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Thread: Ranking of Captains

  1. #736
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    Because none of them used those skills by the time Kenpachi cut them down. The biggest flaw without your logic here is that you claim Kenpachi wouldn't have a problem with long ranged opponents because he has killed them before, but where were the long range attacks from Tousen or any of those 3 SR? A person could have every power in the universe and it would be meaningless if it was never given a practical use.



    He won when they got close enough for him to reach them. I can't see Kenpachi alive right now if Tousen had decided to use Kido instead of trying to stab him, or if he had beheaded him from the get go. So they do matter when they are used, but most of his opponents never used any power that put Kenpachi at a disadvantage.



    That Kenpachi has no skill is a fact.
    How he wants to enjoy a fight rather than being productive is also a fact.
    His lack of long range capabilities is also a fact.
    And so on. I have everything to back my claims, which don't require much. "Kenpachi is not that strong, he lacks skill and Shunsui wants him to be trained to be more productive in this war". I don't see why this is so hard to understand.
    That's their problem. What's the purpose of having a skillset if you're not gonna use it? I'm more debating in a sense that Kenpachi wouldn't have a hard time with long ranged attacks as you describe he would.

    Did you ever think that they're not using Kido because it actually couldn't do shit? When did you see that someone was beaten with Kido? You didn't. It's funny to me that I'm having a debate about Kido being able to actually put down an opponent.

    "That Kenpachi has no skill is a fact.
    How he wants to enjoy a fight rather than being productive is also a fact.
    His lack of long range capabilities is also a fact."

    How do these statements help your claims in downplaying him? They don't. As you see, you don't have shit to back up your claims. With the facts that you just said, he's still strong. Strong as hell in fact. You're the one who doesn't understand, that's the whole point. His brute strength was all he had to use to beat his opponents. He's THAT good. Or at least he was, because now he really has to learn something. Is that really hard to understand?
    Last edited by Roman; December 14, 2012 at 04:54 PM.

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  3. #737
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    & I gave you examples of how that logic can be flawed. Ichigo had much more reiatsu than Toshiro yet his full might couldn't do shit to Aizen while Toshiro can easily cut him with a simple sword slash.

    Another thing is, FGT had perfect control over his reiatsu so you using him as an example didn't make sense.

  4. #738
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    That's their problem. What's the purpose of having a skillset if you're not gonna use it? I'm more debating in a sense that Kenpachi wouldn't have a hard time with long ranged attacks as you describe he would.
    What is he going to do then? Slice at the air hoping his sword extends like Gins? There are many powerful long ranged characters in Bleach, and Kenpachi isn't one of them. With no Kido or even defensive capabilities he can just dodge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Did you ever think that they're not using Kido because it actually couldn't do shit? When did you see that someone was beaten with Kido? You didn't. It's funny to me that I'm having a debate about Kido being able to actually put down an opponent.
    Shunsui beat Chad with it, Yoruichi beat Soifon with it, Byakuya beat Renji and then Ichigo with it, Aizen beat Komamura with it, Kukaku beat one of the 4 guardians with it, Byakuya beat Zommari with it, Hachigen beat both Hollowfied Kensei and Mashiro with it, Hinamori beat the Tres Bestias with it, Hachigen beat Barragan with it, Urahara ultimately defeated Aizen with it. A Kido level 80 or higher is more than enough to bring down an opponent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    How do these statements help your claims in downplaying him? They don't. With the facts that you just said, he's strong. Strong as hell in fact. You're the one who doesn't understand, that's the whole point. His brute strength was all he had to use to beat his opponents. He's THAT good. Or at least he was, because now he really has to learn something. Is that really hard to understand?
    Once again contradicting what I said. He is strong in close combat and that's it. He has potential to be a good fighter but as he's now he can only beat some niche opponents. Saying this is not downplaying him. Saying that he can beat just about anyone with strength alone is overrating him.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  5. #739
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Torran View Post
    What is he going to do then? Slice at the air hoping his sword extends like Gins? There are many powerful long ranged characters in Bleach, and Kenpachi isn't one of them. With no Kido or even defensive capabilities he can just dodge.



    Shunsui beat Chad with it, Yoruichi beat Soifon with it, Byakuya beat Renji and then Ichigo with it, Aizen beat Komamura with it, Kukaku beat one of the 4 guardians with it, Byakuya beat Zommari with it, Hachigen beat both Hollowfied Kensei and Mashiro with it, Hinamori beat the Tres Bestias with it, Hachigen beat Barragan with it, Urahara ultimately defeated Aizen with it. A Kido level 80 or higher is more than enough to bring down an opponent.



    Once again contradicting what I said. He is strong in close combat and that's it. He has potential to be a good fighter but as he's now he can only beat some niche opponents. Saying this is not downplaying him. Saying that he can beat just about anyone with strength alone is overrating him.
    We didn't know what he was gonna do against Tousen and Nnoitra but he still did something which brought a win.

    The problem is that his opponents didn't use Kido, let alone a level 80 one. If he could sustain couple of swords pierced in him, I'm sure he could survive Byakuya's Kido or something similar.

    Tousen and Nnoitra weren't some niche opponents. They were pretty strong and he proved stronger. I never said that he could beat anyone. I'm saying that his abilities as a fighter let him beat his opponents with strength only. That's not overrating him, that's a pure fact. It's a pure fact that he's a beast. You can't go around it.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    & I gave you examples of how that logic can be flawed. Ichigo had much more reiatsu than Toshiro yet his full might couldn't do shit to Aizen while Toshiro can easily cut him with a simple sword slash.

    Another thing is, FGT had perfect control over his reiatsu so you using him as an example didn't make sense.
    Couldn't do shit to Aizen ? And what was that slash for ? Why did the Hogyoku began to heal Aizen huh ? Or it was for nothing right ? Also where did Toshiro cut Aizen huh ? He stabbed Hinamori, not Aizen as he fooled everyone with his KS

    FGT beyond having perfect control over his reiatsu had an amount of reiatsu that Godizen couldn't feel... It's you who doesn't make sense
    Last edited by Zehahaha; December 14, 2012 at 05:31 PM.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Zehahaha View Post
    Couldn't do shit to Aizen ? And what was that slash for ? Why did the Hogyoku began to heal Aizen huh ? Or it was for nothing right ? Also where did Toshiro cut Aizen huh ? He stabbed Hinamori, not Aizen as he fooled everyone with his KS

    FGT beyond having perfect control over his reiatsu had an amount of reiatsu that Godizen couldn't feel... It's you who doesn't make sense
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-46757-...apter-391.html Soifon who used her bankai ability twice already used her shikai & stabbed Aizen, Toshito frozen him, Shunsui stabbed him & Shinji stabbed him. Those four were capable to doing noticable damage to Aizen with no effort whatsoever.

    Here comes Ichigo with all his fight http://www.mangareader.net/94-48094-...apter-395.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-48494-...apter-396.html & all he did was http://www.mangareader.net/94-48494-...apter-396.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-48494-...apter-396.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-48494-...apter-396.html

    Captains who do use anywhere near Ichigo's reiatsu do far more damage to Aizen than Ichigo's full might (Bankai + Mask & full power GT). That's the example of someone who sucked at controlling his power.

    Also you really need to stop attempting to give be grief. You said "When there's a huge difference in reiatsu, things as mastery of skills and stuff doesn't matter, do you get it ? Ichigo FGT's reiatsu was so big, that even Aizen couldn't feel it..." & I said you used a flawed example because FGT Ichigo had perfect reiatsu control.

    In HM Ichigo couldn't handle Ulq's cero without the mask yet he took that same cero right to the body without his mask sometime later (Ulq complemented how he got stronger, or rather his control over his power improved). If you can't use your powers you are worthless.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-46757-...apter-391.html Soifon who used her bankai ability twice already used her shikai & stabbed Aizen, Toshito frozen him, Shunsui stabbed him & Shinji stabbed him. Those four were capable to doing noticable damage to Aizen with no effort whatsoever.
    ...
    Actually, that's not right. They were attacking Hinamori!

    Also, Aizen took Soifon's shikai attack to show her how useless her attacks were. Her supposedly "2-hit sure-kill" ability depends on the target having similar reiatsu. As Aizen said, it is a battle of reiatsu. You can have the most amazing ability in the world (2-hit sure-kill is pretty amazing!) but it's totally ineffective if your target has higher reiatsu than you do.

    So the point is, someone with really high reiatsu doesn't need any special abilities or skills at all in order to crush an opponent with complete mastery of their abilities, yet lacks a comparable reiatsu level.

  10. #743
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrs View Post
    Actually, that's not right. They were attacking Hinamori!

    Also, Aizen took Soifon's shikai attack to show her how useless her attacks were. Her supposedly "2-hit sure-kill" ability depends on the target having similar reiatsu. As Aizen said, it is a battle of reiatsu. You can have the most amazing ability in the world (2-hit sure-kill is pretty amazing!) but it's totally ineffective if your target has higher reiatsu than you do.

    So the point is, someone with really high reiatsu doesn't need any special abilities or skills at all in order to crush an opponent with complete mastery of their abilities, yet lacks a comparable reiatsu level.
    You're right about the Captains attacking Hinamori, but I'm pretty sure the Aizen Sui Feng stabbed was also an illusion. The illusion probably began when 'Aizen' was trapped by Hitsugaya's ice pillar.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-46757-...apter-391.html

    You can see on that page that 'Aizen' has injuries from both Sui Feng and Shunsui's attacks. Then we see here...

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-47010-...apter-392.html

    That he's completely unscathed. I know Kubo tends to stop drawing wounds midway through battles, but in this case it was deliberate.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    You're right about the Captains attacking Hinamori, but I'm pretty sure the Aizen Sui Feng stabbed was also an illusion. The illusion probably began when 'Aizen' was trapped by Hitsugaya's ice pillar.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-46757-...apter-391.html

    You can see on that page that 'Aizen' has injuries from both Sui Feng and Shunsui's attacks. Then we see here...

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-47010-...apter-392.html

    That he's completely unscathed. I know Kubo tends to stop drawing wounds midway through battles, but in this case it was deliberate.
    Well, the first time Soifon attacked Aizen, it wasn't an illusion because he said he only used Kyoka Suigetsu once. Plus the whole dialogue about Shinigami battles being a battle of reiatsu wouldn't make any sense if she only stabbed an illusion. But yes, later on they were fighting an illusion (or actually, Hinamori).

  12. #745
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    They were likely hitting air or something. Not every attack connected with Hinamori otherwise she would have died. That whole fight was insane because you don't know which aspects of the fight Aizen fudged with (lol).

    He didn't use KS once, he was using the whole damn time...he even said so.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    They were likely hitting air or something. Not every attack connected with Hinamori otherwise she would have died. That whole fight was insane because you don't know which aspects of the fight Aizen fudged with (lol).

    He didn't use KS once, he was using the whole damn time...he even said so.
    Well, he did say he only used it once. And when they wondered "since when," he said "since the beginning."

    The point I was making is that he wasn't using it to evade Soifon the first time she attacked him. Otherwise, his whole dialogue about Shinigami battles being battles of reiatsu would make no sense. Instead, he would've said it's a battle of abilities! ...since in that case, it would be Kyoka Suigetsu's ability versus Suzumebachi's ability. The point Aizen made is that Suzumebachi's ability was useless against him, since he had far more reiatsu than Soifon.

    And that's also why I would rank Shinji as more powerful than Soifon, because his ability did actually work against Aizen... but Aizen was smart enough to figure it out instantly, so it was still equally useless. But the ability working in the first place would indicate that Shinji has a higher level of reiatsu than Soifon. And since Aizen said Shinigami battles are battles of reiatsu, I would rank the power level of characters according to that. And only afterwards consider skills/abilities, if they have nearly the same reiatsu level.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrs View Post
    Actually, that's not right. They were attacking Hinamori!

    Also, Aizen took Soifon's shikai attack to show her how useless her attacks were. Her supposedly "2-hit sure-kill" ability depends on the target having similar reiatsu. As Aizen said, it is a battle of reiatsu. You can have the most amazing ability in the world (2-hit sure-kill is pretty amazing!) but it's totally ineffective if your target has higher reiatsu than you do.

    So the point is, someone with really high reiatsu doesn't need any special abilities or skills at all in order to crush an opponent with complete mastery of their abilities, yet lacks a comparable reiatsu level.
    Actually it was right. Read some pages after that http://www.mangareader.net/94-46757-...apter-391.html
    Shunsui stab was real, Shinji's illusion worked on Aizen for a short time, Soifon's attack went through Aizen & Toshiro stopped Aizen with his ice.

    Saying it's an illuion is not true otherwise Aizen wouldn't have THOUGHT "Shit". (oh & he commented on Toshiro in HIS THOUGHT).

    The real the damage went away is because of the Hogyoku (Aizen was going through a metamorphosis).

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Actually it was right. Read some pages after that http://www.mangareader.net/94-46757-...apter-391.html
    Shunsui stab was real, Shinji's illusion worked on Aizen for a short time, Soifon's attack went through Aizen & Toshiro stopped Aizen with his ice.

    Saying it's an illuion is not true otherwise Aizen wouldn't have THOUGHT "Shit". (oh & he commented on Toshiro in HIS THOUGHT).

    The real the damage went away is because of the Hogyoku (Aizen was going through a metamorphosis).

    Yet it's clearly mentioned afterwards that it was all an illusion. Aizen says "since when were you under the impression that I wasn't using KS?" and that was also meant to us, readers. It all seeming so fluent just underlines Aizen's mastery of KS's ability.
    REVOLUTION! FREEDOM!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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  17. #749
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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post

    Yet it's clearly mentioned afterwards that it was all an illusion. Aizen says "since when were you under the impression that I wasn't using KS?" and that was also meant to us, readers. It all seeming so fluent just underlines Aizen's mastery of KS's ability.
    When Aizen used his shikai is what he was referring to. Just because the shikai is activated doesn't mean he instantly had to change the perception his opponents.

    He makes them think what he wants them to think when he wants them to think it (& we clearly saw he didn't make them do such at the time he got stabbed & etc, it was when Toshiro was going to supposely deliver the final blow). It's not hard to understand really.

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    Re: Ranking of Captains

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    When Aizen used his shikai is what he was referring to. Just because the shikai is activated doesn't mean he instantly had to change the perception his opponents.

    He makes them think what he wants them to think when he wants them to think it (& we clearly saw he didn't make them do such at the time he got stabbed & etc, it was when Toshiro was going to supposely deliver the final blow). It's not hard to understand really.
    What does his shikai do, then? Serve them cookies? Confusing your opponents on this level isn't something you can do by talking and stuff like that, you actually need to change their perception!
    REVOLUTION! FREEDOM!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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