still fun and it may have felt dragged because the fight between ichigo and grimmjow had been anticipated for quite a long time.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    Quote Originally Posted by gigantor21 View Post
    Well, you've pretty much hit it on the head. That lack of overall development within the cast is yet another reason this arc is canon-filler--considering how rushed and happenstance things have been, I don't think Kubo had the room to come up with anything.

    Hell, even Ichigo's development is pretty suspect; where did that random boost in power come from? Keying into his instincts? He didn't even bother explaining it, because I'm sure he and the editors knew we'd be happy if Ichigo wasn't getting his ass kicked. It all just feels like a play-for-time move.
    isnt that powerboost because shirosaki took over ichigo for the fight against grimjow (mostly that is), the vaizards kept explaining ichigo he should rely on his hollow powers as he did on his shinigami powers (he should devour his hollow and use them to win even if he needs to take over), I must admit i didnt like that ichigo didnt go to his inner world have a fight/talk with his inner hollow to let him finish grimjow. Personaly i do hope there will be a few chapters with flashbacks on the vaizard training where they actualy changed ichigo into trusting his hollow.

    on the Chado he developed quite abit, he found out that his powers where hollow, he achieved a new arm and finaly he learned the true form his already achieved hand. Do you guys call 3 levels in development barely anything? Chad was unfortunate to run in against (probably) a high level espada.

    Quote Quote:
    sounds a lot like dbz to me where only goku and vegeta were developing and they had to bring in new villains to keep them busy... and eventually they started making really lame ones like buu and brolly....
    so you dont want more stronger villains? If that is the case the series has no reason to continue unless you like seeing ichigo kill low level hollows or fighting against the shinigami cause he is a vaizard. All series like bleach/naruto/DBZ do need keep getting stronger/smarter villains if they want to continue, keep in mind its the writer his job to continue and get money aslong as they can out off a serie till it dies always been like that...
    Last edited by Richo; August 16, 2007 at 12:10 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member gigantor21's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    ^ There was no indication that Shirosaki took over. If that was the case, then it was intermittent at best--and Ichigo would've gotten skewered by the Descaguron claws. On top of that, all of Shirosaki's entrances are both abrupt and exceedingly violent. To be able to use that level of power, without completely losing his identity, shows that Ichigo was the one in control.

    But that's just it. How did he get in control? He didn't have any time to train after Grimmjow-Ichigo II, and an Inner World boost after Ichigo-Ulquiorra should've been addressed by now. It doesn't make sense to not explain such an important plot point.

    With Chad, seeing that growth in power was beautiful, but he's still going to be second string to Ichigo and the Vaizards. So it basically doesn't count, especially when you consider how quickly Noritora (and Kubo) brought him down to Earth. It's just another example of how bad Kubo is at utilizing the great supporting cast, as someone on another forum put it.

    ...WTF is Aizen smiling about? XD

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Richo's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    `
    Quote Quote:
    ^ There was no indication that Shirosaki took over. If that was the case, then it was intermittent at best--and Ichigo would've gotten skewered by the Descaguron claws. On top of that, all of Shirosaki's entrances are both abrupt and exceedingly violent. To be able to use that level of power, without completely losing his identity, shows that Ichigo was the one in control.
    I do believe that since ~chapter 282 page 7 or 8 shirosaki took over from ichigo as ichigo his personality totaly changed from smooth fighting to agressive fighting and insulting his opponent (wich is typicaly shirosaki), although it seems ichigo showed behaviour typical to shirosaki i believe he also was in control himself. I try to say that they were both in control fighting together against grimmjow (ichigo claimed to do this also back in the kenpachi fight, this could be a similair thing)

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member gigantor21's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    ^ Oh, okay. That makes a lot more sense--and their fighting together is something I've wanted to see since they got the mask. But I still feel like Kubo should've been more overt with it; I don't know if he's trying to build suspense or what, but for now it just seems like Ichigo was handed more power to beat Grimmjow.

    ...WTF is Aizen smiling about? XD

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member silvermane's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    fact is there is no shirosaki no more..... its been molded into ichigos mind ...
    but the fun part was that all the fights and character development was done in the first arc...
    we liked andknew each and every character then.... even the mad and raving kenpachi zaraki had some character development... even tousen and renji ( who was a side char then ) was well developed...
    now its just random characters fighting in random places and having power boosts for no apparent reason ....
    and they keep talking about winter wars as if it was already decided that they'd only proceed with the story in winter... i guess we'll have have patience till october and hope that the story does not get obtuse by then.... :P

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member alias85's Avatar
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    Bleach going under?

    Bleach is seriously lacking substance. Please give us a more developed story and less flashbacks. The action scenes are not enough to make this manga a top 5, even 10 anymore. It's starting to get real old Kubo. You can not create a dynamic plot just through the introduction of new villains, and power ups which is what Kubo is primarily doing. The damsel-in-distress scenario is also getting old. The first time was okay, but then I found myself realizing wait, so the first time Ichigo and co. break into Soul Society to save Rukia, now Ichigo and co. break into Hueco Mundo to save Orihime with all the flashbacks and zanpakutou gimmicks included?

    What you guys think? I think Kubo needs to take some notes from Oda.

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