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Thread: Ranking of Captains

  1. #586
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    I don't think Bambietta was referring to Komamura in person when she said those words. I suppose he was talking to all 7th Squad people Komamura used his words to get back up on feet. Komamura in person wasn't that seriously injured. Or even if he was, he has been portrayed as a durable character, as he usually found power of will in his him to stand up.
    Yeah, I think you're right, she was addressing the squad members surrounding them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Feats certainly provide info, but they aren't enough on their own. Based on feat, Byakuya would rank miles ahead of Gin, whose sole success was getting the upper hand against Hitsugaya in which he half-heartedly fought. In reality, Gin would rank higher than Byakuya based on my perception of their respective abilities.
    What I'm trying to say is even giving evidence from manga to prove a point isn't going to make it any more plausible, when some characters are severely under-utilized and others are heavily used.
    Also true. I think this is probably why people couldn't believe Kenpachi was manhandled by Royd a few chapters ago, and why Komamura is ranked as one of the 'weak' Captains (not that there's any such thing as a weak Captain). Because of the way Kenpachi beat Nnoitra, for example, people think he can kill anything by just using two hands. But it doesn't instantly mean Kenpachi > Nnoitra, it's not that simple. Nnoitra very nearly killed Kenpachi, and the reason that final blow hit him so hard was because he mindlessly rushed into it without even trying to defend himself.

    Similarly, Komamura's had very few feats altogether. He's been beaten more than he's won, so people assume he's a weakling. It's funny though, Kenpachi seems to get points for easily slicing through the Time Fullbringer (I forget his name right now...), but Komamura gets none for flipping a several tonne monster over by it's finger.

  2. #587
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    Also true. I think this is probably why people couldn't believe Kenpachi was manhandled by Royd a few chapters ago, and why Komamura is ranked as one of the 'weak' Captains (not that there's any such thing as a weak Captain). Because of the way Kenpachi beat Nnoitra, for example, people think he can kill anything by just using two hands. But it doesn't instantly mean Kenpachi > Nnoitra, it's not that simple. Nnoitra very nearly killed Kenpachi, and the reason that final blow hit him so hard was because he mindlessly rushed into it without even trying to defend himself.

    Similarly, Komamura's had very few feats altogether. He's been beaten more than he's won, so people assume he's a weakling. It's funny though, Kenpachi seems to get points for easily slicing through the Time Fullbringer (I forget his name right now...), but Komamura gets none for flipping a several tonne monster over by it's finger.
    It was probably crazy of Nnoitra to make an attack head on to Kenpachi's Kendo stance. He wasn't really the observant type, so, it's not that surprising that in the end he was beaten. Kenpachi's physical strength only barely surpassed that of Nnoitra's, that is, if it surpassed beforehand.
    I have previously stated if Kenpachi and Byakuya were to switch opponents, both would probably lose. So, even Espada didn't really have a concrete ranking, despite being numbered, unlike SS captain.
    By the way, the Fullbringer you are talking about is Giriko.

    Anyway, this is a manga. The roles are pretty much set to begin with. The more important a character is, the more strength he will most likely possess or at least, we are to get that impression.

  3. #588
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Zehahaha's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Komamura had the misfortune to face Aizen, and a captain level fella who underwent a complete Hollowfication process, forget about the half assed Hollowfications of the Vizards, Tosen was the real deal thanks to the Hogyoku, so no wonder he got defeated that badly, but if it was normal Tosen vs Komamura, it would've ended in Komamura's victory because he have the means to actually destroy Tosen's bankai (huge ass Bankai can definitely destroy that space)

  4. #589
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Byakuya would stomp Nnoitra...the dude is a close range character with no speed feats

    Kenpachi vs Zommari is a little tricky, Kenpachi has to win early before amor otherwise he likely lose unless he can cancel out the attack/technique by removing his eyepatch, which I doubt.

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  6. #590
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Reiatsu can't directly kill somebody, but it does have effects on its surroundings. Somebody much weaker might choke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Tousen is and was fodder, pretty much.Only reason he was with Aizen was that he's blind. Kenpachi without going all out could almost kill him, tanked his Bankai attack like it was nothing and overpowered him with ease. During battle with Bambietta, she stated that Komamura was on verge of death. And he isn't strong without his bankai, so he IS weak. He is in his own class.
    Tousen was important for the story. And Kenpachi didn't "tank" his Bankai or overpowered him, he just stopped dodging to get a good shot. He also took a slash to the chest BY KENPACHI without dying, and was fine like 5 minutes later, not something everybody can do.

    Bambietta said Komamura's men were on the verge of death. Komamura looked fine then. He is physically strong enough to throw a giant and to cause massive trauma on whatever it hits. But he lost twice against Aizen and against fully Hollowfied Tousen, so that's three loses, so he's weak, right?
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  7. #591
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member serpico's Avatar
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    WSJ Pirate Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    Byakuya would stomp Nnoitra...the dude is a close range character with no speed feats

    Kenpachi vs Zommari is a little tricky, Kenpachi has to win early before amor otherwise he likely lose unless he can cancel out the attack/technique by removing his eyepatch, which I doubt.
    You kidding about byakuya stomped noitra the skin of noitra was so strong and resistant that byakuya bankai would be like a fart gains he's super skin and strength and with he's release form of eight hand'about be like beating a kid byakuya was even unable to beat a weakling Quincy what a joke he only give a small little scratch perhaps even worse than a joke.

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    Thumbs Up Re: Ranking of Captains

    1. Yama (or aizen)
    2. Aizen
    3. Gin, Superlong shikai, Superfast Pseudo Bankai, Poison Shard when it hits you. (I hope he's alive somewhere)
    4. Unohana, Not really a healer but a very strong fighter (even aizen didn't engage her after effortlessly beating Toshiro)
    5. Hirako (amazing Bankai)
    6. Kenpachi
    7. Byakuya (can be interchanged with Kenpachi)
    The rest are good captains... not the best though...

  10. #593
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    That absurdly long debate a few pages ago could have been solved with this page.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/520/15

    I could have just waited three weeks.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    It's safe to say that Ichigo tops every list for obvious reasons.

  12. #595
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by serpico View Post
    You kidding about byakuya stomped noitra the skin of noitra was so strong and resistant that byakuya bankai would be like a fart gains he's super skin and strength and with he's release form of eight hand'about be like beating a kid byakuya was even unable to beat a weakling Quincy what a joke he only give a small little scratch perhaps even worse than a joke.
    Ok.

    Nnoitra steel skin isn't as strong as he (you) thinks. Kenpachi is basically an untrained gorilla, any other highly trained captain level opponent could hurt him from the get go. You know what Kenpachi meant when he said he got use to hacking at Nnoitra? He meant that he started to release enough spirit pressure so that he could actually hurt him. What the hell else could it have meant...basically the power he was using initially wasn't enough to damage him.

    The same thing happened when Grimmjow meet Ichigo the first time...barring GT he couldn't do shit to Grimmjow (he wasn't releasing enough power to hurt him) yet at the same time this Ichigo was the one that defeated Kenpachi without eyepatch...that went on to defeat Nnoitra. And Kenpachi was not stronger from the last time. And Nnoitra was higher than Grimmjow on the list.

    Even if he couldn't hurt with the default bankai technqiue, which I highly doubt. He can compress the blades into swords vastly increasing their cutting power.

    Byakuya lost to a Quincy that stole his bankai and used it against him. Firstly...do you remember when Bach told that you have to be basically be equal or greater to steal and effectively use one's bankai against them...therefore it's likely that weak Quincy was in fact on Byakuya's level, Captain level. Also to compound the situtaion, As Nodt had a pretty good special ability.

    The fact that one of the Sternritter survived Yama's attack, there exist a possibility that this character isn't dead and Byakuya will indeed get his rematch.
    Last edited by cracker; December 12, 2012 at 09:05 AM.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    Firstly...do you remember when Bach told that you have to be basically be equal or greater to steal and effectively use one's bankai against them..
    No, I don't. You know why? He didn't say that. They wouldn't send mere Arrancar to steal Ichigo's bankai.

  14. #597
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/510/13

    You have to be equal or greater to steal and effectively use one's bankai against them or at all. The Arrancar could probably steal it but not use it, either way it most likely didn't work of Ichigo because he's part Quincy...the same reason the cage didn't hold him. I'd take that as facts until Kubo gives me reason to doubt or think otherwise.
    Last edited by cracker; December 12, 2012 at 10:33 AM.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/510/13

    You have to equal or greater to steal and effectively use one's bankai against them or at all.
    Stealing and CONTROLLING Bankai is NOT the same thing.

    Btw, let's use mangastream's TL, because they're always better.
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...4-page-14.html

    "Only I can control your immense power" "I TOLD Royd not to attempt anything".

    So, Royd was TOLD not to steal it. Also, he could do it. And Juha said only he could control it. Not steal, CONTROL. You know the difference? Whole sentence I quoted is assumption.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    I know stealing and control aren't the same thing. Read my post again. I said to steal and USE it effectively, contextually the same thing as CONTROL...Juha Bach implied you'd have to be equal or greater to the person you took if from. As Nodt, wasn't represented as a weak Quincy...losting Yama does not make you weak. Wonderweiss is considered by many to be very powerful...he would likely beat most captains 1 vs 1.

    Mangastream gets things wrong too, they are not infallible but yes, they are usually more accurate than Bleach scans on mangareader.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    I know stealing and control aren't the same thing. Read my post again. I said to steal and USE it effectively, contextually the same thing as CONTROL...Juha Bach implied you'd have to be equal or greater to the person you took if from. As Nodt, wasn't represented as a weak Quincy...losting Yama does not make you weak. Wonderweiss is considered by many to be very powerful...he would likely beat most captains 1 vs 1.
    I read your post and it doesn't matter, that you wrote about using it effectively, because your point was you can't steal someone's bankai when you're weaker than opponent. I'm saying that even idiot could do it, but he wouldn't be able to control it's power.

    Royd: I'll use your bankai!
    [burned to ash]
    Yamaji: "Well, that was quick..."

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