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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
well, even though i would put mayuri and komamura on the bottom of the list like most people, i wouldnt say they are "low tier" at all. low tier seems to a term for those that they barely qualify for their position as captain, which would be befitting of somebody like ikkaku, but ikkaku's bankai would not last long vs koma's shikai, let alone bankai.
So, if you wanna relate the strength of the captains to one another, then yeah you can put a low tier, but IMO if you want to rank them in terms of what a captain and their power should be, not a single captain in this line up of the gotei 13 at least would be low tier or weak.
Using filler as reference, and NOT using canon as reference are two vastly different things.
This is a thread about the opinions of the users.
Thats my opinion. I can base my opinion on whatever i want as long as it is canon.
I cant however go on and base my opinion on fillers.
Btw youre free to offer some evidence on why Yamamoto>Shunsui, beside the obvious
"HE HAS FIRE DUDE, HES OLD AS HELL HE HAS TO BE STRONGER, HES THEIR TEACHER, THEY HAD NO CHANCE AGAINST HIM IN THAT BATTLE"
Last edited by gh0un; November 01, 2009 at 12:06 PM.
1) What did Shunsui say when he and Ukitake left the Sōkyoku Hill? "If you stay there and fight with Old Man Yama, __________." Hint: See this page.
2) What did Nanao (Shunsui's vice-captain) say about their winning chances based on her knowledge about these captains? "Even though we have two captains, our chance of winning is _____." Hint: See this page.
3) How did Nanao change her mind after Yamamoto paralyzed her? "How could I be so naive... so wrong... There was ____..." Hint: See this page.
4) When Yamamoto released his shikai, there was _____ in Shunsui's eyes. Hint: See this page.
a) enjoyment b) indifference c) disdain d) fear
5) What was the result of the fight? Hint: See this page.
a) Yamamoto was sweating and had blood on his face.
b) Shunsui and Ukitake were sweating and had blood on their faces.
Also see this page, this page and this page.
If you successfully pass this test, you'll see the evidence right in front of your eyes.
Last edited by Gran Maestro; November 01, 2009 at 01:04 PM.
a) Ichigo won
b) Byakuya lost
c) Kenpachi lost
d) Kubo won
And now lets look at this:
a) Kenpachi made Ichigo stfu
b) Byakuya made Ichigo stfu
c) Both of them made Ichigo stfu
d) Ichigo shut the fuck up
What do we have here?
a) Two canon references which contradict each other
b) Kubo made a horrible mistake
c) Kubo actually didnt make a mistake...
d) ...instead he used a plot device called character development
To whom can this plot device be applied to?
Im not ignoring anything, im well aware of those pages you brought up.
I was one of those saying that Kenpachi and Byakuya are actually stronger than Ichigo, and as soon as they would play into the story again, they would demonstrate it.
There were other Gran Maestro´s at that time, telling me the exact same crap,
(Ichigo beat em, thats canon, blablabla)
and here we are now: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/380/02/
I guess you get the hint from here on...
Last edited by gh0un; November 01, 2009 at 03:56 PM.
Well if you actually read my post you would see I used factual, canon material as my main evidence. The rest was just extra to compliment my theory. You said yourself your theory was your opinion, so please allow me to have my own and don't nit pick and ignore parts of my post to make your idea seem more likely.Quote:
You used canon to back your opinion up, good for you, thats why i was only referring to the bold part of your post. (the part i bolded, the filler part --> yes i was able to differentiate between your filler reference and canon reference)
Im well aware of the dialogue in TBTP, and i also think that this is the moment Unohana is established as one of the strongest captains.
Before that, we just knew that she is a good healer.
My opinion about the whole Byakuya & Kenpachi vs Ichigo is clear, read it here. Don't compare me with other people whom you discussed the issue at the time.
If there's an inconsistency in the manga, we can't apply it to all circumstances and say "Omaeda is stronger than Aizen, his 3rd seat is stronger than Shunsui, Kon is stronger than Yamamoto, Yachiru is stronger than Gotei 13 combined, etc." What's the point in discussion then, let's sort the captains in a random order.
I personally think that ukitake is stronger than shunsui, maybe b/c I like him better lol. Not to say that I don't like shunsui b/c I think he kicks ass. But if uki was not limited by health, I think he could be stronger than shunsui
As for shunsui being possibly stronger than yama, yes he can be. But I don't think he is at the moment. Yama's strength was implied by shunsui to be so strong tha if they were to fight at the sokyoku hill, he would kill everyone. That is no light compliment. Yama has maxed out his shinigami limits and that is why he is such a powerhouse. Shunsui and uki are getting there, but they are still quite far from it. If they do reach their limits, they can potentially be stronger than yama.
Ill go for the win now:
"If you stay there and fight with old man yama, we will all die"
You are interpreting that line the wrong way.
Shunsui meant, if Ukitake stays there, where everyone else is, and reflects Yamamoto´s fire attacks/bankai, everyone is going to die because of collateral damage.
Instead they should separate yama and fight with him where no one else is in harms way.
IF he meant, that no matter what, they would die against him if they fought, then there is no reason whatsoever to stop running and facing off with Yamamoto at some other place, they did however, because they have a chance at winning.
Thats further strengthened by the following page:
They didnt want to release their zanpakutou at first, because using their swords would certainly lead to using their abilities against their sensei, killing him in the process.
Look at Ukitake´s face at the bottom. Thats a remorseful face that says
"i dont want to kill you sensei, but you dont leave me with an alternative"
Next page, he agrees with Shunsui that it has to be done, and his face changes to "killing mode".
The same eyes of remorse can be found on this page, this time its Shunsui before releasing:
Now ill get to the "they had blood on their faces, therefore they didnt stand a chance" crap.
Whats that? Shunsui has blood on his face! They are even 2on1.
Shunsui alone clearly doesnt stand a chance against the Primera.
But wait, whats that?
Looks like i was wrong.
Maybe i can find another occasion where blood on the face really means that you cant win. YES! I found a scenario where that logic should apply:
Damn, its another hoax.
Then the "Shunsui and Ukitake were afraid of fighting yama" should clearly be the nail in the coffin? no?
Those who do not know fear, are not fit to do battle.
Looks like you got it all wrong.
ps: i meant this to be sarcastic, but turns out, all the points i came up with are valid.
Shunsui > Yama more likely than ever.
Last edited by gh0un; November 03, 2009 at 02:46 PM.
everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Gran has presented great evidence, if that doesn;t sway you the i guess that is it
It should read, "we will all die" excluding Ukitake and Yamamoto.
The dialogue before that should make it obvious.
You turned that argument into a laughing matter to invalidate it, but you didnt even understand the argument in the first place... pretty weak
Last edited by gh0un; November 03, 2009 at 03:31 PM.