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And the reason why Kenpachi named that basic move as Kendo, is because that's all he knows about it
Look that's your interpretation, so have at it...I'm not going to argue interpretations...for me that panel means that Haschvald was regarding him and measuring him up...and after that he came to his conclusion...Quote:
Different interpretations of a panel that has no relevance on the topic of Kenpachi being captain level or not...
He does, and he lacks proper skill too...that's why I posed my initial question to you...to see what are you referring to when you say he is not captain level...and it's true that considering his basic 4 shinigami skills, he is not even top 5 seat level worthy...Yumichika could probably show more mastery of technique when it comes to shunpo, kidou, even basic knowledge of the sword, not to mention zanpaktou communication...Quote:
But in spite of all that Kenpachi as an overall soldier of SS and character in Bleach is still captain level...thanks to his brute force...physical strength, reiatsu power, instinct, reflexes, etc...
i think kempachi will be the strongest shinigami and most important in this arc
Last edited by Nihonshu; December 18, 2012 at 08:09 AM.
How can it be said kenpachi was never that strong? Once he went to the kendo thing he took down the espada with the confirmed hardest hierro in a couple of hits which is specially significant if we consider every aspect of nnoitora's release was meant to make him a lethal close combat. Kenpachi can never be "VC" material simply because at its lowest possible level his reiatsu is already strong enough for kenpachi to be a proper captain level shinigami. Perhaps if we consider the fact that kenpachi has no technique whatsoever for the most part and even then he is able to fight with captain class enemies (like unreleased nnoitora) then there is the slight possibility that even with his eye patch he has actually more reiatsu than your regular captain as he is basically making up for actual battle skills with reiatsu alone. Even recently halshwald considered kenpachi's reiatsu to be "suffocating" which is quite impressive considering that was kenpachi's reiatsu at its lowest possible level. Kenpachi has fought tousen and komamura consecutively (and those two were well above the level of a measly VC) and recently he took out 3 stern rittern rather easily.... You could put an army of VC level shinigami in front of kenpachi and even with his eyepatch on he wouldn't break a sweat against them (not that other captains would have trouble doing such a thing though).
He just swung with two hands, because that's the only important thing he got out of that Kendo training.
This is just the natural motion of swinging something towards you. Unless you want to hit yourself.
That panel with Haschvald is the same type of panel Kubo uses for comedy when something stupid happens. It is relevant because it means Haschvald didn't compliment Kenpachi wholeheartedly. I said vice captain material, and then corrected myself saying that even that doesn't apply to him. If you removed Kenpachi's reiatsu and made him fight against the average Shinigami Academy student or any seated officer he would most likely loose, because they at least have some skill in sword fighting, Kido and hand to hand combat. Kenpachi is lucky to have high reiatsu hardening his skill and fast reactions, and having most of his opponents be also brutes like Nnoitra and Yammi, because in a fight against weaker yet more capable opponents he would lose.
Well, I am not kendo expert by any standards however if you look at the previous page it seems like kenpachi did get a perfect kendo stance before nnoitora attacked. And I doubt the issue is as simple as that being the only plausible way to move his arms, so far it seemed like kenpachi did kinda get a perfect swing on the thing.
Anyways, some time ago I was rereading kenpachi's fight with nnoitora and in some online reader which I can't quite recall I got the impression that the fight between nnoitora and kenpachi was a tad different from what it is in the previous link. Was the fight in the volume different from the fight in the manga chapter? Where can I read the actual volumes if that was the case?
And "War Potential" is not given to everyone who is strong, but those who have no affiliations or are willing to go far to beat an enemy, the reason Yamamoto wasn't considered one despite being the arguably strongest normal Shinigami.
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Well, as far as we know it is not that far fetch that kenpachi can lift skyscrapers quite literally. He did throw that huge chunk of rock across a rather large distance rather easily.
Saying it does not necessarily make it true . It is perfectly valid for him to be good solely at cutting things, he has the sheer raw power for it anyways. Most fighters are quite similar to that to begin with except that they have shikais or bankais.... I mean, love has a huge mace, renji has a sword which extends itself, ikkaku has a speak and huge blades or something and so on.... What makes kenpachi hard to rank is not his lack in skill in every area of combat but rather the fact that he has never actually fought at 100% or even close to that. He barely controls his reiatsu and swings his sword like a madman and even then he is able to take on captain level properly trained enemies.
Nnoitora was pretty damn strong and I would think he had the speed or agility to live up to quinta. Obviously his forte was strength and overall melee combat however we can't just disqualify his speed. He never had trouble keeping up with kenpachi and kenpachi has never shown himself to be slow even though he has never even shown shunpo.
You are putting that in the worst possible light possible which is IMO unreasonable. True, kenpachi had to take a hit to deal with his lack of senses against tousen however that also speaks volumes of his sheer stamina and endurance which are perfectly valid and useful battle capacities. Kenpachi puts any other shinigami to shame in either department, that is the reason he can afford to get his gut stabbed and continue fighting captain level opponents consecutively. Reiatsu alone is not enough in what could be called "normal" situations. Kenpachi is not a normal situation. In a normal situation you would have enemies comparable in power to you and you would beat them through skill or some strategy. So far what has happened to kenpachi is not quite luck in the context that he overcame the odds in an impossible battle. The only luck he has is that he for some reason has such an overwhelming amount of reiatsu that so far the strategies and skills his enemies have had and tried against him have simply not worked (except juhabach). Skills and tactics matter against an opponnent comparable in reiatsu, kenpachi so far has basically unquantifiable amounts of it.
That not being there in the chapter outside of halswalds text makes the situation worst. Its past the mere opinion of a manga character, it is directly the author's words (not just the editor).
How is it not much to go by? Kenpachi directly took the hits from tousen's and komamura's shikai and even then he stood his ground like nothing happened. Then he took the full might of tousen's bankai and proceeded to fight komamura like if nothing had happened. The manga did say that komamura stoped fighting almost as soon as the fight began but I would argue that kenpachi being able to handle the both of them on his own in quite significant.
Thats ridiculous, why would we think they were anything like driscol? We barely even saw them. Even if they were not exceptionally strong they were still stern as a matter of fact which means they were not weak or anything of the sort to begin with. More so, driscol didn't lose because he was stupid for that matter. He went all out the second the fight agaisnt genryusai began, his opening move was a bankai which he used to whatever extent he could. Driscol started out using every bit of power he had (which to be fair is quite smart) and he lost because the full might he had was naught in light of the overwhelming power yamamoto has. Its just a huge and overwhelming difference in reiatsu. Driscol in the end was simply not strong enough to get to a point where his apparent stupidity would be an issue. Driscol could have been a genious and yamamoto would have stomped him just the same. The only thing which can be said against driscol in this regard is perhaps that he didn't use a bankai-volstandif combination although we don't know just yet if that is actually possible. I guess the actual smart thing to do would have been to not fight yamamoto however if yamamoto actually had his sights on him he couldn't possibly escape anyways.
First, Ichigo was being compared to Inoue and now Kenpachi isn't that strong? What you're smoking, must be out of this world. I'm beginning to think that you're just a troll with good grammar knowledge.
So about "comparing Inoue to Ichigo", which I never did but rather said that her barrier are special in that they can negate events and not block attacks, I can give even more proof. For example, Ulquirra, who can easily brush off black Getsuga Tenshous, who can pack a real punch with a simple swing of his sword, and who had full intentions of killing Ichigo, was effortlessly blocked by Inoue's barrier. Why? Because her barrier are not just a physical obstacle.
Stop thinking with your fist and get this into your thick head.
And now you probably missed most of the discussion and instead attack me with nothing to back you up. I said Kenpachi is not that strong because people were comparing him to Yamamoto. He's physically strong, has powerful reiatsu and has the potential to become actually useful against any opponent, but instead he just seeks a fight at the expense of the world going to hell.
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I never complained about the captains not going Bankai during the Fake Karakura battle along with everybody else and now I'm the sole complainer about the Quincy not using their abilities. What the hell.
Well, not standing out from other captains is still not quite the same as kenpachi being weak. As he is he is definitely just at a level comparable to any of the remaining captains however that is still pretty good. I would argue that what shunsui says is more of a response to the sudden change in the gotei 13 situation rather than kenpachi being actually useless or in any form weak. Shunsui is too under qualified and particularly underpowered to be the captain commander, he alone can't possibly stand up to juhabach or have the impact in the war genryusay would have had on a bad day. Its not that kenpachi is actually useless or that as he is he is not strong enough to be a captain, its just that SS needs him to be at the highest conceivable level he can be to make up for the overall helplessness which is currently plaguing the squads. Kenpachi as a proper captain level shinigami is not enough and he has plenty more to give.
Well, yes, kenpachi would definitely get low marks in comparison to other shinigami if you were to grade him on every fighting aspect however contextually that does not work on kenpachi and it is overall not important. Kenpachi's chart is indeed an empty circle with him having high marks on defense and offense though. Its not like kenpachi can be taught those things overnight either. Kido is highly specialized and as far as we know required finely tuned control over reiatsu. Kenpachi is definitely not learning a shred of it as it would require him years of training for it to be useful (unless he gets low level kido overnight however those would be at large useless). Even the few captains that actually use kido in battle only use a few select spells which they use to complement what they do (and that is only byakuya for that matter, the rest of the captains have barely bothered with kido at all). Hand to hand combat would at large be useless for kenpachi as he is a swordsman to begin with, it would be a waste of time to get into that now. Shunpo is a skill which ichigo would suggest can be acquired fast although only at the basic level which most captains show. Agility is unlikely to change much. The nimble stuff does not suit him at all as far as we have seen. Intelligence is not quite something which is bound to improve at this point. Its not like kenpachi has shown to actually make bad calls in battle (unless he does them intentionally), he did kinda figure out tousen's bankai and beat him with what he had at his disposal and he did pretty good against nnoitora.
The arrancar who fought kira wouldn't lay a feather on eyepatch kenpachi if he was ten times stronger... Back when shikai ichigo beat renji kenpachi made a point of saying that ichigo was significantly stronger than a VC and even then ichigo was not able to cut kenpachi. Of course, a long range fight against a proper captain level enemy would be more of an issue however only if the enemy can keep kenpachi at bay. Quincy are in principle long range fighters and even then kenpachi walked up to them and killed 3. So far all the stern rittern have the same rank (at least until now there does not seem to be a difference in rank between them which would denote a difference in power as with captains and VC) meaning they are all ranked as captains. Kenpachi, and basically any other captain we have seen with a few rare exceptions, would only have trouble in a ranged fight if the enemy is able to keep him at bay and that in itself is a tad complicated. Even then, there is basically no chance of kenpachi learning long range skills in the immediate future. The odds of kenpachi learning even low level kido in the immediate future are well against him and if there is any justice in the world his eventual sword release will sport simply melee abilities.
In context the only thing which kenpachi has a shot a learning and should be taught is kendo, perhaps shunpo and probably how to commute with his zampakuto (which he could theoretically do when he isn't training). That is the one thing kenpachi mentioned which yamamoto tried to teach him and which was referenced by the chamber 46 this chapter. For the rest there is neither a point or time to teach him.
I actually get the impression kenpachi is the one with quite a bit more endurance. Overall he is the one that actually has a reputation for not falling no matter how many times you cut him. Nnoitora in particular did a number on him and even then he basically walked out of the fight. From what I recall others have fallen with the injuries he has taken at large. Komamura has taken a decent bit of damage through the manga but kenpachi in turn is actually able to continue fighting as if nothing had happened.
Well, but in context the text would only apply to halshwald. Why wouldn't it apply? Whats the point of the author writing that there if it does not apply to anyone in the chapter? It's arguing that kubo basically trolled us while it is simpler and it makes more sense to believe halswald found his reiatsu suffocating (which is not quite the same as haslwald being weak in any way).
Blutz vene and blutz arterie cannot be used at the same time and based on what we know of them it makes perfect sense that when yamamoto attacked driscol he was using blutz arterie. He was in the middle of attacking yamamoto with all of his might. And even then, I would have to question whether driscol's bluz vene would have been able to block yamamoto's RJ. Royd was able to stop kenpachi's blade on its tracks with no damage and in turn took a slight cut from yamamoto's ryujin jakka. If the guy who took out kenpachi easily could barely block yamamoto's sword with vene, what chance did driscol ever had? I don't think bankai actually allows quincy to use the full might of blutz vene while having a perfect offense with bankai.
That Fraccion can fire an unlimited amount of them and are more powerful than cannonballs. He can fly and move at fast speed, and being on of Barragan's bodyguards he must be adept at reiatsu control. Kenpachi is not impossible or even hard to cut. Ichigo simply sucks at sharpening his reiatsu. Look at his trail when he is in the Garganta. He couldn't even cut Aizen even though every other captain could. All it takes is a competent fighter to cut Kenpachi. And overall, Kira won by using his ability and not power.
You're not reading nuclear physics and it's actually not that serious. Beside the fact that it's impossible, you're reading a Shounen manga. No matter what conclusions or understandings you get from little details, Ichigo is always gonna come on top. Not to mention the fact that opinions differ, TO AN EXTENT.
If it was an attack, it would've been more severe. I'm just saying what it looks like. You're downplaying the power of one of the most popular characters in this Manga and NO ONE agrees with you, which should tell you that you're the one with the thick head.
Yeah, Kenpachi actually has the potential to be Yamajii from my pov. Seeking fights doesn't decrease his strength. That's in his character and that's what actually makes him cool for the most part. He's frighteningly powerful even without Shikai, Bankai, Kendo or any other technique. He's simply fighting with his latent potential and talent. Logically, one could assume how powerful he could become if he ever acquired aforementioned techniques. That's a given for a lot of people and it's normal that it shouldn't be discussed since it's ridiculous to even question it. But you, of course, managed to surprise probably most of us.
Last edited by Roman; December 14, 2012 at 05:21 AM.
He's a close range combatant, so, what you call luck actually makes a lot of sense. It's like saying Mayuri confronted Szayel Aporro and not another arrancar out of pure luck.
In the end, I'm pretty sure Byakuya tracked Rukia's reiatsu and Mayuri most likely made his own bet in finding the scientist man of the opponent. That leaves the close ranged Nnoitra to Kenpachi. Scenario is fitting.
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I'm referring to Tousen's Benihiko. Surely not all the captains can continue fighting like nothing happened after getting hit by so many swords.
And about Komamura's physical strength;
Of course, he is much stronger physically than average captain would be. Reiatsu may be another issue, but physical prowess alone makes him elite in that department.
Last edited by Hakuteiken; December 14, 2012 at 06:57 AM.