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I read this interesting theory on http://www.forosdz.com/foro/archive/...p/t-66147.html about the Uchiha clan. This is one of the best theories i've read about anything because it sounds very "complete". Tell me what you guys think about it. This was not written by me but was copied directly from the link mentioned above.
The container of "Suzaku": Uchiha Sasuke
Pride, superiority, arrogance, power. These are common traits of members of the "elite" Uchiha clan, once the enforcers of law among all of Konohagakure. But it is my belief that, for this power, the clan paid a price. Desperate to elevate the name of his clan above all others, one of the founding fathers of the Uchiha infiltrated a hidden shrine which was known the be the resting place of the phoenix "Suzaku". Inside he found nothing but a simple artifact, although he knew Suzaku was merely trapped inside, a prisoner of an ancient sealing technique. By slicing his hand, and touching the artifact with his blood and flesh, he was able to open a limited form of communication with Suzaku, and offered to free him from his imprisonment in exchange for a blessing of power bestowed upon his entire clan, both living and to be born. In truth, he knew of no way to shatter the seal upon the artifact and release Suzaku's physical form, but in the end Suzaku formulated it's own plan, and a pact was made. The Uchiha's would henceforth be blessed with the blood of Suzaku, giving them greater physical potential than any normal human, and better yet, the ability to awaken the doujutsu "Sharingan". In return, as the Uchiha's grew in power, so would Suzaku's influence and hold upon them. Eventually, when the perfect Uchiha was born, so too would Suzaku's spirit be reborn into the world, hidden away inside the body of the chosen - until those loyal to Suzaku could extract him from the body and release him upon the world once more. This in a nutshell, is the "original purpose" Itachi talks about. The Uchiha Clan was meant to re-release Suzaku upon the world, and being superior shinobi due to its blessing, no one could stop them once they were ready.
So, as we've seen with nearly all the Uchiha in the series, this man sought power more than anything, without regard to the consequences. It is the tragic flaw of the Uchiha.
"The only ones who can enforce the laws on shinobi's crimes...are superior shinobi." -Ch.220 Pg.12
"The Uchiha family trait is the manipulation of fire. The mind of an Uchiha..." -Ch.223 Pg.9 (Uchiha's are natural users of Katon jutsu, due to the influence of the phoenix in their blood)
"Your body is suitable for that eye...but it does not contain any of our blood."-Ch.141 (this is why Kakashi can never use the Sharingan to its fullest extent, he does not have the cursed blood of a true Uchiha. He is not the third Mangekyou user, and will never be able to obtain it)
(This doesn't have to be exactly how it happened for the theory to work, this is one part I just had to use my imagination on. The point is simply that the Uchiha clan made a pact with Suzaku at one point, and their abilities plus the sharingan are a direct result of demonic influence. The only odd thing you might find here is: how can Suzaku simply move from the artifact into a perfect Uchiha body? Well, I believe since Suzaku is a Phoenix type youma, perhaps it's not farfetched to consider it allowing itself to "die" in a way, only to be reborn from the ashes inside this new vessel.)
Years, likely centuries later, the Uchiha are a clan to be feared, and with each generation they only seem to grow stronger and stronger. One night, an elite shinobi even by the standards of the Uchiha, was visited by Suzaku in a dream. "Nakano shrine, on the far right side, under the 7th tatami mat..." Curious, the shinobi followed these vague directions and discovered a hidden meeting place, known only to the elders of the Uchiha clan, the keepers of the clan's dark secret. Here, the shinobi found texts hinting at an even greater power, as well as the true purpose of the Uchiha clan - to awaken Suzaku. That night, guided by his lust for power and newfound information, the shinobi murdered the one closest to him, and the first "Mangekyou Sharingan" was obtained. It is here that the common flaw in the Uchiha clan showed itself once again. The shinobi became angry and jealous after learning of this "perfect Uchiha", as well at the fact that the prestigious clan owed it's strength to a demon. The shinobi became disgusted with the clan as a whole, and left the village, but not before sharing the secret of the meeting place with his/her son - Uchiha Shisui.
The closest to the "perfect Uchiha" to ever grace the clan thus far, was Uchiha Itachi. He graduated from the academy in only one year, and was quickly inducted into the ANBU. Those that knew the secret of the clan watched him closely, thinking perhaps he may be the chosen Uchiha, and they would have to perform the extraction after a certain age. But then...
Uchiha Sasuke was born. This was the turning point. Suzaku's true spirit was no longer sealed inside the artifact, deep in that forgotten shrine. It was inside this boy, the perfect vessel. And yet, to Suzaku's dismay, it found that this boy's body was in a way, another prison. Although now at least, it could see the world through this boy instead of being trapped inside the shrine. And so, Suzaku waited. It waited and watched as the boy grew.
(At this point I consider Suzaku similar to Kyuubi, it's inside Sasuke and can watch everything that is happening to him, but not directly talk to or influence him. It is still imprisoned in a sense like Kyuubi is in Naruto, until the loyalists extract him.)
During Sasuke's childhood, Suzaku saw a glimmer of hope. A flaw in this boy's innocence, and a powerful tool. Sasuke was in a way, similar to that first Uchiha so long ago, with a great desire to prove himself and wear his clan symbol with pride. It was Sasuke's brother Itachi that first sparked this emotion in him, who constantly sought his Father's approval and attention, only to be thrown to the wayside under the shadow of Itachi. What at first started as innocent admiration for his brother's prowess, soon turned to jealousy, which came to border on the one thing Suzaku could use: hatred.
"I'm the barrier you must overcome, so you and I will continue to exist together, even if you hate me. That's what being an elder brother means." -Ch. 221 Pg.19
Due to the fact that Suzaku's influence over Sasuke was so small, no one suspected him as being the chosen Uchiha. They continued watching Itachi grow while his younger brother, though impressive in his own right simply did not seem to be of the same caliber as Itachi. The truth of the matter was that Sasuke actually held much more potential than Itachi, but Suzaku residing inside him held him back in the same way Kyuubi did Naruto before he learned to control it. Sasuke was still such a genius that it was hardly noticed, but it kept him from standing out and surpassing or at least matching Itachi's abilties at the same age. Despite this, Sasuke had a goal, and that was to surpass Itachi and gain approval from his father.
Itachi and Shisui were by now great friends, as we all know. Shortly after Itachi was appointed captain of the ANBU, he saw his best friend less and less. Shisui became isolated and depressed, and eventually sent word to Itachi requesting that he meet him on a specific night. While the rest of the clan were at a meeting, Itachi went to the place Shisui had directed him to in his letter...the Nakano Shrine. Here Shisui showed Itachi the secrets of the clan, the Mangekyou, Suzaku, everything. He then understood why Shisui had become depressed, he too felt a sudden disgust for his own clan. Shisui then explained to Itachi that he aimed to commit suicide because he felt such disgrace at being part of this demonic clan, but then decided he would allow Itachi to kill him if he wished to attempt to gain the Mangekyou Sharingan, but only if he would grant Shusui one request.
They made their way outside, to the banks of the Nakano River. Here Shisui spoke his final wish. He requested that Itachi completely wipe out the Uchiha Clan...
Whenever the elders discovered the container, they would unseal Suzaku and Konoha would be crushed, and afterwards Suzaku would be free to roam the world causing whatever destruction it pleased. Shisui told Itachi that he felt by completely ending their cursed bloodline, perhaps this would never occur. Itachi agrees, and kills Shisui. As we all know it's staged as a drowning. Itachi obtains the Mangekyou Sharingan. "Thanks to him, I was able to obtain this eye."
(When Itachi returns, you notice a glaring change in his personality. He's fed up with the clan as a whole, he feels that if the entire clans purpose is to exist until Suzaku can be released, then any of the Uchiha before the "chosen" were just pawns, trash. But he won't accept that, because he considers himself better than that. From this point on Itachi desires power over anything else, the classic Uchiha flaw.)
"My 'vessel'...is hopeless in this worthless clan." Ch.222 Pg.15 (He feels if he isn't the chosen one then he means nothing to the clan.)
"You forget what is most important to you because you're not letting go of a lesser thing: the clan. There is no room for change if rules and regulations, expectations and wishes, prevent it from happening." Ch.222 Pg.16
(At this point, after he's accused of killing Shisui and spouted off to his Father and the Police Force, you see that once Sasuke yells out to him, he immediately softens up, gets a very sad look on his face, and apologizes. Perhaps he was considering Shisui's request. I think Itachi honestly cares about Sasuke and doesn't want to kill him.)
It is during the time between now and the massacre of the clan that Itachi is contacted by the "Third Mangekyou User". I believe Shisui was still in contact with him/her and told them of his plan to allow Itachi to kill him for the Mangekyou. Shortly afterwards, this person returns to Konoha and secretly meets with Itachi. They tell him that the container of Suzaku is none other than Sasuke, but not only this, they inform him of the organization "Akatsuki". This brings everything full circle, Itachi learns about the technique that can transfer a demon from one host to another, joins Akatsuki, and his new goal is set. He will transfer Suzaku from Sasuke into his own body, and become the ultimate "vessel" of the Uchiha. However, if any of the elders of the clan find out Sasuke is the host, they can still extract it from him and release it.
The solution? Partially fulfill Shisui's request, and kill everyone BUT Sasuke. This way all those in Konoha who would wish to extract it are no longer a threat.
Itachi does so, he wipes out every single member of the clan leaving only 3 left. The 3 capable of using the Mangekyou Sharingan, which Itachi knows Sasuke must be able to now that he knows he is the chosen one. Now, it seems as though the host has to obtain a certain level of power before Akatsuki wants to extract it, they waited until Gaara was kage level, and they're still letting Naruto become stronger without worry. I think Itachi was informed of this as well, and that heightened emotion was the best way to awaken the youma's abilities in a container. (For Naruto it's protecting his precious people, for Gaara it was bloodthirst at first, but now also protecting his people, for Sasuke it is...HATRED.* More on this at the end of the post.)
This is why you always see Itachi mentioned hatred around Sasuke, he wants him to awaken the youma's power.
So, not only did Itachi remove those threats, but as we've seen it sent Sasuke down a spiral of revenge that has allowed him to obtain a much higher level of power than he would have normally. This is exactly what Itachi wanted. After this, he informs Sasuke of the secret meeting place in the Nakano Shrine, he wants Sasuke to see what he has seen. To see that the Uchiha clan were just pawns of a demon, and their prowess as shinobi was not even of their own making. The only words we see Sasuke speak after viewing these secrets are: "I see, so that's how it is..." 225 pg 12
underneath the nakano shrine:
(Notice the Phoenix images on the walls...)
Now, my opinion is that after reading this Sasuke assumes Itachi is the chosen one spoken of in the scripts, and that since the purpose of the clan was to produce him, the clans usefulness was at an end, and in his arrogance decided to test his strength by wiping them out. This is after all the excuse he gave Sasuke. Therefore, Sasuke grows up bent on revenge for his clan and without ever knowing it is actually he that contains Suzaku. He simply returns to his goal of surpassing Itachi, and resurrecting his clan with a true purpose.
If you're still with me, thanks for sticking with it and I'm almost finished. You recall whenever Naruto was near death he found himself able to see and speak to Kyuubi. Well, one major event for Sasuke that hasn't been revealed to us I think took place inside that barrel. When he had to "die" to complete his seal. At this point I think Sasuke was able to see Suzaku resting inside of him, and realize his vast untapped potential. You notice after this point Sasuke fully lets his darker side take over, and is the reason that even after realizing Naruto has an incredible hidden power of his own, he says, "I am more special than you." He has accepted his destiny at this point, and realizes he doesn't need the Mangekyou to defeat Itachi if he can learn to use the cursed seal in conjuction with Suzaku (which he did slightly by producing wings in his cursed state). So, he doesn't kill Naruto and decides to obtain power "in his own way".
"I'm different from you all... I can't be following the same path as you guys" Ch.181 Pg.12
That's pretty much it folks, he will keep this a secret from Orochimaru as his power grows, and when Oro attempts to perform the body stealing technique, most likely Suzaku will have something to say about it http://forums.narutofan.com/images/s...NF%20smile.gif. However, Sasuke is most likely "ripe" in terms of power, and Akatsuki may move to harvest Suzaku at anytime...
In conclusion, I think the theme of Sasuke's character is "Rebirth". His clan has been destroyed, but he will resurrect it. He has literally "died" inside the barrel, and was reborn with a better understanding of himself. And now metaphorically, Sasuke is falling into darkness but will rise from the ashes and redeem himself by the end.
That was a very interesting view point of the whole Uchiha clan and why Itachi killed them all.
Quote:Waiiii I am happy that I was not the only one to notice that! I always thought that it was some sort of obscure forshadowing that the images on the wall in the hidden shine showed people with wings.....and then during the fight I thought that it was rather odd that Sasuke had wings all of a sudden in his cursed state. Of course I thought that perhaps it was just my oft times over active imagination working again.....but there is someone else that thought it was odd too!Quote:
I really like the idea of Sasuke being the container for this Suzaku character....but at the same time where did this name come from? I dont think that something like that was ever mentioned in the manga. If it was can someone tell me? Or was it a name that was taken from history? It was already mentioned in the manga I really think that this theory is fascinating!
Oooo also before I forget and continue to ramble....the links that you posted no longer work. I think that it would be great to show a picture of that scene where Sasuke is in the hidden shrine.....
man thats some serious thinking...its possible...but we'll see!?!?!?!?
Well this was very thought out. It's the best info on sasu i've seen and it did answer some questions I had as to what happend to him after he came out of the barrel. To me that was a drastic change. Good view point lets see if it pans out
Very interesting theory. The only flaw in your logic that I can see is that if Itachi's goal was to aquire the Suzaku,and if Sasuke was indeed the container, he would be watching Sasuke instead of Naruto. Also if it's Itachi goal to be the strongest Uchiha in history then it follows logically that he would go after the nine tails since it's strongest bijuu.
very good ass theory but i think itachi is really after naruto'kybbe" so i guess tats where u might be wrong but it was really entertainin i liked wat i read so good job
Seems like the person you got it from ripped it and claimed it as his own theory. This is where it was originally posted, by Grave of the NarutoFan forums:
a very nice theory. I have one change I'd like to make.
The mangekyou sharingan, in my opinion, would be the mastery of the sharingan to the extent that you can bring your enemy into the chosen world of Suzaku, or bring that world down upon them. Tsukiyomi brings them into the world. Amaterasu casts the world upon them. So when the Mangekyou is released the power, the very essence of Suzaku is released and the chakra of the user is eaten as a kind of equivalent exchange, a passage fee if you will (gotta love fullmetal alchemist manga). Kakashi having seen Suzaku's essence, managed, through some miracle, to absorb and harness that power. This is why Kakashi can use the mangekyou. I also don't like the idea of any Uchiha being the container for the Suzaku, Perhaps in their blood a fragment of Suzaku remains, and Sasuke is the child who has inherited the most of that power. Being a container as well just makes him unfairly powerful. The manga would've been named Sasuke. but all and all it is very well thought out. I like it.
That theory was very very interesting. It answered some of the questions I had but would the training from Oro affect suzakuand make him as equally strong as Kyuubi
Some one pointed out before that the this theory was originally posted on NarutoFan and I managed to find this link in that thread http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ff/phoenix.png
Itachi was after Naruto because it was an order from Akatsuki. - The databook states "The order laid down to Itach is to get Narutos Kyuubi. For an exiled criminal who is rejected everywhere, he returns to the village to only fulfill orders."Originally Posted by Jammin
Nine tail is the strongest of the tailed beasts, but Suzaku is from a different plane altogether so you cannot directly compare them.
More proof of the theory
This fragment was taken from WIKIPedia.
(The reason Itachi killed his clan, and the reason he left only his brother Sasuke alive, still remains unclear. When questioned by Sasuke, he replied "To test my 'Utsuwa'." In Japanese, 'Utsuwa' (器) can mean "Vessel," or "Container," but it can also mean "Ability," or "Tool." Orochimaru uses this word to refer to the bodies he takes over with his Fushi Tensei no Jutsu ("Living Corpse Reincarnation"). In this respect, Itachi's words can mean anything from him having a past connection with Orochimaru, to him simply wanting to test his own power, or to his plans to join Akatsuki and forsake past relations. To make matters even more ambiguous, the first person pronoun Itachi used can also be used as a vulgar second person pronoun. So he could also have meant that he wanted to test Sasuke's 'Utsuwa,' although this is unlikely, given his previous remarks about his 'Utsuwa'.)
In the databook it also states "Hiding in the darkness, with those eyes that read the world, he waits for the right time."
Some people believe that the sealed demons can only be extracted when you reach a certain age or a level - as was the case with Gara, perhaps he is waiting till Susuke gets to a certain level.
Some also believe that Suzaku will awaken within Susuke when he has enough hatred. And some believe that to awaken Suzaku you need 3 MS users and he is simply waiting till Susuke will get the MS.
There is also the possibility that (according to the theory) because Susuke is the vessel for Suzaku, Susuke can awake from death, because this is an attribute associated with a phoenix. While Kyuubi's affect is of raging power Suzaku's affect is to reawaken from death. This could be the reason why Susuke didnt die when he was inflicted from the curse seal, or when he was harmed my Haku (maybe Haku actually did kill him).
Anyway this is all speculation.
really amaing theory..
i wonder if kishimoto really thinks about it, but there is always a possibility though
how about the phoenix is merely an ultimate summoning of the uchihas?
I'm not very familiar with the Suzaku myth, I admit. But if the Suzaku and the Kyuubi are from different dimentions, that would in no way mean that they are not comparable. If they fight logic would dictate that one would win eventually.Quote:
The main thing that keeps use from comparing them is that Suzaku has not shown a single flaming feather in the whole manga thus far, with the possible exception of that wall painting that for all we know was just random background. So since Kishimoto is only using myths as a base we can not compare anything directly until he shows us his version (If he was using myths literally then Jiraiya would be married to Tsunade).
I never said that he liked the idea of returning to konoha. But his target is Naruto, as most recently stated in chapter 258 and he's a member of akatsuki by choice. Order or not, he's watching Naruto not Sasuke.Quote:
Lacks any form of evidence. But it really would explain alot.Quote:
Let me explain my intentions here, just to be clear. I like the Suzaku Sasuke theory(technically it's only a hypothisis). I like it alot. The sceintific method however is the best way to test of something is true. Thats why i'm seeing if I can poke holes in the hypothisis with logic, facts, and evidence. If i can then i'll know that their is either not yet enough evidence to support it or that the hypothisis is false. If i can't then i'll know to look forward to Suzaku Sasuke.
The theory was ok.. but I think the ending of the theory is like this... Itachi is trying to get the strongest Bijuu which is the Kyuubi to match up the power of the suzaku... Suzaku (phoenix) is fire... So is Kyuubi, his element is fire... Fire vs Fire... um.. like flame of recca.. they can't kill each other..
[b][font=tahoma][color=green]I must admit, it is a very well-thought out theory. And very very interesting. However *ahem*. Who is Suzaku and how did he appear all of a sudden? Is Suzaku "phoenix" in Japanese? Why is Suzaku being implemented in this theory? Is it because the painting of the wall?
[b][font=tahoma][color=green]That would seem like a very mean looking person to begin with. Itachi seems like a humble person (you know, the bowing down out of respect/shame thingy). And the way he talks to his foes it's just like he's just giving warnings instead of the in-your-face "HAHAHAH I'm stronger than you, you're just a pu**y in front of me" type of attitude. In other words, those 4 only relate to Sasuke. It is never said in the manga that Pride, Superiority, Arrogance, Power are common traits of the members of the "elite" Uchiha Clan. That is something the Hyugga thought of.Quote:
[b][font=tahoma][color=green]Wo wo wo, wait a second here, that's something that came out of MH! The only thing I've managed to see from the manga is that the demon is being transfered to the "King-of-Hell".Quote:
[b][font=tahoma][color=green]If Sasuke really found out about that, then he wouldn't be so keen on killing Itachi knowing that they're just puppets of a certain "demon"! I don't think Sasuke is a blind/idiotic killing Machine for absolutely no reason at all.Quote:
[b][font=tahoma][color=green]Is Suzaku one of the mythical tailed beasts? If it's not I don't think Akatsuki would want to extract it! Sorry, "tailed demons only"! See the 9 eyes in the "King of hell?" Do you see a 10th eye? I DON'T think so!Quote:
But like my signature, it could all be very true. However I'm still betting this as almost near-nonsense, interesting but the basis is not very "concrete"!
The name probably comes from Japanese/Chinese mythology even though the character of Suzaku (in mythology) is of a protector rather than a destroyer. There is a reference in the manga to Suzaku or at least the term Suzaku, this is the inscription on Itachis ring in kanji.Originally Posted by Tamerlane
What I mean is this. Its not logically correct to say that Kyuubi is stronger than Suzaku because Suzaku is not mentioned in the legend of the tailed beasts.Originally Posted by Jammin
I simply quoted from the databooks to show that he is after Naruto because its an order from Akatsuki. Hes watching over Naruto due to an order but he has a personal interest in Susuke, hes simply waiting for him to be strong. Ch 147 I have no interest in you right now right now because Susuke isnt strong enough.Originally Posted by Jammin
His decision to join Akatsuki according to the theory is to learn the techniques that are required to extract beasts sealed inside people.
The evidence is Gara.Originally Posted by Jammin
Yes its only a hypothesis.Originally Posted by Jammin
Like you said to prove a hypothesis you need to use logical facts and some facts have been brought in, but there isnt enough information to logically prove it (thats why its a hypothesis). However you need to use logical facts to disprove a hypothesis too and I havent seen any. So it remains as a possibility but only a possibility, perhaps by a long shot.
Susukes father and the 3 Uchihas who came to meet Itachi to mention about his friends death, did they seem humple? The reason the author of the theory attributed the traits as common traits was probably because it was commonly seen in the Uchihas, in the way they spoke about the clan, their role in Konoha etc etc.Originally Posted by kunai jutsu
Remember not all Uchihas were disgusted by the fact that they owed their abilities to a demon, the elders of the Uchihas were knowledgeable of this fact and was faithful to the agreement between the Uchihas and Suzaku. The only ones resented this were the geniuses of the clan.Originally Posted by kunai jutsu
What drives Susuke is sadness and the anger that aroused from the death of loved ones and the fact that Uchihas abilities might be due to an agreement their ancestors have made with a demon wouldnt do anything to reduce his anger. Should it?
And far as Susuke is concerned he assumes Itachi to be the container of Suzaku.
Firstly what makes you think Itachi has informed Akatsuki about Suzaku.Originally Posted by kunai jutsu
Secondly, you are assuming that Akatsuki is only interested the tailed demons without actually seeing any reference to it.
Each Akatsuki member wears a ring, inscribed with the first kanji related to the nine mythical beasts in Japanese mythology, including the four Kyoto guardian gods (shijin). One of them is Suzaku. Perhaps Ataksukis real goal is these mythical beasts.
Like you said this could be all nonsense, the probability of the theory being true is very low. But hey so are 99% of the theories posted on the site.
But this theory, who ever wrote it, is my favorite so far.