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Thread: Ranking of Captains

  1. #541
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    whatever you may say; Soi Fon and Komamura aren't among the strongest Captains. and the fact isn't going to be changed.
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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    None of the captains of the gotei 13 can be considered the weakest be cause they can all at least defeat another fellow captain, or ex captain.

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  4. #543
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    None of the captains of the gotei 13 can be considered the weakest be cause they can all at least defeat another fellow captain, or ex captain.
    That pretty much sums it up. If there was someone "the weakest", he wouldn't be worth to give the title of captain.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    None of the captains of the gotei 13 can be considered the weakest be cause they can all at least defeat another fellow captain, or ex captain.
    they can defeat at least another fellow Captain? i didn't know that as a fact. anyway, I believe none of the other Captains can defeat Unohana or Kyoraku. there already is a tier difference among Captains. may be Soi Fon can defeat Hitsuyaga and Hitsuyaga may defeat Komamura and Komamura may defeat Soi Fon. so all of them can defeat at least one of the other Captains; at the same time can remain in the lower tier of the Captains.
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  6. #545
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    they can defeat at least another fellow Captain? i didn't know that as a fact. anyway, I believe none of the other Captains can defeat Unohana or Kyoraku. there already is a tier difference among Captains. may be Soi Fon can defeat Hitsuyaga and Hitsuyaga may defeat Komamura and Komamura may defeat Soi Fon. so all of them can defeat at least one of the other Captains; at the same time can remain in the lower tier of the Captains.
    Are you sure none of the other captains can defeat Unohana or Kyoraku? Shinji and Mayuri are my candidate for those two. We can rank captains in tier, but we can't rank them at being weakest or strongest. And even if we rank them in tiers, the possibility of a lower tier captain defeats a higher level captain isn't really out of the picture.

  7. #546
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    The thing is to call these hypothetic battles one way or another, we can only speculate.
    But while senior captains are in a different level of strength, you can't really evaluate the result of a battle between captain-level sides based purely on that strength.
    For instance, in my opinion,Tousen, in terms of reiatsu and overall raw power wouldn't rank that high, but his Bankai would be too much for half of the captains to counter. Captain-Commander, Komamura and Kenpachi (as shown, of course) can tank it and counter it, are you sure that seniors would be able to do it?
    Especially Unohana, since all that is to her for now is nothing but hype. She hasn't shown anything to suggest that she can take direct hits from a sword in order to grab it. Of course, she hasn't shown anything to suggest the opposite of this, either.

    I'm not necessarily suggesting Tousen or a supposedly weaker captain would cut them down or something.
    I'm just saying you can't leave their respective abilities out while evaluating a hypothetic duel.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Komamura has always had rough treatment in the manga however there is the consideration that he has always fought aizen. Obviously he wouldn't be close to matching aizen however he has never had a fight we have seen against a standard enemy so to speak.

    Soifon is almost without a doubt the fastest captain out there. Her only opponents have been gigio to whom she gave the fodder treatment, barragan who was god damned segunda espada and aizen, who puts god damned segunda and the combined power of 8 captains to shame before spitting on it. There is hardly much to go on here. She did fight a quincy however without bankai she is naturally going to have trouble with blutz. We also don't know exactly which characters are faster than her for that matter. The only one that might be faster would be shunsui and even that is somewhat doubtfull. Yoruichi has perhaps regained her form by now. Its plainly not fair to compare her to aizen or yamamoto or the royals (who seem to be in the thousands of years old in comparison to soifon's couple hundred).
    If you don't mind my asking, what exactly do you mean by fastest? In Naruto, Minato is the fastest because he has a space/time tech & he has the fastest reaction speed. He isn't actually the fastest ninja in foot speed (he is one of the fastest).

    If you are talking about fastest as in foot speed, then what speed feats has as Soifon displayed to praise her that much lvl?
    I don't see her being faster than Yama at all & possibly Shunsui (who was praised by Yama for his shunpo speed).
    Yama is a master of the shinigami arts. He has mastered all arts so he is no doubt fast & strong (he shown this against WW). Soifon is actually a baby to him in the shinigami arts & I don't think we have been given a reason to believe she's the fastest captain (shunpo user).
    The only captain that has strike me as being faster than Yama is Aizen (understandable because Aizen has also mastered the shinigami arts).

    ---------- Post added at 01:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    The thing is to call these hypothetic battles one way or another, we can only speculate.
    But while senior captains are in a different level of strength, you can't really evaluate the result of a battle between captain-level sides based purely on that strength.
    For instance, in my opinion,Tousen, in terms of reiatsu and overall raw power wouldn't rank that high, but his Bankai would be too much for half of the captains to counter. Captain-Commander, Komamura and Kenpachi (as shown, of course) can tank it and counter it, are you sure that seniors would be able to do it?
    Especially Unohana, since all that is to her for now is nothing but hype. She hasn't shown anything to suggest that she can take direct hits from a sword in order to grab it. Of course, she hasn't shown anything to suggest the opposite of this, either.

    I'm not necessarily suggesting Tousen or a supposedly weaker captain would cut them down or something.
    I'm just saying you can't leave their respective abilities out while evaluating a hypothetic duel.
    I could never understand why Tousen would be ranked as a weak captain (it's confirmed some don't like his character for some reason). In fact I can never understand why any captain would be ranked weak. Besides the seniors, I would rank all the other captains in the same tier (some being stronger tahn others but nontheless in the same tier). They all have different fighting styles.

    Tousen's bankai is not absolute. I see all the captains being able to fight it one way or the other but the bankai will give them hell no doubt. Kenpachi is one dangerous close range fighter. so the most appropriate way for his to get around Tousen is to catch Tousen's blade before it does any real damage.

  9. #548
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    If you don't mind my asking, what exactly do you mean by fastest? In Naruto, Minato is the fastest because he has a space/time tech & he has the fastest reaction speed. He isn't actually the fastest ninja in foot speed (he is one of the fastest).

    If you are talking about fastest as in foot speed, then what speed feats has as Soifon displayed to praise her that much lvl?
    She's the only shinigami show far that has shown the clones technique, 15 clones if I remember correctly. We also don't have any indication that she is slower than any other captains, but she showed a shunpo technique that we haven't seen in order captains.

    About tousen, I think his bankai can easily be countered if the other person have seen it before. Koma's bankai can easily rip the enclosed space apart, similar to Byakuya and other captains... But if he fight an unprepared person, it's really troublesome.
    Last edited by River_Capulet; November 23, 2012 at 09:12 AM.

  10. #549
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    She's the only shinigami show far that has shown the clones technique, 15 clones if I remember correctly. We also don't have any indication that she is slower than any other captains, but she showed a shunpo technique that we haven't seen in order captains.

    About tousen, I think his bankai can easily be countered if the other person have seen it before. Koma's bankai can easily rip the enclosed space apart, similar to Byakuya and other captains... But if he fight an unprepared person, it's really troublesome.
    I've said it before what I think Soifon's skills is all about. Speed, Control, Reaction & Distraction. The clones are used to distract in order to give an opening for a specific strike similarly to how this http://www.mangapanda.com/94-753-19/...apter-299.html was used by Yoruichi to escape danger from Byakuya in the SS arc. It is not a speed feat.

    I don't think Tousen's bankai can easily be broken like that. If it could then it's a very flawed bankai. Nontheless I still think he would give the other captains (who aren't seniors) hell.

  11. #550
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    I've said it before what I think Soifon's skills is all about. Speed, Control, Reaction & Distraction. The clones are used to distract in order to give an opening for a specific strike similarly to how this http://www.mangapanda.com/94-753-19/...apter-299.html was used by Yoruichi to escape danger from Byakuya in the SS arc. It is not a speed feat.

    I don't think Tousen's bankai can easily be broken like that. If it could then it's a very flawed bankai. Nontheless I still think he would give the other captains (who aren't seniors) hell.
    Clones are a speed feat, they are used to distract, but they are created by extreme speed, unlike naruto's version. You have to be pretty fast to be able to leave multiple after image that are so realistic behind you. Even if the clones weren't after image but a gigai (Urahara), you still have to be very fast in order to switch with the gigai unnoticed.

    Do you think that yoruichi one after image technique is more difficult to pull out than soi fon 15 clones? not to mention Yoruichi (and Byakuya) after image stands still while soifon 15 clones moves simultaneously. None of the character in the manga have showed such technique, zommari was limited to 5 clones. Yoruichi and Byakuya pulled out 1 after image, Urahara used a gigai and Hitsu used an ice reflection.

    Soi fon's greatest strength is speed, and very few other chars showed that they can be faster than her. We are just seeing how fast they are compared to their opponent, but we've never really see them race against each other. We've only seen about 3 races, Yoruichi vs Byakuya, Yoruichi vs soi fon, and Yama vs uki + shunsui. Aizen vs Yama vs Soi fon can't really be judged, but base on her clones technique, I speculate that she's no baby even when compared to the other two (speed only)
    Last edited by River_Capulet; November 23, 2012 at 09:46 AM.

  12. #551
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    She's the only shinigami show far that has shown the clones technique, 15 clones if I remember correctly. We also don't have any indication that she is slower than any other captains, but she showed a shunpo technique that we haven't seen in order captains.

    About tousen, I think his bankai can easily be countered if the other person have seen it before. Koma's bankai can easily rip the enclosed space apart, similar to Byakuya and other captains... But if he fight an unprepared person, it's really troublesome.
    I'm not sure if that enclosed space can be teared apart or not. But we just didn't get to see enough of it, unfortunately.
    But if it's, that's really not as hax as I thought first.

    About Soifon;
    She really has a special speed. Nothing less should be expected from a 2nd squad captain. She was trained as a true assassin from childhood.
    Molting Cicada is a very fearsome speed move, but it has got nothing to do with Soifon's clones. The only character apart from Soifon who made a clone by speed was Zommari, Espada #7 with his sonido.
    We can't compare the two's techniques clearly perhaps, but that's a better comparison.

    And we have only Shunpo techniques to properly measure a character's speed.
    That makes Byakuya an above-average speed master as well, considering he was able to master a move Yoruichi uses.
    We don't have any other data about the rest, though.
    Last edited by Hakuteiken; November 23, 2012 at 10:03 AM.

  13. #552
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    Clones are a speed feat, they are used to distract, but they are created by extreme speed, unlike naruto's version. You have to be pretty fast to be able to leave multiple after image that are so realistic behind you. Even if the clones weren't after image but a gigai (Urahara), you still have to be very fast in order to switch with the gigai unnoticed.

    Do you think that yoruichi one after image technique is more difficult to pull out than soi fon 15 clones? not to mention Yoruichi (and Byakuya) after image stands still while soifon 15 clones moves simultaneously. None of the character in the manga have showed such technique, zommari was limited to 5 clones. Yoruichi and Byakuya pulled out 1 after image, Urahara used a gigai and Hitsu used an ice reflection.

    Soi fon's greatest strength is speed, and very few other chars showed that they can be faster than her. We are just seeing how fast they are compared to their opponent, but we've never really see them race against each other. We've only seen about 3 races, Yoruichi vs Byakuya, Yoruichi vs soi fon, and Yama vs uki + shunsui. Aizen vs Yama vs Soi fon can't really be judged, but base on her clones technique, I speculate that she's no baby even when compared to the other two (speed only)
    It no doubt fast. But what it is basically creating clones using high speed to distract an opponent (in close range otherwise the clone trick wouldn't work because it would be obvious to read). Yoruichi (rusty) used this against soifon's police subordinates & knocked then out (meaning she had to do more than just use clones, she had to apply another movement) yet it seems she was forced to use shishou to escape Byakuya's shunpo. I don't think Soifon can ever hope to blitz a captain with just speed no matter how fast she is but she would use clones & other assasination tech to get her closer to that. She is not a Ichigo, Aizen, Bach or top speed characters to blitz a captain.

    Soifon's greatest strength is the skills of assasination. It's not just foot speed.
    Last edited by Kay3795; November 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM.

  14. #553
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    whatever you may say; Soi Fon and Komamura aren't among the strongest Captains. and the fact isn't going to be changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    they can defeat at least another fellow Captain? i didn't know that as a fact. anyway, I believe none of the other Captains can defeat Unohana or Kyoraku. there already is a tier difference among Captains. may be Soi Fon can defeat Hitsuyaga and Hitsuyaga may defeat Komamura and Komamura may defeat Soi Fon. so all of them can defeat at least one of the other Captains; at the same time can remain in the lower tier of the Captains.
    This is coming out of nowhere, as it's never stated that those three captains are the lowest tiers, and in fact, all the captains are treated equally. And I don't know where the hype from Shunsui comes from when he hasn't shown anything impressive in the manga aside from teaming with Ukitake to fight Yamamoto off panel for a while. His victory over Starrk was due to his game abilities and not skill, and his fight against the mustached guy this arc doesn't help his image either, not to mention he also lost easily against Aizen.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  15. #554
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member River_Capulet's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    It no doubt fast. But what it is basically creating clones using high speed to distract an opponent (in close range otherwise the clone trick wouldn't work because it would be obvious to read). Yoruichi (rusty) used this against soifon's police subordinates & knocked then out (meaning she had to do more than just use clones, she had to apply another movement) yet it seems she was forced to use shishou to escape Byakuya's shunpo. I don't think Soifon can ever hope to blitz a captain with just speed no matter how fast she is but she would use clones & other assasination tech to get her closer to that. She is not a Ichigo, Aizen, Bach or top speed characters to blitz a captain.

    Soifon's greatest strength is the skills of assasination. It's not just foot speed.
    Fair enough. Still, I disagree with her being unable to blitz a captain http://www.mangareader.net/94-611-17...apter-157.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-611-19...apter-157.html

    Yoruichi might be rusty, but earlier on she was still able to outmaneuver Byakuya while carrying Ichigo + zangetsu on her back. If Aizen, Yama, Bach speed is 10, I would give her at least 9.5 or 9.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by River_Capulet View Post
    Fair enough. Still, I disagree with her being unable to blitz a captain http://www.mangareader.net/94-611-17...apter-157.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-611-19...apter-157.html

    Yoruichi might be rusty, but earlier on she was still able to outmaneuver Byakuya while carrying Ichigo + zangetsu on her back. If Aizen, Yama, Bach speed is 10, I would give her at least 9.5 or 9.
    Yoruichi is so rusty she admitted not standing a chance against Byakuya at all.
    She isn't what you would call a competent fighter at that point in time. She became rusty at performing all her skills.

    Yoruichi carrying Ichigo & his Zanpakuto didn't downgrade her speed. I can't believe you said that actually ^_^
    These's characters use reiatsu to fight not physical strength hence Isshin's statement vs Grandfisher.

    Also lets look at the Byakuya vs Yoruichi little non serious shunpo tag fight again ^_^ http://www.mangareader.net/94-572-13...apter-118.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-572-14...apter-118.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-572-15...apter-118.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-572-16...apter-118.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-572-17...apter-118.html
    She used the escape jutsu (I've been watching too much Naruto lol), I mean shishou (the same tech Byakuya used to escape zommari) to escape Byakuya.

    So yh, she really was rusty.

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