Hollow Ichigo: The most powerful

[TheChosenOne]

To make things clear this post is bout the hollow inside ichigo. Not ichigo with his hollow mask on.

[Ripht]

I would think that hollow ichigo, or when the hollow takes over like in SS arc. Is the most powerful being in the bleach universe, because he doesn't get tired, doesn't get slowed down by broken bones etc, he only wants to destroy stuff.

If you remember in the fight when he took over ichigo's body, he said that almost all his bones where broken but if ichigo hadn't taken over again then byuakan would easily be dead.

I would take something like aizen's bankai to stop him, would have to affect his mind not his body in order to stop him

[Neuroff]

The claim that becoming half hollow automatically makes you more powerful than any shinigami is probably an incorrect assumption. If that were the case, all Arrancar would also automatically be stronger than any Shinigami, which has already been proven wrong in any/all scenarios.

Although this is true, Kyouraku and Ukitake are being seriously overrated. Yes, Yamamoto said they were stronger than their peers, but he didn't even notice Aizen, who was a powerhouse on his own level. Not only that, he says their power is unrivaled as a TEAM, not as individuals. "When it comes time for battle, your complementary abilities work phenomenally well together. That power is unrivaled by anyone who came before you and everyone since."

[Kurouno]

As far as Hollow Ichigo being the most powerful being in the Bleach universe goes, I find that more than just a little hard to swallow. For starters, his Getsuga Tenshou would have probably annihilated Byakuya in a single swipe, let alone being sandwiched by two of them. I think this is a pretty fair assumption, considering Aizen was able to defeat several Captains in an instant. Therefore it is safe to say that he isn't the most powerful character. Furthermore, he was easily subdued by the remaining Vizards after catching Hiyori off guard.

Even if you refer to the Hollow-Transformed Ichigo fighting the Vizard, it is fairly reasonable to say that he also is far from being the most powerful. The Vizards fought him for ten minutes each without even donning masks (with the exception of Love, who was going to go through with it only to block a Cero). Furthermore, it is much more difficult to defeat someone without killing them than to go out and flatten them, that much is just common sense. The transformed Ichigo would have been killed if they fought seriously.

Lastly in regards to Hollow Ichigo, while ignoring wounds and simply wanting to kill anyone around makes someone significantly more dangerous, it does nothing to boost overall attacking power and doesn't really matter if the fight isn't prolonged. Instant regeneration doesn't mean a thing if you get one-shotted.

Overall, I think there is no way in hell that Hollow Ichigo is the most powerful character in the series.

As far as Kyouraku and Ukitake being overrated, I don't think this is true. If anyone is truly overrated in this series, it would be Hollow Ichigo (this topic and the millions like it being case and point), Noitora (prior to his # being revealed) and Zaraki Kenpachi.

Aizen pulled the sheet over Yamamoto's eyes because of two words: Kyouka Suigetsu. Not a whole lot anyone not named Tousen Kaname can do about it. Other than that, I see no reason to doubt his judgment on his main pupils' powers.

[Neuroff]

Even if you refer to the Hollow-Transformed Ichigo fighting the Vizard, it is fairly reasonable to say that he also is far from being the most powerful. The Vizards fought him for ten minutes each without even donning masks (with the exception of Love, who was going to go through with it only to block a Cero). Furthermore, it is much more difficult to defeat someone without killing them than to go out and flatten them, that much is just common sense. The transformed Ichigo would have been killed if they fought seriously.

Overall, I think there is no way in hell that Hollow Ichigo is the most powerful character in the series.

You can't truly gauge his hollows powers based on what happened until the end of the fight. For most of the fight, his hollow hadn't even fully transformed. They were fighting a half-transformed hollow without a mind. That isn't a comparison to the nearly transformed Ichigo that Love was about to face a Cero from. You can see on page 6 of chapter 222 that the Cero would have caused considerable damage to Love from the looks on their faces, and the fact that Hiyori is trying to get him out of the barrier. Hollow Ichigo isn't the most powerful character, but you're not giving him enough credit.

As far as Kyouraku and Ukitake being overrated, I don't think this is true. If anyone is truly overrated in this series, it would be Hollow Ichigo (this topic and the millions like it being case and point), Noitora (prior to his # being revealed) and Zaraki Kenpachi.

Aizen pulled the sheet over Yamamoto's eyes because of two words: Kyouka Suigetsu. Not a whole lot anyone not named Tousen Kaname can do about it. Other than that, I see no reason to doubt his judgment on his main pupils' powers.

Even IF Aizen was hiding his reiatsu using Kyouka Suigetsu, Yamamoto never says a thing about Kyouraku and Ukitake's strength as individuals. There is no way you can conclude that Kyouraku and Ukitake are the next strongest captains from what Yamamoto said.

[harro7]

To be fair, the only Espada we KNOW that he's stronger than in terms of reiatsu in Hollow mode is Ulquiorra, which means that there's a good chance that Espada 1-3 are stronger than he is, Aizen of course, and the Vaizard are at or above his level. Probably above.

I think Ulquiorra might have meant that Ichigo was only stronger than him in his current (pre-release) form. That's how I interpreted it anyhow

[Kurouno]

Well, a Cero isn't something you'd want to be hit by and expect to walk away from, regardless of who fires it, but I see your point and don't disagree when you put it that way. At least we can both agree that he isn't the most powerful, as far as full-Hollow Ichigo goes, but maybe I AM guilty of not giving him enough credit out of personal bias and not realizing it.

Regardless, Neuroff, what's your view point on the actual sentient inner hollow of Ichigo's, complete with ear-piercing shrieking? Do you think he's the most powerful?

And as far as Kyouraku/Ukitake go, I'll have to get back to you on that. I haven't actually read that chapter since it came out, and I wasn't paying all that much attention when the episode was released (was watching with friends), so my memory was telling me Yamamoto WAS referring to their skills as individuals, without the mention of teamwork. SO, I'll get back to you on that on a day when I dig around and find that chapter again.

[Neuroff]

Well, a Cero isn't something you'd want to be hit by and expect to walk away from, regardless of who fires it, but I see your point and don't disagree when you put it that way. At least we can both agree that he isn't the most powerful, as far as full-Hollow Ichigo goes, but maybe I AM guilty of not giving him enough credit out of personal bias and not realizing it.

Regardless, Neuroff, what's your view point on the actual sentient inner hollow of Ichigo's, complete with ear-piercing shrieking? Do you think he's the most powerful?

I'd think he's somewhere in the area of Ichigo's level, maybe a bit lower. The hollow has instant regeneration and pure fighting instinct, but without a shinigami side, there is no way that it could be the strongest. You can see that Ichigo's true power comes out when he finds his resolve rather than just his fighting instinct in the Grimmjaw fight.

And as far as Kyouraku/Ukitake go, I'll have to get back to you on that. I haven't actually read that chapter since it came out, and I wasn't paying all that much attention when the episode was released (was watching with friends), so my memory was telling me Yamamoto WAS referring to their skills as individuals, without the mention of teamwork. SO, I'll get back to you on that on a day when I dig around and find that chapter again.

I already found the chapter when I was looking up the quote last time. If you want to save some time, it's in chapter 155. At least in Manga Rain's translation, Yamamoto is talking about their abilities working well together.

[harro7]

My approximate ranking

1) Aizen
2) Gin
3) 1-4 espada
7) Yamamato
8) Urahara
9) Isshin
10) Shinji
11) Ryuken
12) Ichigo with mask on I'm guessing the full hollow version of himself is much weaker than his current level

Have a feeling many of the other vizard are still stronger than Ichigo also

[matrice]

The full hollow version is much stronger for a lot of reasons: shirosaki can use all his hollow and shinigami powers perfectly, while ichigo has still to learn how to use cero and other things: it seems that he can just copy his hollow side, and tis should explain why he isn't able to do any considerable progress by himself. However, in my opinion shirosaki has enough power to compete with the top : in my opinion the only one who would have a chance against him will be Aizen, he is simply unstable because it seems that ripping off the mask is enough to make ichigo come back. I think that the problem is instinct: shirosaki seems to have an istinctively control over his powers, while Ichigo seems pretty slow when it comes down to this sort od things. Plus he hasn't even the sort of battle-mindset of someone like Kempachi or shirosaki. Believe me, as far as Ichigo remains the silly way he is now, he will only get his ass kicked.

[Ruissu]

always thought that Hivhigo needs ichigos power/body so that he cant access his own power... so when u guys say that when ichigo puts the mask he is accessing other power it isnt truth..he is usingg his own+zangetso+h ichigo... or just ichigo+h ichigo since zangetso is gone... or wethenver.. so ichigo is yet to master shinigamy+hollow...

[AngryChubbs]

nope...im sure there is someone stronger because if he was strongest, then that wouldnt make for a very good story.

[matrice]

Yes, indeed they have the same power, but the difference is "instinct": all the tacniques that Ichigo has learned were the one used by his hollow (black getsuga tensho, the move when he makes the sword rotate pulling it from the bandage). SO you can say that althougt they should have teorically the same strenght (and this point was cleared well enough during the inner-fight during the vaizard's trining) Shirosaki knows how to use it to the fulest (for example, Ichigo ruined his own body trying to use his bankai, while Shirosaki almost killed Byakuia in two seconds). Well, you can't say that he will stronger than Aizen, but indeed when he appears he seems almost invincible.

[Zeus-Tails]

We don't know we're overrating Kyoraku and Ukitake because we never seen them fight. Basically, all we've seen is their shikai and then after that we've seen them after they fought a little with Yamamoto (a little blood but still very much healthy and alive).

All we can really go on is what is said about them

[lilkwarrior]

If his hollow version is stronger than Ulquiorra (actually this is a fact since Ulquiorra said it himself), why would you think the Vizards are stronger?

I don't think the Vizards are stronger, one-on-one. Remember how hollow Ichigo easily defeated Hiyori and was about to kill her until the others saved her.

Also, how is Ulquiorra the ONLY one we know he's stronger than? If he's stronger than Ulquiorra, then he's automatically stronger than 5-10. That means Ulquiorra isn't the only Espada he's stronger than ^^

To tell you the truth, a full hollow Ichigo is no different than a soul with regrets changing to a hollow. A "fully transformed hollow" Ichigo would not be Ichigo anymore, it would be a menos class hollow. In fact, would it be ironic if Vastorde Hollows were mostly comprised of some of the Shinigami that their hollow side completely took over, when they were attempting to be Vizards? It would explain WHY it is forbidden in Soul Society for anyone to do this, besides being more of the creatures that they hunt in the first place. Have you notice that there hasn't been one hollow, even Grimmjow's original hollow form having such powerful abilities at once?