Is Zaraki Kenpachi permanently in Shikai or not?

[TheChosenOne]

There has been a lot of arguments and theory why Zaraki's zanpakto is not shikai/ is shikai.
The manga/anime does not come right out at say that Zaraki has Shikai/ No shikai.

The two instances where his shikai is talked about is. :

When Ichigo boasted that he could use his sword to beat Zaraki. Zaraki said "this is my swords true form" Zaraki never used the word Shikai to describe the sword true form.

The Second instance happened when Yourichi was telling Ichigo about bankai. When Yourichi says that Ichigo's Zanpak is a full time sword, he says "Like Zaraki Kenpachi".
But Yourichi does not agree nor disagree with Ichigo

Discuss your opinion and please have some evidence to back your theory/opinion.

Any body with authorization, please delete the word Bankai from my thread, since this post is not a discussion for that.
changed the title to fit the thread better ~ttx

[JioFreed666]

I want to know how Yourichi supports it she just gose to explain how shikai is not the highest power anyway Kenpachi from day one never listened to his sword and even if it is a reflection it dosen't want to be just used and toss like a napkin when a guy has a bit of the rosy palm

[akward_silense]

for any shinigami to obtain shikai, he must first learn to comunicate with his zanpakuto and learn it's name. Even Ichigo had to meet with Zangetsu to obtain his shikai wether he leaves it in that state or not. At the end of Ichigo and Kenpachi's battle, Kenpachi tried to talk to his Zanpakuto, telling us that he has never spoken to it, therefore how could he even have a shikai to stay in in the first place. Kenpachi says that this is his swords true form because there is (for then anyway) no known state beyond that. Kanpachi had no shikai because his body was strong but not his mind and he was cool with not having it because he was THE strongest but then he met Ichigo so I think we can expect to see some growth out of our old friend and maybe a name and release.

[Neuroff]

The databook says that Kenpachi's zanpakutou is in Shikai. You can't go against that.

[JioFreed666]

for any shinigami to obtain shikai, he must first learn to comunicate with his zanpakuto and learn it's name. Even Ichigo had to meet with Zangetsu to obtain his shikai wether he leaves it in that state or not. At the end of Ichigo and Kenpachi's battle, Kenpachi tried to talk to his Zanpakuto, telling us that he has never spoken to it, therefore how could he even have a shikai to stay in in the first place. Kenpachi says that this is his swords true form because there is (for then anyway) no known state beyond that. Kanpachi had no shikai because his body was strong but not his mind and he was cool with not having it because he was THE strongest but then he met Ichigo so I think we can expect to see some growth out of our old friend and maybe a name and release.

Thank you for explainning that but these guys want to believe just because Ichigo an experienced Shinigami thinks that Kenpachi's was already in Shikai, and thing that Yourichi back that up and that it's solidfited in a data book which was co written with tite

[akward_silense]

*grumbles and lowers head in shame* I'm apparently not aware of this data book you speak of.............I thought I had a good argument though.........

[JioFreed666]

The databook says that Kenpachi's zanpakutou is in Shikai. You can't go against that.

I can if it original said in the manga that it requires that you know your zanpakutos name which is said repeatedly through out the manga before bankai is introduced

---

*grumbles and lowers head in shame* I'm apparently not aware of this data book you speak of.............I thought I had a good argument though.........

Don't worry the canonical standing of that book is under question since it appears to be co writtened when it's a known fact that tite dose his own story

[Neuroff]

I can if it original said in the manga that it requires that you know your zanpakutos name which is said repeatedly through out the manga before bankai is introduced

Repeatedly? I only see Yoruichi saying it in chapter 127. She doesn't even say you need to know its name. "You need communication and synchronization with your soul cutter to achieve the initial release."

Then there is specific evidence that Kenpachi's zanpakutou is in shikai in chapters 109 and 120.

Chapter 109 page 17:
Kenpachi: This is the only form of my sword. I didn't put any seal on it.

Having no seal on a zanpakutou means that it is released, and you can see that Ichigo knows this from what he says in chapter 120.

Chapter 120 page 7:
Yoruichi: Have you ever noticed that your Zangetsu is always in its released form?
Ichigo: Really? So it's like Kenpachi's Soul Cutter?

Don't worry the canonical standing of that book is under question since it appears to be co writtened when it's a known fact that tite dose his own story

Where did you get that from? Even IF someone helped write parts of the databook, Kubo would not just release it without even looking at what had been written. If Kenpachi's zanpakutou wasn't released, it would say that in the databook.

[JioFreed666]

Repeatedly? I only see Yoruichi saying it in chapter 127. She doesn't even say you need to know its name. "You need communication and synchronization with your soul cutter to achieve the initial release."

Then there is specific evidence that Kenpachi's zanpakutou is in shikai in chapters 109 and 120.

Chapter 109 page 17:
Kenpachi: This is the only form of my sword. I didn't put any seal on it.

Having no seal on a zanpakutou means that it is released, and you can see that Ichigo knows this from what he says in chapter 120.

Chapter 120 page 7:
Yoruichi: Have you ever noticed that your Zangetsu is always in its released form?
Ichigo: Really? So it's like Kenpachi's Soul Cutter?


Where did you get that from? Even IF someone helped write parts of the databook, Kubo would not just release it without even looking at what had been written. If Kenpachi's zanpakutou wasn't released, it would say that in the databook.

alright let's go down the list and explain this
First point he dosen't need to be syncoed with his for the simple fact he uses brute force to cut his enemy plus centering his reitsu into his sword but that dosen't require synco like it dose for ichigo which against some one who's trained as hard as Kenpachi that's fight countless enemies with zanpakuto he would develop something along the lines of Iron skin

Chapter 109 page 17: this is my swords ONLY form
meaning no higher no lower and since he can remember that has been his only form

chapter 120
she dosen't response just kept going with her lecture and if your telling me that ichigo knows more then yourichi you can get the hell out now because remember learning bankai in 3 days instead of 10 years is hard to teach and remember ichigo was actually late when he finally finished his training

Some people don't check it's called misplace trust and some people believe fans won't make big deals of small facts

[_ATMA]

alright let's go down the list and explain this
Chapter 109 page 17: this is my swords ONLY form
meaning no higher no lower and since he can remember that has been his only form

if i recall after ichigo and zaraki fight with each other and zarki is laying there looking at his broken zanpaktu and hes laying there crying and talking to it asking it to tell him his name i think the only reason he says "my sword only form" is beacuse hes just ignorant enough to think of that i but that view of his the "only" form was before fighting ichigo and realizing the new level he can achieve just by knowing the name of his zanpaktu and working together with it instead of completely relying on his own power. after the fight he has a different view and opinion of the situation but the fact remains its a full time release

[Neuroff]

alright let's go down the list and explain this
First point he dosen't need to be syncoed with his for the simple fact he uses brute force to cut his enemy plus centering his reitsu into his sword but that dosen't require synco like it dose for ichigo which against some one who's trained as hard as Kenpachi that's fight countless enemies with zanpakuto he would develop something along the lines of Iron skin

I don't even see your point here. The fact is that Yoruichi never actually says you need to know the zanpakutou's name.

Chapter 109 page 17: this is my swords ONLY form
meaning no higher no lower and since he can remember that has been his only form

More like it's permanently released so it doesn't change forms any more.

chapter 120
she dosen't response just kept going with her lecture and if your telling me that ichigo knows more then yourichi you can get the hell out now because remember learning bankai in 3 days instead of 10 years is hard to teach and remember ichigo was actually late when he finally finished his training

1. Yoruichi would have said something if Ichigo was wrong.
2. Hard to teach? Yoruichi did nothing but keep the zanpakutou materialized. There was no teaching involved in it.
3. Ichigo late? He got bankai in TWO days.

Some people don't check it's called misplace trust and some people believe fans won't make big deals of small facts

Before I even get into this, where is your proof that there's a co-author?

[JioFreed666]

AH! this is why I personally don't like people who jump in late RENJI say it the first time he appears so I think people would have gotten the point back then

.........before you speak again look at what your saying then look at Ichigo going from Original broad katana to Hiltless cleaver to normal thickness long katana and back to the hiltless sword.......so don't tell me permanently release

1.Not everyone corrects people
2.She has to keep it materialized with her on reitsu and check his progress
3.I forgot Rukia's execution was moved up one day but he was still late

[Neuroff]

AH! this is why I personally don't like people who jump in late RENJI say it the first time he appears so I think people would have gotten the point back then

.........before you speak again look at what your saying then look at Ichigo going from Original broad katana to Hiltless cleaver to normal thickness long katana and back to the hiltless sword.......so don't tell me permanently release

??? Once Ichigo first gets Zangetsu into Shikai, it NEVER goes back into its sealed state. What are you talking about?

1.Not everyone corrects people

If Kubo wanted people to know Zaraki wasn't actually in shikai, then yes, she would have said something.

2.She has to keep it materialized with her on reitsu and check his progress

And that has absolutely nothing to do with teaching.

3.I forgot Rukia's execution was moved up one day but he was still late

Tell me how finishing something in 2 days that's supposed to take three days is late?

And bring out a source that shows that the databook was co-written by another author.

[JioFreed666]

??? Once Ichigo first gets Zangetsu into Shikai, it NEVER goes back into its sealed state. What are you talking about?

I'm talking about once it goes to bankai and if kenpachi's is supposedly in permanently shikai why can ICHIGO goes from shikai and higher then back if permanently suppose to be stuck in an unreleased state meaning ichigo should be permently stuck in bankai or not be able to go bankai at all

If Kubo wanted people to know Zaraki wasn't actually in shikai, then yes, she would have said something.

HE kubo tite is a dude and because he doesn't care as much as people like Musashi (Naruto's maker) to mention facts like before unless he's asked the question because everyone wanted to know why zombie powder was stopped...

And that has absolutely nothing to do with teaching.

Okay teaching wasn't the right words to say "helping the process more then anyone else who was an ally at the moment would" is the right term

Tell me how finishing something in 2 days that's supposed to take three days is late?

it's suppose to take 10 years but still he was late on being there before rukia's execution started which is his original promise

And bring out a source that shows that the databook was co-written by another author.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/587...s024025lu3.png
clearly says Morita Masakazu on bonus track showing that there was at least one co author

[Neuroff]

I'm talking about once it goes to bankai and if kenpachi's is supposedly in permanently shikai why can ICHIGO goes from shikai and higher then back if permanently suppose to be stuck in an unreleased state meaning ichigo should be permently stuck in bankai or not be able to go bankai at all

She said they are permanently released. Shikai and bankai are both states of release. As Zangetsu never goes back into its sealed state, there is no argument here.

HE kubo tite is a dude and because he doesn't care as much as people like Musashi (Naruto's maker) to mention facts like before unless he's asked the question because everyone wanted to know why zombie powder was stopped...

She is obviously referring to Yoruichi, not Kubo. Kubo went out of his way to mention that Zaraki's sword was unsealed. So yes, he did mention it before he was asked.

Okay teaching wasn't the right words to say "helping the process more then anyone else who was an ally at the moment would" is the right term

And this has nothing to do with anything.

it's suppose to take 10 years but still he was late on being there before rukia's execution started which is his original promise

He got there before Rukia was executed, he wasn't late.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/587...s024025lu3.png
clearly says Morita Masakazu on bonus track showing that there was at least one co author

Lol... that part of the databook is called "TALK OF BLEACH." It's obviously a conversation/interview between Morita Masakazu and Kubo Tite. You can't have a talk with nobody. If Morita Masakazu was a co-author, he wouldn't only be credited for that one section.