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Thread: Two types of Vaizards, or not?

  1. #16
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member deathgod6664820's Avatar
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    hollowfication, do you guys see this?

    kubo makes me confused about the vizard, vl and Shirosaki power.

    first the vl, i dont think shirosaki is a vl because a hollow must eat alot of other hollow to reach the level of vl, now we already know that but a hollow menos grande has three levels that we know of and there powers are hollow, nothing to do with shimigami. well shirosaki welds zangetsu a zanpaktou something we havent seen any class of hollow do, he welds him in the innerworld and in ss. making shirosaki not a real hollow but samilar.

    now the vizard and there power, yes they can use hollow powers but during ichigo's vizard training mashiro ask love why not hide ichi's zanpaktou love says "no point, it would just needlessly increase the radius of destruction"(chapter 218 pg13) (which would mean that ichi would blow everything around him away to he finds it rite).

    so even tho ichi full hollow transformation was a dud(meaning that ichi or shirosaki was not controling the body instinct was) it was still aware of zangetsu's power and another thing is it didnt fully transform to ichi and shirosaki went bankai in the innerworld battle. so this makes me believe that vizard powers shikai is with just the mask on and vizard powers bankai(full hollow transformation) is the full release of the hollow inside them. nothing like arrancar's ression's(spell it wrong i know) which seal's there true hollow power in a zanpaktou.

    now my problem is we know that all the vizard's did the same training as ichigo, they defeated there hollow's in there innerworld while the other vizards battle the dud's in the really world.

    so where was kensei and mashiro's zanpaktou when they fully transformed?
    during the turn back the pendulum arc when they battle the other vizards they didnt have a zanpaktou but before kensei got cut he had he's zanpaktou in he's hand. hiyori had her zanpaktou in hand but she didnt fully transform neither did shinji.

    kensei and mashiro had all the time they needed to find there zanpaktou if they lost them but if you think like me then you would say they perform a ression or maybe they sealed there hollow with there soul and when there hollow powers are fully released there shinigimi powers are sealed.

    but ichigo is a true hybird and his hollow and shinigimi powers are the same, meaning that maybe the other vizard's have a switch for full hollow transformation(when powers are all hollow know shinigimi power) and shinigimi ( when powers are shinigimi know hollow) and only can use both shini and hollow when they are base shinigimi(seal zanpaktou)and mask(not full hollow transformation). remember shinji and co got there hollow powers, ichigo was born with his

    if not then why is ichigo the only one to keep his zanpaktou during full hollow transformation? is this because ichigo's a true hybird? does this mean that ichi has second release of his hollow powers like ulq?

    thus making me confused because it dont add up for me at all.

    help does anybody see it my way or does this mean im over thinking things.

  2. #17
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    WSJ Pirate Re: hollowfication, do you guys see this?

    Quote Originally Posted by deathgod6664820 View Post
    kubo makes me confused about the vizard, vl and Shirosaki power.

    first the vl, i dont think shirosaki is a vl because a hollow must eat alot of other hollow to reach the level of vl, now we already know that but a hollow menos grande has three levels that we know of and there powers are hollow, nothing to do with shimigami. well shirosaki welds zangetsu a zanpaktou something we havent seen any class of hollow do, he welds him in the innerworld and in ss. making shirosaki not a real hollow but samilar.

    now the vizard and there power, yes they can use hollow powers but during ichigo's vizard training mashiro ask love why not hide ichi's zanpaktou love says "no point, it would just needlessly increase the radius of destruction"(chapter 218 pg13) (which would mean that ichi would blow everything around him away to he finds it rite).

    so even tho ichi full hollow transformation was a dud(meaning that ichi or shirosaki was not controling the body instinct was) it was still aware of zangetsu's power and another thing is it didnt fully transform to ichi and shirosaki went bankai in the innerworld battle. so this makes me believe that vizard powers shikai is with just the mask on and vizard powers bankai(full hollow transformation) is the full release of the hollow inside them. nothing like arrancar's ression's(spell it wrong i know) which seal's there true hollow power in a zanpaktou.

    now my problem is we know that all the vizard's did the same training as ichigo, they defeated there hollow's in there innerworld while the other vizards battle the dud's in the really world.

    so where was kensei and mashiro's zanpaktou when they fully transformed?
    during the turn back the pendulum arc when they battle the other vizards they didnt have a zanpaktou but before kensei got cut he had he's zanpaktou in he's hand. hiyori had her zanpaktou in hand but she didnt fully transform neither did shinji.

    kensei and mashiro had all the time they needed to find there zanpaktou if they lost them but if you think like me then you would say they perform a ression or maybe they sealed there hollow with there soul and when there hollow powers are fully released there shinigimi powers are sealed.

    but ichigo is a true hybird and his hollow and shinigimi powers are the same, meaning that maybe the other vizard's have a switch for full hollow transformation(when powers are all hollow know shinigimi power) and shinigimi ( when powers are shinigimi know hollow) and only can use both shini and hollow when they are base shinigimi(seal zanpaktou)and mask(not full hollow transformation). remember shinji and co got there hollow powers, ichigo was born with his

    if not then why is ichigo the only one to keep his zanpaktou during full hollow transformation? is this because ichigo's a true hybird? does this mean that ichi has second release of his hollow powers like ulq?

    thus making me confused because it dont add up for me at all.

    help does anybody see it my way or does this mean im over thinking things.
    the vizards arent perfect hybrid they were just one of aizens experiments that urahara kept alive but ichigo either he was born that way or he is uraharas project and we already know urahara created the best object to make a hybrid 100 years ago so he may have created something even better in those 100 years

  3. #18
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: hollowfication, do you guys see this?

    Quote Originally Posted by juice88 View Post
    the vizards arent perfect hybrid they were just one of aizens experiments that urahara kept alive but ichigo either he was born that way or he is uraharas project and we already know urahara created the best object to make a hybrid 100 years ago so he may have created something even better in those 100 years
    Urahara did his best to destroy the hyogoku. I sincerely doubt it would be coherent on his part to actually create another object which would create even better hybrids lol. For all we know urahara actually regretted creating the orb lol.

  4. #19
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Two types of Vaizards, or not?

    I don't really think that the way u become vizard means that you r a different kind of vaizard.......
    I mean: __Shinji group were visored by Aizen's substance,and used hougyouku later(just to try to stabilize the situation.....didn't work)
    __Ichigo were visored while gaining shinigami power
    __Aizen,Gin and co....like Shinji group they could be visored by the substance or directly by a momentary awakened hougyouku which would mean a third type of vizard
    __If the hougyoku was naturally fully awakened,what kind of vizard would we have?type number 4....


    PS
    If Aizen isn't a vizard and if the hougyouku is now fully awakened,I would bet that is he going to use it......however right now is pointless to talk about different type of vizard...

  5. #20
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member no_regretsYSL's Avatar
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    The true meaning of "Hollowification"

    CREATING THE PERFECT VAIZARd = The result of Hollowification

    I think the Hollowification in the latest chapters of Bleach are to Ichigo as Kensei's was 100 years ago.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FFr_CL_FHP...h210-00023.jpg

    Not the form training with the Vaizards.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/222/02/

    I think the above form is a full Hollow not a full Vaizard, the true result of Hollowification, given the skin color in the anime version, and that I'm sure Ichigo has his normal skin tone in the manga other than his head. I know the Vaizards of the past looked like they had a mask, and an over-developed part of their body they shot their cero from. I.e. Kenseis' over-hollowed part of his body was his arms, and Mashiro's were her legs, but they still had human body parts and skin tone.

    Now Ichigo is fully "Hollowified" and the over-hollowed part of his body is his head, where he shoots his cero. I'm just discussing all this to clarify the term "Hollowification". In case anyone thought Ichigo's current form was a new way of being a vaizard. And a good way of think what part of the other vaizards would be emphasized.
    Last edited by no_regretsYSL; March 27, 2009 at 12:35 AM.
    Often I find myself playing a little game called "What are the odds?"


    Life long member of the "I hate smileys because all you do is look like a sarcastic !@#$%^&" group aka. "Words Are Stronger Than Punctuation"

  6. #21
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: The true meaning of "Hollowification"

    This is my opinion:
    As we know a shinigamis power is manifested as a spirit within a soul which in general is the zampakuto. Given that a shinigamis power has a living form, if a power of different nature is acquired, it will be added to that he originally had as another living spirit. Given that this new power has a will of its own, it will also have the ability to grow. This is pretty much my interpretation of what shirosaki showed us and what happened inside the other vizards. This would also explain why arrancar dont have inner shinigami, since their power didnt have a living form to begin with.

    Now, shirosaki said this a long time ago:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/20/
    He explained how the shape of the outer body changes as the controller of the body changes. The result of shirosaki growing stronger was him being the outer body. Now, what is ichigo and what is shirosaki? Ichigos form was that of a shinigami with hollow powers(shinigami with a hollow mask), while shirosaki who represents ichigos hollow powers, is a hollow with shinigami powers(hollow with a zampakuto).

    Considering that, it is my firm belive that what is happening to ichigo right now, is the result of shirosaki taking over. Also note what happened now is remamkably similar to what happened during ichigos vizard training, when shirosaki almost took over. Also look at this:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/222/04/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/350/14/
    The pattern hollow ichigo ceros form is remarkably similar in both hollow forms suggesting that at least the transformations are alike.

  7. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Onomatopoeia's Avatar
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    Re: Two types of Vaizards, or not?

    You know...crazy thought here but... SHinji and Hiyori's eyes aren't the same while in VZ mode

    ...Hiyori has lighter eyes then Shinji's while in VZ mode and she has a lighter shade of eye color when she's not in VZ mode. Ichigo has an even lighter shade of eye color when human then both of them. Same with in VZ mode. Anyone see where I'm going with this?

    Also yes the Anime can mess up the plot of Bleach, quite easily in fact.

  8. #23
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member no_regretsYSL's Avatar
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    Re: The true meaning of "Hollowification"

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    This is my opinion:
    As we know a shinigamis power is manifested as a spirit within a soul which in general is the zampakuto. Given that a shinigamis power has a living form, if a power of different nature is acquired, it will be added to that he originally had as another living spirit. Given that this new power has a will of its own, it will also have the ability to grow. This is pretty much my interpretation of what shirosaki showed us and what happened inside the other vizards. This would also explain why arrancar dont have inner shinigami, since their power didnt have a living form to begin with.

    Now, shirosaki said this a long time ago:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/20/
    He explained how the shape of the outer body changes as the controller of the body changes. The result of shirosaki growing stronger was him being the outer body. Now, what is ichigo and what is shirosaki? Ichigos form was that of a shinigami with hollow powers(shinigami with a hollow mask), while shirosaki who represents ichigos hollow powers, is a hollow with shinigami powers(hollow with a zampakuto).

    Considering that, it is my firm belive that what is happening to ichigo right now, is the result of shirosaki taking over. Also note what happened now is remamkably similar to what happened during ichigos vizard training, when shirosaki almost took over. Also look at this:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/222/04/
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/350/14/
    The pattern hollow ichigo ceros form is remarkably similar in both hollow forms suggesting that at least the transformations are alike.
    I still think the Vaizard training Ichigo was a full hollow and his newest form is full Vaizard like Kensei back in the day. The fact that they have hollow similarities is necesseary to show Ichigo has the best of both worlds.
    Often I find myself playing a little game called "What are the odds?"


    Life long member of the "I hate smileys because all you do is look like a sarcastic !@#$%^&" group aka. "Words Are Stronger Than Punctuation"

  9. #24
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member KanouYuuki's Avatar
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    Re: The true meaning of "Hollowification"

    I know this is an old, and probably dead thread, but I couldn't help but answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    This is my opinion:
    As we know a shinigamis power is manifested as a spirit within a soul which in general is the zampakuto. Given that a shinigamis power has a living form, if a power of different nature is acquired, it will be added to that he originally had as another living spirit. Given that this new power has a will of its own, it will also have the ability to grow. This is pretty much my interpretation of what shirosaki showed us and what happened inside the other vizards. This would also explain why arrancar dont have inner shinigami, since their power didnt have a living form to begin with.

    I think you're right. Ichigo had golden eyes just as Shirosaki had as a result of being not in control.
    Hiyori was too. In the TBTP arc.
    Spoiler show



    Or maybe it's just the anime, making the colors up. :P <---(Most likely for me)
    I think they all have golden eyes when they go hollow mode.

  10. #25
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member union98's Avatar
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    Re: Two types of Vaizards, or not?

    I think it's just the anime...I think Kubo just like drawing people different because I guess technically Ginjo had hollow powers and his eyes were purple or something in the anime and just black with white pupils I think in the manga. I don't think this is something to read too much into. I do think it's interesting, however, that Shinji and them can remove their masks at will...and when they do, I assume they have the same power, although when they speak in the anime and their mask is just pulled off their face, they don't sound like vizards, but as soon as they put the mask back on, they do...
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