Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/11/14 - 8/17/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
New Reply
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Mysteries of Szayel Aporro Grantz

  1. #1
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    723
    Post Thanks / Like

    Mysteries of Szayel Aporro Grantz

    This thread is to discuss the 8th Espada (and one of my fav. characters; way better than Mayuri IMO), Szayel. Even though he is probably going to lose to Mayuri (who could blame him? He was just fighting 4-on-1 and now he has to fight 2 more).

    Anyway, there are questions that have yet to be answered about Szayel:

    -Is he really an adjucha? He is the size of a human so that's one characteristic of a Vasto Lorde.

    -Where is the remains of his mask? Is it his glasses? If so isn't that another sign of being a Vasto Lorde since like almost all of his mask is gone?

    -Where is his hollow hole? When his shirt was burned off, we didn't see any hole on him.

    -How is he able to counter attacks/reiatsu just by analyzing it? Mayuri cannot do such a thing (I'm pretty sure). Is it one of Szayel's abilities? Furthermore, how is his chambers linked to his body?

    -Also, how was he able to analyze Ishida so quickly and make a way to counter him? I mean Ishida beat that Privarion not too long before coming across Szayel.

    -Another question is can he make a clone of anyone? I mean it's pretty easy for him to catch you to clone you because he sprays that goop all over the place and it is pretty hard to dodge.

    There are probably more questions than can come up about this guy but you get the drift. This guy does not seem like a normal Espada and if you looked at all the things without knowing his actual rank, would you really guess he's no. 8? I mean he has characters more of a Vasto Lorde than a adjucha and his has some pretty high-level abilities when he releases.

    Furthermore, the mystery behind him being an Espada, then dropped from being an Espada then reinstated as an Espada intrigues me. It also seems that he secretly resents Aizen.

    Anyway, this is definitely a character that I want to stay around for a while because he's just very interesting and very strong IMO. He is a lot like Kabuto in Naruto.

    Anyways, what are your thoughts?
    Last edited by Zeus-Tails; November 05, 2007 at 08:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member lilkwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    119
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mysteries of Szayel Aporro Grantz

    Well, I kind of agree he has impresive abilities. His abilities from his release form pretty much throws Grimmjow's out the water. However, he has the smarts and abilities to go over his flaw which probably made him only 8 to begin with: Strength. Syazel is kind of like a typical good athlete. He compensates his weakness in strength with smarts, abilities, and literally analyzing his competition. He's a very special Espada, If there's a Top 3 Espada any bit as smart, they'll practically kill everybody. Syazel's character and fighting abilities compared to the Espada released so far shows that every Espada has a glaring weakness or you can say a strength that downplays their weaknesses.

  3. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Country
    United States
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,231
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Mysteries of Szayel Aporro Grantz

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-Tails View Post
    -Is he really an adjucha? He is the size of a human so that's one characteristic of a Vasto Lorde.
    His released form, which is the only one whose size means anything, is much larger than human size.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-Tails View Post
    -Where is the remains of his mask? Is it his glasses? If so isn't that another sign of being a Vasto Lorde since like almost all of his mask is gone?
    Basing vastolordes on the amount of mask remaining is a theory backed with no evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-Tails View Post
    -Where is his hollow hole? When his shirt was burned off, we didn't see any hole on him.
    Who knows? We can't see where Nel's hole is either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-Tails View Post
    There are probably more questions than can come up about this guy but you get the drift. This guy does not seem like a normal Espada and if you looked at all the things without knowing his actual rank, would you really guess he's no. 8? I mean he has characters more of a Vasto Lorde than a adjucha and his has some pretty high-level abilities when he releases.

    Furthermore, the mystery behind him being an Espada, then dropped from being an Espada then reinstated as an Espada intrigues me. It also seems that he secretly resents Aizen.

    Anyway, this is definitely a character that I want to stay around for a while because he's just very interesting and very strong IMO. He is a lot like Kabuto in Naruto.

    Anyways, what are your thoughts?
    His pure power is way too low to be a vastolorde. He is just an adjucha that happens to be a genius. The reason that he was dropped from the espada is that he was so weak in terms of strength. This also must have happened before Aizen was in charge of the espada, so he'd have no reason to resent Aizen. Aizen could actually be the one who put Szayel back into the espada, so that he could make use of his skills.

  4. #4
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    723
    Post Thanks / Like

    Szayel's Perfect Existence

    Before I get into this thread, I would like to tell all the people who hate Szayel just because he's getting a lot of screen-time to keep their negative comments to themselves. Stop comparing his screen-time to Zomari's screen-time because it does not prove anything.

    Okay, I was wondering why Kubo would bring back Szayel by showing a third ability of Szayel when Kubo had a perfect chance to finish Szayel off. It would not make sense to have Szayel reveal this ability (escaping death), then have him die the very next chapter. One could argue that he wanted to show off more of Mayuri's abilities, but a) he could of shown them in a way that didn't reveal new techniques from Szayel and b) Mayuri's technique is very situational.

    Now my theory is that Szayel's ability, Gabrielle, will serve a better purpose than just giving him an extra 5 minutes to live. There are a few points I like to emphasis about Szayel:

    -1 Szayel described himself as the perfect existence
    -2 He admits that he is not good at taijutsu
    -3 He knows that Mayuri prepared himself to counter Szayel's abilities

    Considering point 2 and 3, don't you wonder why Szayel seemed confident when he appeared out of Nemu? I doubt he was purely hoping to beat Mayuri with bankai. I mean Szayel is smart enough to know that a person's bankai is a part of them and they can control it. Now if Szayel knew he was defeated, why would he re-emerge now instead of later? My guess is that he wanted to get more information about Mayuri.

    But you ask yourself: "Why get more information on this fighter when you're going to die anyway?" My answer would be that he knows he will live after this fight. Furthermore, we all know that if Szayel has information on you, he can analyze and cancel all, if not most, of your reiatsu. Considered this, I have come up with the following scenario:

    Before combat: Szayel uses Gabrielle on one or more of his fraccion and puts them in a place for safe keeping.

    During combat: He was planning to just kill Renji and Ishida, but when he first met Mayuri, he didn't seem afraid even though he didn't know a thing about Mayuri. So he fights Mayuri and if he wins, he wins. If he loses, he will go down getting as much information on Mayuri as possible. Using Gabrielle to survive Mayuri's bankai, he forced Mayuri to use another technique. In this fight, he was able to analyze Mayuri's bankai, Mayuri's poison, Mayuri's body (through the use of Nemu), and Mayuri's time-slowing technique.

    Post-combat: He activates his dormant "Gabrielle" self within one of his fraccion, becomes reborn with the knowledge of Mayuri. Then, with prep time, he analyzes Mayuri, comes back and gives himself an advantage by fizzling Mayuri's abilities.

    This is a perfect existence indeed, because for him to actually die, you'd have to seek out and destroy all of his fraccion and destroy Szayel himself. You also have to do this in one fight because if you give Szayel the information he needs, you're dead.

    Anyway, that's my theory. Please don't come saying things like "he's only rank 8" or "if that's true, then he could be #1 Espada" or all that crap. None of those comments proves anything. His rank shows his power and this is not a theory on pure power.

  5. #5
    Scanlator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member henrikoez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Jakarta and Melbourne
    Country
    Indonesia
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    583
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Szayel's Perfect Existence

    It is possible indeed because we still don't know the real outcome of the battle before the next chapter is out. Maybe the Szayel that poisoned is one of his clones and the real one is analyzing the battle to come out with the next battle plan against Mayuri. But who knows?

  6. #6
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Vegetoacs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Country
    Australia
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    97
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Szayel's Perfect Existence

    I think that while it is true that Szayel has something of good deal with his abilties, it is by no means perfect. In fact, we have no evidence to suggest that he can just stick a fraccion away somewhere in a tiny room on an IV, for the sole purpose of being a vessel. Otherwise he wouldn't have used Nemu. If he did, he would have used that rather than Nemu to be reborn, with time to analyse Mayuri in order to devise a plan to defeat him soundly.

    My understanding of the Gabrielle ability was that it acted more like a transfer, by implanting his cells in a living organism to act as a host body right before he dies. Otherwise he could, and likely would clone himself a fair bit. :S So his "perfect exsistance" as he states in a rather arrogant (being the operative word to describe szyael, and many of the other Espada) manner, is nothing more than a parastic exsistance that requires others to have no knowledge of his abilities so that he may take form within them. This gets largely back to his abilities at the core, generally requiring or manipulating others to do his bidding.

    Also, judging by how worn down he looked after the "Rebirth" I would assume it takes a reasonable ammount of reiratsu to do this, much like some of his other abilities. I very much doubt he would be able to do it at infinite item. I would hazard a guess that the reason he looked so confident after he emerged from Nemu is because he'd taken control of mayuri's bankai, and geniunely did NOT believe that Mayuri would have some form of self destruct on it....because the chance of someone being able to control of your bankai is highly unlikely, given it is a part of you (which further adds weight behind the position that szayel is first and foremost, a parasite.) Plus, he seemed quite confident that he had taken full control of the bankai, given he made a big deal about how he had done it.

    Your theory is reasonable, but aside from the potential flaws in not knowing the Exact nature and conditions behind Gabrielle, it also is let down by Szayel's personality. If you think about it, most anime villians with highly effiecent and dangerous abilities are let down by their arrogance and overconfidence in those abilties, which leads into an underestimation of the enemy's ability to potentially analyze and counteract or find a weakness within those abilities (possibly because they reach the point where they become arrogant enough to believe the ability cannot be beaten. One such comparison i can think of for this situation is Cell from DBZ.

  7. #7
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member dreamzsai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Country
    Singapore
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    163
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Szayel's Perfect Existence

    Hmm, it's a pretty nice theory u have there, and i kinda like it actually.
    Even though i've never really liked Apollo, he is indeed an interesting character with tonnes of abilities.
    With him being a scientist, i suppose he must have quite a high intellect, and having him made a Plan B in case he actually loses is also quite possible.

    However, i believe it was not in his plans to fight someone such as Mayuri, and thus he was surprised when his tricks didnt work against him.
    And then Mayuri went on to be pretty confident and skewered him with Bankai, left with no choice, he had to do what he did, else he wouldve been dead. And since he survived a Captain's Bankai, he must have thought that "Now that i've survived this guy's trumph card, i no longer have anything to fear" but never did he thought that Nemu was bugged.

    I believe it's really a showcase of sorts to the viewers that no matter how strong you are, don't ever let your guard down and be overconfident, or you might just trip yourself. Mayuri didnt really beat Apollo, but rather Apollo kinda defeated himself.

    Even though i think Apollo's gone for good, it would really be interesting if we actually see a scene of Apollo reborning in another corner of Hueco Mundo.
    It would then somehow explain why Kubo has devoted so much airtime for him and it would be a nice twist that many would not have expected(i think) if they didnt read this =)

  8. #8
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    723
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Szayel's Perfect Existence

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegetoacs View Post
    I think that while it is true that Szayel has something of good deal with his abilties, it is by no means perfect. In fact, we have no evidence to suggest that he can just stick a fraccion away somewhere in a tiny room on an IV, for the sole purpose of being a vessel. Otherwise he wouldn't have used Nemu. If he did, he would have used that rather than Nemu to be reborn, with time to analyse Mayuri in order to devise a plan to defeat him soundly.

    My understanding of the Gabrielle ability was that it acted more like a transfer, by implanting his cells in a living organism to act as a host body right before he dies. Otherwise he could, and likely would clone himself a fair bit. :S So his "perfect exsistance" as he states in a rather arrogant (being the operative word to describe szyael, and many of the other Espada) manner, is nothing more than a parastic exsistance that requires others to have no knowledge of his abilities so that he may take form within them. This gets largely back to his abilities at the core, generally requiring or manipulating others to do his bidding.

    Also, judging by how worn down he looked after the "Rebirth" I would assume it takes a reasonable ammount of reiratsu to do this, much like some of his other abilities. I very much doubt he would be able to do it at infinite item. I would hazard a guess that the reason he looked so confident after he emerged from Nemu is because he'd taken control of mayuri's bankai, and geniunely did NOT believe that Mayuri would have some form of self destruct on it....because the chance of someone being able to control of your bankai is highly unlikely, given it is a part of you (which further adds weight behind the position that szayel is first and foremost, a parasite.) Plus, he seemed quite confident that he had taken full control of the bankai, given he made a big deal about how he had done it.

    Your theory is reasonable, but aside from the potential flaws in not knowing the Exact nature and conditions behind Gabrielle, it also is let down by Szayel's personality. If you think about it, most anime villians with highly effiecent and dangerous abilities are let down by their arrogance and overconfidence in those abilties, which leads into an underestimation of the enemy's ability to potentially analyze and counteract or find a weakness within those abilities (possibly because they reach the point where they become arrogant enough to believe the ability cannot be beaten. One such comparison i can think of for this situation is Cell from DBZ.
    I think you missed my point on why he invaded Nemu. He wanted to re-emerge immediately so he could see MORE of Mayuri's abilities, thus more information. He wants to get as much info. as possible before he "dies." The more information, the more power for him, so I believe he would want to get as much info. as possible.

    Also, even if Gabrielle does take a lot out of him, it's not like he's doing it over and over and over and over in the same day. He is obviously going to rest if needed.

New Reply

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts