英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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Re: Hollow Ichigo: The most powerful
Richo i believe hes talking about the hallowfied ichigo that goes crazy and if that is the case then no i dont think anyone might be able to beat the full hallow ichigo as he goes completely out of control
If Nissan Motorsports is NISMO, does that make Honda Motorsports HOMO?
Yea you saw the big difference in the Byakuya fight. He went from being unable to move (with a sword in his foot) to being fast enough to catch Byakuya (who was retreating from his Getsuga Tensho; that's pretty fast!)
To be fair, the only Espada we KNOW that he's stronger than in terms of reiatsu in Hollow mode is Ulquiorra, which means that there's a good chance that Espada 1-3 are stronger than he is, Aizen of course, and the Vaizard are at or above his level. Probably above.
If his hollow version is stronger than Ulquiorra (actually this is a fact since Ulquiorra said it himself), why would you think the Vizards are stronger?
I don't think the Vizards are stronger, one-on-one. Remember how hollow Ichigo easily defeated Hiyori and was about to kill her until the others saved her.
Also, how is Ulquiorra the ONLY one we know he's stronger than? If he's stronger than Ulquiorra, then he's automatically stronger than 5-10. That means Ulquiorra isn't the only Espada he's stronger than ^^
Last edited by Zeus-Tails; October 18, 2007 at 08:38 PM.
Don't oversell Hollow Ichigo, though. We really only know two people he's stronger than, Byakuya, and Hyori. It's possible Shinji with his mask and as yet unseen Bankai is stronger, and we still don't know for sure how big a gap there is from Byakuya to the top captains, namely Kyoraku, Utakake, and Yamamoto, or how Uluqolora stands up to Espada 1-3. Oh and of course Aizen. Part of what makes Hollow Ichigo so strong, his berserk fighting instinct also limits him. He want's to rush in and just kill the opponent, but if he underestimates them it can backfire. Remember what happened to him last time we saw him, when Ichigo turned it around when he should have been utterly beaten. Actually that reminds me of something from Peter Davids great run on the Incredible Hulk. Bruce Banner punching out the Grey and Green Hulks, while declaring "Banner is the strongest one their is!"
What does it mean? It means your about to get your butt kicked!
I'd say Kyoraku and Byakuya are around the same level. Yamamoto just said that they were his students, and therefore above-average Shinigami, but Byakuya's proved to be an above average shinigami as well, and he doesn't exactly have to have Yama-jii as a sensei.
And while berserk, HI is more interesting to watch fight, but I'd think against an Espada, such tactics are common, so that wouldn't be a huge factor.
The problem here is, we're thinking of hollow ichigo as a seperate entity, much like we seem to think of zangetsu as.
Neither are actually seperate to ichigo, they're part of him. If he gets stronger or weaker, so to do they. When ichigo is using his hollow powers, he's merely tapping into another avenue of power, and the exponetial increase in his power is due to the fact he's using it to compliment his shinigami side.
So in reality, hollow ichigo is really no more powerful than ichigo "could" be. The difference in asskickery is simply that the hollow portion of ichigo as a subconcious symbiotic entity that can use the abilities and powers of ichigo at a level that is superior to what ichigo is capable of currently. Of course, we can only really theorise about the specifics here...given it's only ever been half explained.
To be clear on a few things, the other vizards aren't necessarily stronger than ichigo simply because they could have defeated his hollow's outter form while he was subdueing it. They were fighting something that was only using it's hollow powers, and wasnt concious like an arrancar. Ichigo in that form was just a normal hollow. I would say the vizards are a little lower than ichigo, but stronger than ishida or chad, except for shinji who is quite clearly stronger due to a more defined mastery of his hollow side, and potentially an equal mastery of his shinigami side.
So for me, people stronger than Ichigo are, in no real order:
3.Ukitake and Shunsui
4. Espada 1-4
(we're not exactly sure just how strong ulquorria really is, and the fluctuating power that he felt from ichigo was the hollow attempting to use most of it's available power to overcome ichigo)
1. Gin and Tousen
Any of the other captains/vizards/arrancar...strong people.... are harder to figure out given what we know.
I'm looking forward to the post HM arc as we may finally see some proper development in ichigo...beyond a longer use of his hollow power.
Right here it is .as soon as ur half hollow ur immidiatley sronger than any shinigami, i think u guys are giving some of these shinigami too much credit eg:yamamoto,Ukitake and Shunsui,Byakuya.
Although theres a very very VERY good chance that aizen is aslo a hollow hybrid (why else would he live with hollows) and he managed to take out so many shinigami (komamura, toshirou,renji,ichigo)without even breaking a sweat or putting on a hollow mask. ichigo is also a hybrid, so theres a good chance he could take out any shinigami whilst in hollow form. the getsugya tenshou he ripped at grimjow would have annihilated any shinigami.
De only shinigami i would say are on the same lvl or above hollow ichigo are kisuke and yoruichi. kisuke obviously and yoruichi bcoz she pwned yammy is respected by Ulquiorra plus we havent see so much as a shikai out of her, yet, she's able to stop aizens sword, shes definitley got some tricks up her sleeve.
Its true the vizards are probably more powerful that hollow ichigo simply because they can control their hollows better.
Continuing my rant one more thing that made me laugh reading this thread is; how the hell is hollow ichigo stronger than hyori if hyori is the one training him .
Aizen and the first 3 espada are definitley stronger than H/ichigo theres no doubt about that . and im sure u can add nell to that list as well.
Lastly when ichigo was trying to subdue his hollow in the inner battle . the vizards were fighting his hollow. his hollow was able to do things that normal masked ichigo cant do for example cero. and im not sure if the other vizards can do it whilst in hollow mode . it would help ichigo's lack of kiddo
Well, you cannot exactly compare like this, it is up to battletypes. Like when ishida and chad's fight with the two arrancars, strenght to strenght, speed to speed. If espada #2 battlestyle is weak against HIchigo, for example, someone who kees calm and access their oppoents, will be taken off guard and might lose. But if someone similar to Hichigo, then he will have a very hard time winning so it is more on battle-types.
The claim that becoming half hollow automatically makes you more powerful than any shinigami is probably an incorrect assumption. If that were the case, all Arrancar would also automatically be stronger than any Shinigami, which has already been proven wrong in any/all scenarios.