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Thread: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    He MADE it his zanpakutou. Just like Zaraki MADE his sword his zanpakutou.

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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    OMFG your not looking at the picture below your just saying what you want to say without looking at http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/148/09/


    he picks up the sword from the flowers and is using that through out the series if you don't believe me look really closely at the sword on the bed of flowers before especially at the hilt with the ring through it and when he picks it up
    Last edited by JioFreed666; October 28, 2007 at 12:03 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    OMFG your not looking at the picture below your just saying what you want to say without looking at http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/148/09/
    <hr noshade size="1">
    he picks up the sword from the flowers and is using that through out the series if you don't believe me look really closely at the sword on the bed of flowers before especially at the hilt with the ring through it and when he picks it up
    I dont think your getting the point ,he's saying Kenpachi had a sword before he became a shinigami, which he used as his sword thus he made a non Zanpaktou into a Zanpaktou , and with Tousen he made anothers Zanpaktou into HIS Zanpaktou.However im just explaining personally i think Tousen has another Zanpaktou . Why?
    Because when Ichigo inherited Rukias Sword, he wasnt using his own sword , it was rukias and he had the ability to bring forth his own sword from his own shinigami powers.

  4. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Quote Originally Posted by KingPopo View Post
    I dont think your getting the point ,he's saying Kenpachi had a sword before he became a shinigami, which he used as his sword thus he made a non Zanpaktou into a Zanpaktou , and with Tousen he made anothers Zanpaktou into HIS Zanpaktou.However im just explaining personally i think Tousen has another Zanpaktou . Why?
    Yeah, I've been trying to explain it for the whole thread, but he hasn't gotten the point yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingPopo View Post
    Because when Ichigo inherited Rukias Sword, he wasnt using his own sword , it was rukias and he had the ability to bring forth his own sword from his own shinigami powers.
    Ichigo's zanpakutou did not change at all when he regained his shinigami powers. It was still a big fat sword with the same design, and it was still broken. The whole Ichigo was using Rukia's zanpakutou theory is incorrect, he was always using Zangetsu.

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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Well the sword choses its owner and appears to them when the time is right, its quite possible that that sword chose tousen to be its new user or that tousens power is now fused with that sword. Simple way of explaining it i guess.

  6. #21
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    well but after the owner of the zanpakutou die. Who is the swordsman ? no one so maybe the soul inside in the zanpakutou is gone or can be take be anyone

  7. #22
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member dreamzsai's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    A zanpakutō spirit are part of its owner's soul,[1] and often share the same personality traits.[2] At the same time, however, they are also independent, and thus can be considered a shinigami's partner in battle. Because they are part of their owner's soul, a zanpakutō cannot be replaced, though it will slowly regenerate if broken.[3] As a shinigami gains power, their zanpakutō can change form by allowing the inner being to manifest itself to a greater degree in the outside world. The sword and the inner being are synonymous to each other. No matter what form (or size) a zanpakutō takes, it is always virtually effortless for its owner to wield because it is a part of its owner's soul.[4] On the other hand, it is much more difficult for a shinigami to wield a zanpakutō that is not their own, though Kaname Tōsen is the only character in the series to actually do such a thing
    Nuff said, Tousen probably has his own Zanpaktou that hasnt been shown to us (unless u are convinced that the wooden katana he used in training is his original zanpaktou)

  8. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamzsai View Post
    Nuff said, Tousen probably has his own Zanpaktou that hasnt been shown to us (unless u are convinced that the wooden katana he used in training is his original zanpaktou)
    That quote doesn't say anything that hasn't been said already. Tousen would not be able to release, etc. if he hadn't made her zanpakutou his own. Kenpachi also would have a different zanpakutou, and the one he is currently using wouldn't be able to heal itself, which it already has.

  9. #24
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    I tried to answer the question we've been pondering in another thread on the nature of zanpakutos themselves, rather than just this specific case.

    While my case is more exstensively made within the other thread, in summary it is this. Within the normal realm of progression from academy student to shinigami, the individual is given a bare, soulless sword. Over time, with training and power, the shinigami is able to make that bare soulless sword an extension of themselves, which is personified by the avatar that represents their shinigami powers within themselves. This also extends out to the unique shape their sealed zanpakuto takes after such an event occurs. Note that all standard shinigami have the same normal, bare katanas.

    In this context, I would submit that tousen took up his dead shinigami friend's sword, which was already changed from the bare form, but no longer had a soul connected to it, and his soul adapted it or took on personification based upon the change that had already been made. If we look at the simple fact that tousen's shikai and bankai play solely to his strengths, that alone should prove that it is his shinigami powers, and there is no other sword. Tousen's sword is no longer his dead friend's, but his own, and as his powers have developed, so to has the sword developed in line with his shinigami powers.

  10. #25
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member dreamzsai's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    That quote doesn't say anything that hasn't been said already. Tousen would not be able to release, etc. if he hadn't made her zanpakutou his own. Kenpachi also would have a different zanpakutou, and the one he is currently using wouldn't be able to heal itself, which it already has.
    With " zanpakutō spirit are part of its owner's soul", we can deduce that everyone HAS a zanpaktou of their own to being with.

    Ichigo thus is wielding his own Zanpaktou from the start, Tousen has his own Zanpaktou but picked up on his friend's somewhere in the story, Kenpachi has his own Zanpaktou and is using it unless he actually picked up one and wasnt shown to us.

    We'd nv know if Tousen can actually cant release if not for the new Zanpaktou, since we havent been shown anything much about it.

  11. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Vegetoacs pretty much summed up everything into a short explanation. Tousen DOES NOT have another zanpakutou, that would just be stupid.

  12. #27
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Dantrag's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    I too don't see the problem with the sword that Tousen took from the dead woman he admired, having become his own zanpakutou. Since we know that the spirit inhabiting the zanpakutou is part of the soul of the Shinigami, thus when the shinigami dies, the spirit of the zanpakutou is gone as well. Thus the zanpakutou was an empty husk just like the womans dead body.

    I don't think it's too far fetched that the spirit of Tousen's zanpakutou would simply reside in that empty husk, keeping it's form subconciously in honor of the woman Tousen loved and admired. Even the shikai and bankai of that sword fit Tousen and his abilities very well so I don't see a point behind the theory of him having another zanpakutou.

  13. #28
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Alexis's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    I think several people already summed up pretty well why that sword could be Tousen's one and only zanpaktou, so I'll leave it at that.
    But even through Tousen can take a zanpaktou that previously belonged to someone else (which probably is not a trait unique to him, but if we assume that it is) then why would he even have or need another Zanpaktou? Why wouldn't he be satified with that one?

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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexis View Post
    I think several people already summed up pretty well why that sword could be Tousen's one and only zanpaktou, so I'll leave it at that.
    But even through Tousen can take a zanpaktou that previously belonged to someone else (which probably is not a trait unique to him, but if we assume that it is) then why would he even have or need another Zanpaktou? Why wouldn't he be satified with that one?
    Okay reviving an old topic that I partly forgot about

    To catch anyone up:
    We had a discussion if by taking the dead women's sword is it now Tousen's own personal zanpakuto I believe tousen has his own Zanpakuto while people say since the woman died her soul is gone. As to answer Alexis question, because his Zanpakuto might being one only meant to kill and he wants to take the path of less blood shed

    This might become the focus for a future chapter in this new gaiden arc is one reason I bring this up again.

    Also I want to start talking about the other subject of this thread. Ichigo really needs a step up or something again in power especially if he's going after the top 4 Espada one who owned him twice and Aizen and his trusted Shinigami Gin and Tousen and even Wonderweiss.

    The reason I say it's not his own Zanpakuto:
    because the women's soul is still there even if it's been reincarnated it's still there
    Last edited by JioFreed666; May 02, 2008 at 02:21 AM. Reason: Zanpakuto

  15. #30
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member someguy0830's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen's real sword and Ichigo's step up

    Yes, that is his zanpakuto. She died, reincarnated as a new powerless soul, and Tousen took her sword. He doesn't have a second one, unless he's been hiding it in a private place all this time.

    All glory to the Hypnotoad!

    It is ridiculous to think that video games influence children. If Pac-Man affected kids born in the eighties, we should have a generation of teenagers who run around in darkened rooms and eat pills while listening to monotonous music.

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