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Thread: Discussion on the shortcomings of Bleach's plot and pace

  1. #16
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Bleach going under?

    Agreed. The only thing Ive enjoyed is finding out the history of Urahara and company, the Vizards, and Aizen and crew. Other than that, the whole arc has basically just been a friggin UFC tournament with flashbacks in-between.

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    Re: Bleach going under?

    they pretty much wasted the last chapter settin up the fites

    i woulda of prefered 1 panel for all (except for the stark bit) to clash their swords n begin the fite

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Raimaru's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach going under?

    In my opionion the long action fights were like poison. I think Bleach lost much depth. Also, I'm not satisfied with Ichigo's abilities, Rukia's screen time and importance, Orihime's screentime (which should be reduced), Sado's lack of power.
    Also the role of hollows has been modified in a way which I can't agree with.
    Kubo has to add some good, new stuff and change the importance of fighting and story/depth drastically to change this manga's quality back to normal.










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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    The story is advancing rather slowly but IMO that is because of the stupid amount of fights kubo is trying to squish into an arc.
    We have:
    VC and komamura vs Fraccion. 4.5 fights
    Rest of VC and Captains vs Espada and remaining fraccion. A lot of fights, too lazy to count
    Then we have the introduction of vizards.
    The return of captains from HM or whatever they are going to do now.
    W/E rukia, renji, chad and ishida are going to do now.

    If so many things are going to happen in the same weekly 19-20 page manga then obviously it is going to move at a slower rate. Right now we are facing a plot-character development tradeoff in which we are getting a lot of character development (seeing how we are seeing more of the abilities and personalities of many characters) and little plot movement.

  5. #20
    MH's Best Reviewer MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    I loved the Hueco Mundo stuff, that was probably my favorite part in the manga so far. The flash back was good too. This latest bit in the fake city is losing my interest though. I don't care how the soul society people fight, if they can't take on an espada they aren't worthy of screen time, i just want to get back to Ichigo and the all the cool characters who are stuck in Hueco Mundo.

    If it was just a few chapters i wouldn't care but this looks like it's going to go on forever, the espada haven't even started fighting yet.

    Once it gets back to Ichigo my interest will shoot right back up....i just hope that isn't to far away.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ryanzokuken's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richo View Post
    `
    I do believe that since ~chapter 282 page 7 or 8 shirosaki took over from ichigo as ichigo his personality totaly changed from smooth fighting to agressive fighting and insulting his opponent (wich is typicaly shirosaki), although it seems ichigo showed behaviour typical to shirosaki i believe he also was in control himself. I try to say that they were both in control fighting together against grimmjow (ichigo claimed to do this also back in the kenpachi fight, this could be a similair thing)
    Shirosaki has his own voice which is noticably different from Ichigo's.
    had he taken over, they would have made it more noticable and obvious. there's never been a "maybe he Shirosaki came." when he shows up, we know it for sure.

  7. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member redcometfm's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    Bleach could go back to how it used to be primarily with its pace. The pace of the VC-fraccion fights were very reminiscent of the pace (and almost the quality) of early Bleach chapters before and getting into SS arc. I think Kubo's material can work if he presents it in a faster yet reasonable pace.

    I realize its tough to keep things going every week and with new material but I dont think I needed that 5 page bullshit of Iba punching and lecturing Ikkaku. It could have been done in one page very simply with words. That whole Ikkaku-defiance and Iba-punch was just unneccessary. Kubo has plenty of more stories to keep Bleach going, he should not have to filler it up like this.

    Perhaps they should give him a week or two off, maybe even a month, where he can clear his head, relax and then properly plan out what he wants to do.

  8. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Darek Khort's Avatar
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    Re: IS bleach becoming morbid and slow?

    I think there's too many good guys. Too many fights with Kubo doing too many one-on-one's.
    The SS arc was great cause of its fast-pace, story, and because not everybody was fighting. For instance Ichigo took out 3 vice-captains within a few panels and not everybody was fighting everybody else.
    Plus, the characters were introduced and expanded on, and since nobody significant died when we moved on from the SS arc we wanted to know more about the different captains and vice-captains/etc of SS.

    With the HM arc we end up with everybody fighting everybody, and the enemy reveals everything about themselves before dying.
    The SS arc was also a lot more interesting for me mainly because there weren't perfect matchups, or at least not on the level of the HM arc.
    For instance Ichigo vs Kenpachi isn't a perfect match-up; Renji vs Byakuya isn't a perfect match-up; Uryu vs Mayuri wasn't a perfect match-up; Ichigo vs Renji wasn't a perfect match-up/etc.
    There really wasn't a situation where we felt the other side would have easily won against any other opponent but the one they fought.

    Right now we just get a hollow come up, reveal everything they have, and then die. That's kinda boring. There's no anticipation, no mystery. People are so interested in the SS captains and vice-captains, seated officers/etc because we HAVEN'T seen all that they have and because they haven't died yet. The only development I have seen so far is from Aizen and co with the flashback chapters. Other than that (and the two hanging bodies) we haven't got much development, or mystery waiting to be uncovered.
    Let some good guys die off Kubo so you can concentrate more on a few good guys. Right now the reverse is happening to the convention. There are more good guys than bad. Way more.
    (unless Aizen is secretly waiting for the Vizards to show up so he can use the Hogyoku on them and turn them into VLs...which would be a major plothole, but would even the scales a bit)
    Last edited by Darek Khort; October 17, 2008 at 07:43 AM.

  9. #24
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Kaiser Will's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach going under?

    Quote Originally Posted by alias85 View Post
    Bleach is seriously lacking substance. Please give us a more developed story and less flashbacks. The action scenes are not enough to make this manga a top 5, even 10 anymore. It's starting to get real old Kubo. You can not create a dynamic plot just through the introduction of new villains, and power ups which is what Kubo is primarily doing. The damsel-in-distress scenario is also getting old. The first time was okay, but then I found myself realizing wait, so the first time Ichigo and co. break into Soul Society to save Rukia, now Ichigo and co. break into Hueco Mundo to save Orihime with all the flashbacks and zanpakutou gimmicks included?

    What you guys think? I think Kubo needs to take some notes from Oda.
    I think that with a little help from Oda, Bleach can make some improvements.
    The first Arc of rescue Rukia was really great, but after that Bleach starting getting cold. Losing his charm, not make the readers surprise, anything.
    But Tite have to show samething before end the series, Ishin shinigami power, Urahara bankai, Yoruichi zanpakuto and others things.

  10. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Oblivion's Avatar
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    somethings not right...the story and its flow

    maybe i am just not getting it, or i am expecting tooo much, but to me something is not right with the flow of the manga.

    kubo set up soo much things.

    first we got to see some 'o.k.' fight in HM, but then captains show up, but what do we get, still the same hero is fighting well, villian takes the advatange in some way, the hero is about to fail, some kubo-ex-machine, hero takes teh advantage and wins.

    BUT THEN! a major plot device is set up to highten our intresst, Aizen makes his move, Kenpachi promises a showdown of the captains, Ichigo wants to finally beat the crap out of Ulqwhatever, and just as its all about to start, we get another plot device thrown inbetween to risen our intrest and anticipation for what is about to start, the pendulum arc, totally amazing we are thrilled to see, the vaizards and what their motive is now in the upcoming battle. ichigo after being sheered on by his friends stand before Ulq-too-hard-for-anyone-to-remember-how-to-spell. aizen brings upon his best fighters, old-man-yama stands guard with his bitch-ass captain crew.

    everything is setup up so amanzingly, but to me it all fall aparts, all the anitcipation vains away, the thrill gone. we get to see NOTHING AMAZING, nothing thrilling, not godlike....

    again 4 boring and typical fights, that follow the same advantage, disadvantage, kubo-ex-machina, win routine. all just to show us some good some boring Bankai's. NOTHING SPECIAL. and it just goes on. and even it yama-ji enters, its nothing special coz we now Eon has no chance against him.

    so why all the amazing setup and then such a let down. we wanted to see, aizen, the 3 espadas, the captains, ulq, ichigo, what the captains will do to get out, the vaizards, just what the hell the catgal and the shopguy are doing this time.

    but none of it. the whole setup for nothing. if something as great is not deliverd soon enough after all the great chapters, things will lose their appeal.

    i am really not happy with what i am reading the last months. its totally not what i expected NONE OF IT.

    just the same as last time kubo built so much anticipation with the two 2-blade guys (sorry forgot their names) and yama-ji. their swords were presented, and their characters were explored a little, i was so enthrilled to see the fight, but WHOOOPS: NONE OF IT. i still dont know why the 2-3 chapters were their for.
    and this time around i am thinking the same, just what were all the chapter and all the speeches there for???

    EXCUSE ME, i originally posted this thread in the wrong forum (bleach general forum) so please delete that one, it was a simple mistake, i am very sorry for the inconvinience
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  11. #26
    MH Senpai 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Gecko Moria's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion on the shortcomings of Bleach's plot and pace

    One problem with Bleach: People are seriously getting TOO strong.
    Examples: Rukia killing an Espada taht gad the power of over 30000 hollow
    All the captains conveniently coming into Hueco Mundo and all of them win their battles because they all conveniently fought the right opponent. Zommari could do anything against Byakuya because there were a million blades in his bankai. And Szayel Aporro couldnt kill Kurotsuchi cause he replaced all his internal organs with dummies.


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  12. #27
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Inkovic's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion on the shortcomings of Bleach's plot and pace

    There are several things wrong with Bleach right now. My main issues is when the Shinigami suddenly appeared in Hueco Mundo. It was a complete Deus Ex Machina move to have half of the Gotei 13 show up to take on the Espada.

    But when the fake Karakura town plot was introduced that was the greatest shortcoming. Boring, irrelevant battles. Same formula in conflict. It has clearly become the worst manga in jump right now in my opinion because even if you read in bulk the last 30 or so chapters are painful.

    Do I care about Vice-Captains? I don't. They are useless characters that don't deserve the amount of face time they've gotten over Ichigo. Do I hate Yamato, leader of the Shinigami? Yes I do because he's a boring, uninteresting character whose battle scenes are boring and doesn't do ANYTHING to further the plot.

    Its just one plot device after another in this manga, all poorly executed. I'm convinced that Kubo Tite cannot write. He's dragging this out because he doesn't know what's going to happen next. Ratehr than focus on the core group of protagonists such as Ichigo, Rukia, Chad, Uryuu, Orihime etc he developed characters with no substance behind them.

  13. #28
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Darek Khort's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion on the shortcomings of Bleach's plot and pace

    I stand by my original post, but now that I think about all that has happened since the end of the SS arc until now, I think that very soon (in half a year's time or so) we will be in for a huge surprise with some huge twist that will link everything together.
    These battles are quite drawn out, true. However, I believe that they are all linked somehow. Perhaps I still can't let go of the hope that Kubo will show us something amazing, but I truly believe that Kubo will show us something (most likely through Aizen) that links everything together. And we'll all be speechless when that happens.


    Until then though, we'll have to endure these fights (though the Top 3 Espada fights are bound to be interesting). I think we'll start getting more interested during Ichigo vs Ulq's fight. I can't help thinking that Ulq will reveal something interesting in his dying moments. Perhaps he'll say "You're too late" and then something happens to the real Karakura Town with Yammy involved. :O

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member TheOneElectric's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 356 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    You know what I just realized. Tite Kubo is an idiot not trying hard enough. Not for the obvious stuff either.
    Not for:
    The lack of background
    Shifting Power Levels
    Retarded Pacing
    No one dying when Swords are the main weapons


    All these things can be simply over looked. But when an author forgets his main character's hax powers...something is wrong. Ichigo's bankai is speed, it is faster than the flash step, and faster than sonido, yet I don't remember Ichigo moving super fast anytime after the Byakuya battle. And when he goes Vizard, his speed should double making him one of the fastest characters in the series, but no, Kubo forgets that Ichigo's bankai is speed and turns it into "Oh, it shoots black stuff a lot."

    I really hope Kubo remembers Ichigo is speed based...I really do
    Last edited by TheOneElectric; May 06, 2009 at 03:30 PM.
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  16. #30
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 356 Spoiler Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneElectric View Post
    You know what I just realized. Tite Kubo is an idiot.
    No need to insult the man directly. If I'd have to guess, I'd say that a lot of the silly stuff that happened wasn't on him but on editors and fan expectations.

    Heh
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