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View Poll Results: Is Byakuya's Improvement Too Much?

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  • Nope, it's only normal for him to OWN!

    63 91.30%
  • Yea, there was too much of an increase in power

    6 8.70%
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Thread: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

  1. #1
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member dreamzsai's Avatar
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    Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Well, i was reading up on another manga forum and came across this topic, so i'd actually like to see what people over here at MangaHelpers think about it.

    From what we've seen over the pass few chapters, it seems like Byakuya has defeated the Espada pretty easily by just Releasing a certain form of his Bankai.
    The Espada he has "defeated" is non other than No.7 Zomari, and Byakuya had it done with just one leg and one arm and also without doing any other thing to the Espada except for the attack with did fatal damage.

    Compare this easy win to several other battles, and some might say that Byakuya has really gained a little too much power over the short period of time.
    He was having problems keeping up with Ichigo's speed, and even though Ichigo actually won, i would say Byakuya is still a little stronger than him, but that doesnt mean that he can actually beat an Espada in 2 chapters right?
    Hitsugaya had some problems fighting with the temporary No.6 Espada, and wouldnt have won if not for the enemy's careless mistake + the 4 on 1 going on.
    Ichigo needed his Vizard form to actually be competition to Grimmjaw.

    So what do you guys think about the current display of Byakuya's strength?

  2. #2
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Byakuya seem the same old byakuya to me. It is just because zomari is a little bit weaker but i dont think the fight is ending, Kubo wont end the live of an espada that easily, zomari will be put to good use.

  3. #3
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    its not always about strenght but techniques ie Hitsugaya against even a non espada whos released form had somehting to do with fire / heat would be disadvantageous to him...

  4. #4
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ayle's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Yep... Byakuya bankai is pretty effective against slow moving target....

  5. #5
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Byakuya isn't stronger. I personally think Zomari is faster because every time Zomari used his Sonido, Byakuya couldn't follow it. The Yoruichi technique is just a emergency escape technique IMO and it doesn't prove Byakuya is stronger.

    Anyway, Byakuya is just lucky to run into an Espada whose released form is NATURALLY weak to Byakuya's bankai because it seems Zomari is stationary in his released form and cannot dodge Byakuya's swords. Furthermore, it doesn't seem he has any powers to deflect the swords either.

    If this was Grimmjaw, Byakuya would lose badly. Ichigo is faster than Byakuya WITHOUT the hollow (just bankai) and Ichigo matches Grimmjow's speed (released) with his full mask on. That pretty much says Grimmjow is way faster than Byakuya and could easily dodge those silly sword petals.

    Point is, Byakuya got lucky because Byakuya's bankai is the natural enemy of ZOmari's released state (kind of like how water is the natural enemy of fire).

  6. #6
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    -Ichigo needed his hollow powers to beat GJ. Ichigo has not yet mastered his shinigami/hollow powers.
    -Ichigo needed Shirosaki to come out to beat Byakuya. Shirosaki has mastered his shinigami/hollow powers (extra shikai/bankai moves, hollow regeneration).
    So i'd say that it's possible that Byakuya is stronger than GJ.

    Similar thing with Kenpachi and Mayuri, Kenpachi pretty much gave Ichigo as many chances as he needed to beat him so that he'd get the good fight he wanted. Mayuri got beaten by a pretty powerful suicide technique.

    So don't underestimate the captains: Kenpachi/Byakuya/Mayuri pretty much got beaten by flukes in SS. Personally i'd say they are mostly around #5 Espada level, give or take a few levels for individual Captains.

  7. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ANBU4U's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisb3 View Post
    -Ichigo needed his hollow powers to beat GJ. Ichigo has not yet mastered his shinigami/hollow powers.
    -Ichigo needed Shirosaki to come out to beat Byakuya. Shirosaki has mastered his shinigami/hollow powers (extra shikai/bankai moves, hollow regeneration).
    So i'd say that it's possible that Byakuya is stronger than GJ.

    Similar thing with Kenpachi and Mayuri, Kenpachi pretty much gave Ichigo as many chances as he needed to beat him so that he'd get the good fight he wanted. Mayuri got beaten by a pretty powerful suicide technique.

    So don't underestimate the captains: Kenpachi/Byakuya/Mayuri pretty much got beaten by flukes in SS. Personally i'd say they are mostly around #5 Espada level, give or take a few levels for individual Captains.
    Agreed. The Byakuya/Ichigo and Kenpachi/Ichigo duels were both arguably draws....as Ichigo used his hollow powers in both and failed to win outright each time.

    Now that he has his mask under control...I have no real problem imagining Ichigo as better than Byakuya physically.....but I still wonder how the Captain would adjust to his disadvantages with kido and Shunpo variants. Im just not sure Ichigo could come out unscathed.

    On top of all that Ichigo didnt have nearly as hard a time with GJ as everyone seems to think. He took 5 of those darts to the back protecting Orihime, and it's only then that the fight briefly turned in GJ's favor.....I think Ichigo may well have defeated GJ will a respectable amount of fuel left in the tank had that not happened....meaning that instead of being roughly on par with the 6th Espada, he's more in the 5th's league.

    Now if thats actually the case then I feel reasonably comfortable believing Byakuya's Bankai is powerful enough to one hit the 7th espada...as it would imply he could compete with the 6th.

  8. #8
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    It really depends on who is fighting who. Some will be naturally stronger than others because of whatever techniques or abilities they possess. I think Zeus-Tails explained it the best.

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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Actually, Ichigo didn't really need Hollow Ichigo to beat Byakuya. Ichigo made it clear at the start that he was stronger.

    First by blasting away Byakuya's shikai with his own shikai.
    Then making Byakuya's speed look sluggish by comparison and then smacking away all the bankai petals. Ichigo could have ended it quickly as was shown but he chose not to. Then his bankai started to wear on Ichigo because of his inexperience which is the only reason Byakuya gained the upper hand.

    Normal bankai Ichigo was enough to kill Byakuya.

  10. #10
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    I don't know, i understand that every enemy has a natural weakness, like zomari's natural weakness was someone who wouldn't need his arms to fight, AKA byakuya, however.. i can't see neither byakuya or kenpachi nor mayuri fighting versus grimjow the way ichigo did.

    In fact, to be quite honest, i can't even see how someone like noitora would beat grimjow, even though he is one rank higher, in the bleach universe, usually speed > raw power.

    The only reason why kenpachi is a good match versus noitora, it's because they are both raw power beasts, noitora has a big weapon thus making him very slow and also happen to have a very resistant body, but what could kenpachi possible do against someone like grimjow? who is probably 5 times faster than him and can easily wound him, we all know that kenpachi is a beast but i doubt that he could take him honestly, not without shikai or bankai, and byakuya's petals wouldn't work on someone as fast as grimjow either, but who knows, maybe byakuya has more up his sleeves.

    It's like when chad and ishida were fighting those menos arrancar, they had to switch oponents because the quick was fighting the strong and the strong was fighting the quick.

    In the bleach universe, the quick has to fight the quick and the strong has to fight the strong, that's why ichigo was able to hold his own against noitora even though he just finished his fight with grimjow, did he get trashed? yes he did, but imagine what would have happened if ichigo fought versus the same grimjow being in THAT state.. he would've been insta-pwned.

  11. #11
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    ^Cant agree more, every oppoent have its weakness. Zomari cant move i think. If it was the others, for example ichigo, zomari would have the upper hand if ichigo cant move but byakuya can control Senbonsakura without moving.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member ANBU4U's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-Tails View Post
    Actually, Ichigo didn't really need Hollow Ichigo to beat Byakuya. Ichigo made it clear at the start that he was stronger.

    First by blasting away Byakuya's shikai with his own shikai.
    Then making Byakuya's speed look sluggish by comparison and then smacking away all the bankai petals. Ichigo could have ended it quickly as was shown but he chose not to. Then his bankai started to wear on Ichigo because of his inexperience which is the only reason Byakuya gained the upper hand.

    Normal bankai Ichigo was enough to kill Byakuya.
    Only because he was startled by the nature of his bankai. As soon as he realized the situation he used the annihilation-scape to limit Ichigo's movement, even if he WAS at top speed. We just have no way of knowing how that would have worked out.

    Regardless, byakuya took ogichi's attacks in full and still manged to keep fighting Ichigo once he regained control, and even managed to remain on his feet after the fight.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AngryChubbs's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by ANBU4U View Post
    Only because he was startled by the nature of his bankai. As soon as he realized the situation he used the annihilation-scape to limit Ichigo's movement, even if he WAS at top speed. We just have no way of knowing how that would have worked out.

    Regardless, byakuya took ogichi's attacks in full and still manged to keep fighting Ichigo once he regained control, and even managed to remain on his feet after the fight.
    i agree about your second thought where he took his attack and kept fighting.

    well ichigo was faster thn byakuya, there is no denying that, its just that byakuya has much much more experience fand there is nothing ichigo can do about that. as to who is stronger, i still think that ichigo didn't defeat byakuya, if anything, it was a draw only because byakuya was impressed that ichigo broke byakuya's sword. lets not forget that byakuya walked away in the end of the battle and prolly had enough energy to cast some spells while ichigo was complely drained and exhausted.

    so did byakuya improve too much? not at all. IMHO, we just never saw just how truly strong byakuya or kenpachi were in the ss series.

  14. #14
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    Quote Originally Posted by ANBU4U View Post
    Only because he was startled by the nature of his bankai. As soon as he realized the situation he used the annihilation-scape to limit Ichigo's movement, even if he WAS at top speed. We just have no way of knowing how that would have worked out.
    Byakuya only gained the advantage because Ichigo's body was breaking down, not because of Senkei. Ichigo would still have been running circles around Byakuya if he hadn't been stupid/arrogant enough to try fight Bankai with Shikai.

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    Re: Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

    One thing most people forget is Ichigo does not grow any stronger by using his Bankei. His Reiatsu, attack power and combat abilities are exactly the same. All Ichigo's Bankei does at this stage is increase his speed and thats it.

    Ichigo could have finished the fight against Byakuya with his first strike once he released his Bankei. It was not Ichigo's intention to kill Byakuya and so the fight continued. Also Ichigo tried to use his Shikai against Byakuya's Bankei which he later admitted was a mistake. Of course Byakuya was deliberately testing Ichigo's limits and he found them.

    Byakuya has more then likely not improved at all. He was probably at his peak when he fought Ichigo.

    Byakuya just is not well suited to fighting people who are faster then he is. So yes Grimjaw would have absolutely shredded Byakuya, but Zomari is at a significant disadvantage since Byakuya can easily fight him without ever moving.

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