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Kubo said that Renjis Bankai have a new form already so I dont think that his power boost will be that big. His BK surelly will be more powerful when it be fixed, but still He have BK for only the same time as Ichigo and he is no Ichigo and no Hitsu he needs 10 years to get full control over his BK as for full power he needs a few centuries.
As for Koma I dont see what so different about hm in comparsion to the other captains. If the captains will attack him the can winn but if they would try to attack KTM I dont think that would be easy. I dont see hitsu freezing KTM with Hyoutn Hakkasou. I cant see how Byakuya could stop KTM's blade with senbonzakura kageyoshi and if he cant block its a problem since he never use shunpo when in Bankai of course its nothing weird since his blades could hit hem if he does and Snekei and Hakuteken would be useles. He could try kido but its not like Koma would stand in one place and let himself being Bakudoed.
I see no power difference between all the young captains. Zaraki will get more powerfull since Kubo for some reason seems to like him and than he will be up with the seniors but for now he is also nothing special just like everyone from Shinji to toshiro
i'm writing these ranks just with their powers of a pure shinigami (no hollowfication, hogyoku or whatsoever) and their best condition (no illness , aging etc.)
maybe the ranks change, when more informations are revealed, but with the facts until now there might some leveled and not to be splitted more detailed. i'd say
1. yamamoto - you know why... he is supposed to be the strongest. in his younger days, even more. and the thing why he got owned by bach is just that his bankai was stolen. and the loss against aizen was his wound against wonderweiss.
2. kurosaki isshin - with the logic, that he fought alone against aizen, and made him reach his limit as a shinigami. second, aizen owned the most captains of the gotei 13 as a shinigami, alone. and he mentioned that his powers were less than the incident, where he lost his powers 20 years ago.
3. aizen - as mentioned.. a badass by owning most of the gotei 13.
4. each zero division captains - of course combined, they are supposed to be stronger than the gotei 13, but their position is acknowledged included wiht their inventions too. so individually, i think they are a less superior than aizen.
5. sasakibe - he wasn't a captain but still, would be dishonoring, by not mentioning him. even though his bankai was stolen and died, the fact, that he achieved bankai so young, and without attending the genryu school, and making a scar to yamamoto in his younger days, makes him a badass, too.
6. unohana - being revealed as the first kenpachi, says it all
7. ukitake ,kyoraku, yoruichi and urahara - they didn't revelaed their bankais yet, but there will be reasons, as kyoraku's bankai should not be used when there are many people around. and thinking that ukitake and kyoraku are a duo. and still mysterious urahara with his kidous and knowledge and yoruichi's melee attacks and their bankai. i think, they all are in the same tier.
8. ichimaru gin - he fought and owned ichigo with his hollowfication mask. of course, ichigo was at a whimming phase, but still. and of course kicked aizen, if he wasn't with the hogyoku
9. byakuya and zaraki - their rivalies show, that they are even. but if zaraki learns even shikai, he might go between unohana and the quartett mentioned above.
10. hirako and otoribashi - they too, are still hiding their bankai. otoribashi showed some guts against the quincys, without his bankai.
11. hitsugaya - still young, but as kyoraku mentioned maybe in 100 years, he might overcome.
12. komamura, soifong, mayuri and kensei - not much to tell. strong heart, intelligence and will to fight, and their own agendas.
13. tousen and love - sorry but got owned against zaraki, and if there was no hollowfication, he would have been owned against komamura, too. and love, still without revelaing his bankai, just a hinch that their leveled
14. madarame and renji - they are not captains, but still achieved bankai, so i think they are worth mentioning.
Last edited by magicaurora; January 11, 2013 at 09:02 PM.
i wrote just as a pure shinigami, in the first sentence.
so no cero's and hollow powers. and grimmjow was back then a fallen sesta without resurrection and a arm.
still no convincing that hirako is stronger. but just my opinion.
don't need to be aggressive
the thing with tessai. he was in the kido corps. but still not revealed his zanpakto. and by watching hacchi, there might be none. so i ruled theim out. but if, hacchi and tessai might be on a level with unohana or a little above.
and the thing with soifong is tricky. i agree, but her bankai is limited, so. but she may be even with byakuya's level if she completes the shunko.
Then again, Kido usage isn't that frequent in a battle even for captain class Shinigami.
And I would hardly consider Grimmjow a noteworthy opponent. He is at most Nnoitra level, which is still far below the top four Espada.
Cutting Aizen was definitely a strong feat, though.
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The only things I could disagree with are (if I were to speak about my perceptions);
a) Hirako is probably above Rose.
b) Yoruichi is probably not on par with the other three, a tier below.
Hachi has a Zanpakuto. So we can assume that the same applies to other Kido Corps members including Tessai. But I would guess they are different from the soldiers of the Gotei 13 in that their Kido skills outweigh the powers of their Zanpakutos.
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Never mind. I found a clear picture of it now. He has indeed a Zanpakuto.
Tousen was talking about during that Grimmjow incident so Tousen decided he had to be executed. Grimmjow had disobeyed Aizen and sent his own followers to their deaths, which also went against the righteous path, so he deserved punishment.
Then it's his revenge part. Tousen's friend and another Shinigami were killed, and the guy responsible wasn't punished. What is justice? According to Tousen, forgiving somebody is virtuous, not just. Killing somebody responsible for the suffering of others is just. And if you go by the dictionary definition of "justice":
a : the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments
b : judge
c : the administration of law; especially : the establishment or determination of rights according to the rules of law or equity
a : the quality of being just, impartial, or fair
b (1) : the principle or ideal of just dealing or right action (2) : conformity to this principle or ideal : righteousness
Then justice is to punish the criminal responsible for two deaths. Some guy killed a Shinigami and his own wife, which in turn caused the suffering of their family and friends including Tousen? Then the killer must die or receive severe punishment. Tousen's logic with revenge is the pure unadulterated definition of justice. So again, there's no "trying to justify" here, Tousen has a firm belief of what justice is, and is going to follow it until the world ends. And then you say he doesn't like bloodshed even though he wants revenge, when in reality Tousen acknowledges that bloodshed is a necessary evil and he plans to follow the path with the least bloodshed. So in an ironic turn it's all just you trying to justify your claim by going against the very definition of such a widespread concept.
And I've got a few more points here, but I'm going to resume with them as soon as I get to that part where you mention Aizen.
Second, there's translations that say otherwise:
Flashback!Tousen: Oh, I have fear. // For the past hundred years, I have been afraid... / ...afraid of dying like the rest of you Shinigami.
In the sense that he didn't want to die as a Shinigami. Not just becoming a Shinigami, he even mentioned that next chapter, but DYING. He had a goal he felt was above himself, and that was to preserve justice for the sake of his friend, just like Gin didn't want to die because he felt he had to fulfill his promise to Rangiku. "Fear of death" doesn't actually translate directly to "afraid of dying", especially in the case of those two.
Third, Tousen wouldn't sacrifice himself for anybody without making sure his goal was fulfilled first. Justice is more important for him than anything else, and he's just following Aizen because he's the most just of the two parties. And now unto Aizen...
By the way, collateral damage for a greater cause is pretty much Soul Society's method of peace. You can say Aizen experimented with many Hollows and spirits (which didn't actually die), killed the Central 46 (will stop at nothing to preserve order, which doesn't translate to just) and wanted to use 100,000 souls for the key (which was not actually killing them, but creating new life, which doesn't look like much considering how Soul Society won't hesitate to kill 30,000 souls without or millions of Hollows or mod souls).
Remember all those Quincy? They faced systematic genocide and the few survivors were
Remember the mod souls? All destroyed against their will despite being no different than normal souls.
Remember all those misfit Shinigami? Imprisoned against their will for the rest of their lives despite not doing anything.
All those Hollow who give up on eating souls and try to leave peacefully in groups or alone? Killed alongside normal hollows without discrimination.
A substitute Shinigami appears? Lie to him and use him as bait, then kill him.
Citizens of Rukongai? Soul Society is a hellhole with no effort from the Shinigami to improve them.
A potential threat appears? Kill kill kill!
Meanwhile, what did Aizen do? He wanted to kill the Soul Kings and change the world to how it should be. Remember how he asked Urahara why he didn't take action? It implies that Aizen didn't think that only himself could make a change. This was a great motivation for many Shinigami and Hollows. All those misfit Shinigami who would be forced to imprisonment? Aizen recruited them, made them feel safer. All those Hollows in constant fear of being killed by either Shinigami or other Hollow, who were always forced to survive in a barren wasteland? Aizen gave them a home, security and a purpose. To him everybody was equal, no discrimination or any other view the Shinigami had. And then, when he was faced with the remaining Gotei 13? He didn't kill them, because he didn't have to, he allowed them to live because his only target for a hundred years had been the Soul King. Remember Tousen's words? If you do, then good, you will see how Aizen's path is the most righteous, not without some questionable actions, but still better than the Gotei's nonetheless. Aizen was a man of action, not words. If he said something was because he would do it and he did follow through until Ichigo got in way, and that's what convinced Tousen.
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Equity and fairness is justice.
Dictionary definition for justice:
Equity and fairness is justice.
Also: Senseless bloodshed: Bad. Bloodshed for a just reason: Righteous. It's not hard to understand at all.
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Daaamn, tl;dr. For Tousen it was justice, but his version of justice was corrupted and wrong. Your whole post doesn't change anything.Quote:
Do you know what "IMO" means? You can't prove to me, that he's stronger as well. ^^Quote:
In terms of intelligence, he is an idiot. When it comes to fighting, he is experienced fighter, but not intelligent.Quote:
If that translation is correct than I might agree with that ONE panel, out of 2 you showed. Translation is to be blamed then.Quote:
Last edited by Duniak; January 12, 2013 at 04:01 PM.