Byakuya's Strength Improvement = Too Much?

[IchigoSoul]

Dont forget, zomari is the fastest espada in unreleased form so we cannot compare this to grimmjow but i guess byakuya is zomari natural weakness.

Switching zomari oppoents we will see him winning easily.

[ANBU4U]

Dont forget, zomari is the fastest espada in unreleased form so we cannot compare this to grimmjow but i guess byakuya is zomari natural weakness.

Switching zomari oppoents we will see him winning easily.

depends on who you switch with. Tousen would also have a feild day with Zomari. As would Aizen and Perhaps Matsumoto.

[Warden]

Zomari got beaten because of two things:

1. Byakua is absolutely the worst possible opponent for him. Byakua is expert on Shunpo, Sonido's equivalent. He has a fine tactical mind, and can keep his cool too. Good knowledge about kido helps, too. And his special attacks involve massive amount of small hits, not a few big ones that could be controlled by "Amor".

2. He, like so many Espadas, is a damn idiot. What the hell was he standing there, yabbering about his abilities? Strike first, strike fast, strike hard, that's the way it should be done, but noooo, he has to act childishly and tell everyone how badass his abilities are, instead of using them to end the fight there an then. Moron.

[Vegetoacs]

And that Warden is why it came down to their slight arguement over arrogance :P

The Espada believe they're a cut above average shinigami, no exceptions, due to the power they wield as a Hybrid. I agree it would be nice to see an Espada that just charges in, tries an attack, either suceeds or has it blocked, THEN proceeds to brag, gloat, reveal. Although this is more along the lines of Ulquiorra, who pretty much says nothing about his ablities, just uses them

Again, this thread does seem a little biased toward's people's perceptions that attributes alone, such as strength or speed, are the sole determining factor within these battles. Kubo's always leaned back towards tactical advantages of their abilities as well, though not nearly as much as Naruto or One Piece, which seems a bit disappointing at times, when you see the awesome, technical ways some foes are defeated.

In any case, we'll learn the result of byukuya's full strength bankai attack to Zomari this week (we already seem to have some legitimate spoilers, but i'm assuming some people don't read them)

[Neuroff]

If Byakuya had come straight out with Senbonzakura Kageyoshi, then Zommari wouldn't have had a chance. They both did the same thing, so there shouldn't be all this whining on Zommari's side. You should be glad that he's at least shown his abilities. If Byakuya went all out from the beginning, the fight wouldn't even last a chapter.

[IchigoSoul]

depends on who you switch with. Tousen would also have a feild day with Zomari. As would Aizen and Perhaps Matsumoto.

But zomari will have a field day verus Ichigo etc...So it is basically down to oppoent selection.

[Neuroff]

But zomari will have a field day verus Ichigo etc...So it is basically down to oppoent selection.

There is a REASON for him being the 7th Espada, his ability doesn't make up for the power gap between him and Grimmjow. If it really were as great as people seem to think it is, Zommari would definitely have been ranked higher.

[Zeus-Tails]

Actually, we do not know if the gap between Espada is only due to power. If Zomari does actually have the fastest Sonido, then there is little Grimmjow can do to prevent getting his ass handed to him. Released may be different. Anyway, if Byakuya went all out from the start...remember Zomari is still faster (I'm not going to even hear counterarguments, Zomari is faster than Byakuya period. If Byakuya is faster than that means Byakuya is faster than all the Espada which is absurd).

Anyways, if Byakuya used bankai and ZOmari stayed unreleased, it would be like Ichigo vs Byakuya. The petals wouldn't be able to catch Zomari and the clones can confuse Byakuya until Zomari gets in close for a hit. Also, I'm assuming if a clone is destroyed, he can just replace it with a new one (but staying within his 5 clone max), so it will depend on how many times Byakuya can successfully pull of Yoruichi's technique.

Also, in released state, if Zomari had released and immediately took control of Byakuya's right hand (sword hand), it's over GG. He can have Byakuya cut himself and the best Byakuya could do is blast his own hand with kido. He can probably activate bankai there but Zomari (if he was fighting correctly), could just take control of Byakuya's head and have the bankai kill Byakuya.

Released and unreleased, Zomari had opportunities to win even if Byakuya went all out. He just didn't because he's arrogant. Arrogance is the downfall of Aizen's whole crew.

If Aizen's crew killed first, ask later, well everyone would be dead and Aizen would win. Ulquiorra would kill Ichigo and Chad when they first went to Earth. Zomari would have killed BYakuya. Renji and Ishida would be dead (Damn Szayel just kill them!), Rukia would be dead, etc, etc.

NOTE: Also when I think about it. Byakuya isn't a natural enemy to Zomari. Byakuya's bankai is either controlled by his mind or finger. Zomari could take control of both just by looking at them. Basically Zomari's downfall was due to his arrogance.

[kluzman]

Hi there!
I'm posting here cuz I was readding through this topic talking about byakuya's strengh increase, and I did not see anyone talk about the limit release that was allowed many chapters ago when the guys were fighting the arrancar on real earth..

I think that we can take as a given that now all captains have this limit broken all the time.
Wich would mean that with no training during the time we did not see him, Byakuya would anyway be 5 times stronger than when he fought Ichigo.

Am I saying nonsense in your opinion ?
(asking cuz it's my first post on Bleach topics and I did not go through all of the past discussions so correct me if i'm wrong)

[Neuroff]

Actually, we do not know if the gap between Espada is only due to power. If Zomari does actually have the fastest Sonido, then there is little Grimmjow can do to prevent getting his ass handed to him. Released may be different. Anyway, if Byakuya went all out from the start...remember Zomari is still faster (I'm not going to even hear counterarguments, Zomari is faster than Byakuya period. If Byakuya is faster than that means Byakuya is faster than all the Espada which is absurd).

His speed really isn't impressive at all if he couldn't even hit Byakuya. Ichigo easily could have badly damaged Byakuya twice, but chose not to. How many times do people say they're fastest, strongest, etc. and end up not being close? If we were to believe everything the espada said, Nnoitra would be the first espada.

Anyways, if Byakuya used bankai and ZOmari stayed unreleased, it would be like Ichigo vs Byakuya. The petals wouldn't be able to catch Zomari and the clones can confuse Byakuya until Zomari gets in close for a hit. Also, I'm assuming if a clone is destroyed, he can just replace it with a new one (but staying within his 5 clone max), so it will depend on how many times Byakuya can successfully pull of Yoruichi's technique.

Byakuya was easily hitting Zommari's clones with his zanpakutou, the only reason he had to use Yoruichi's technique was that he underestimated how many clones Zommari was capable of creating. That's not even close to the speed Ichigo had when Byakuya couldn't even see his movements.

Also, in released state, if Zomari had released and immediately took control of Byakuya's right hand (sword hand), it's over GG. He can have Byakuya cut himself and the best Byakuya could do is blast his own hand with kido. He can probably activate bankai there but Zomari (if he was fighting correctly), could just take control of Byakuya's head and have the bankai kill Byakuya.

If Byakuya had gone to bankai immediately when Zommari released, which is the logical thing to do, he would have killed him in an instant. The arrogance and stupidity is from both sides.

[Dantrag]

Hi there!
I'm posting here cuz I was readding through this topic talking about byakuya's strengh increase, and I did not see anyone talk about the limit release that was allowed many chapters ago when the guys were fighting the arrancar on real earth..

I think that we can take as a given that now all captains have this limit broken all the time.
Wich would mean that with no training during the time we did not see him, Byakuya would anyway be 5 times stronger than when he fought Ichigo.

Am I saying nonsense in your opinion ?
(asking cuz it's my first post on Bleach topics and I did not go through all of the past discussions so correct me if i'm wrong)

You are somewhat off. Captains and Vice-captains only have limiters placed on them when they go in the human world, not when they are in HM(As far as we know) or SS. The reason why they carry limiters there are that; 1. their large spiritual pressure would attrack all types of hollows endangering innocents and 2. Large amount of overflowing spiritual pressure might cause normal humans to develop spiritual powers uncontrollably (This is what Ichigo's spiritual pressure did to Orihime, Tatsuki, Chad and that one guy atleast).

Byakuya was at full strength (His that time maximum) when he fought Ichigo at that execution hill.

---

If Byakuya had gone to bankai immediately when Zommari released, which is the logical thing to do, he would have killed him in an instant. The arrogance and stupidity is from both sides.

You could say that with almost all fights in Bleach, not to mention other series fall into this category.

By all logic, you should own your opponent as fast as possible to avoid lengthened fights where the risk of losing increases.

Happened with Ichigo & Ken. Happened with Ken & Tousen. Happened with Icihigo & Byakuya (Both of them should be blamed for it in this fight). Happened with Grimjow's arrancars vs team hitsugaya. Luppi vs Hitsugaya etc

The truth it that it is a nescessary cliche because the good guy's would never win if the bad guy would just off them instead of toying around.

[Neuroff]

You could say that with almost all fights in Bleach, not to mention other series fall into this category.

By all logic, you should own your opponent as fast as possible to avoid lengthened fights where the risk of losing increases.

Happened with Ichigo & Ken. Happened with Ken & Tousen. Happened with Icihigo & Byakuya (Both of them should be blamed for it in this fight). Happened with Grimjow's arrancars vs team hitsugaya. Luppi vs Hitsugaya etc

The truth it that it is a nescessary cliche because the good guy's would never win if the bad guy would just off them instead of toying around.

That's exactly why whining about Zommari losing is pointless. If everyone went all out from the beginning of every fight, then almost every fight would be over in less than a chapter and it would just be boring. If Byakuya and Zommari immediately went all out, Zommari wouldn't have had a chance. Unreleased or released, he can't touch a bankai Byakuya.

[akatsuki27]

yeah there was stupidity and arrogance on both sides but a lot more on the side of zommari....he actually told him that his eyes can only take control of 1 thing at a time....what an idiot, after that the counter was automatic

this is how it went down:
zommari: eh, er, my ability allows me to take over one thing at a time, ha ha ha!
byakuya: is that so?
zommari: yeah, er, the only way you can stop me is if you can attack with more than 50 objects, ha ha ha, er, i'd like to see you do that!
byakuya: bankai
zommari: F***!!!

[Decorus]

Zomari would have lost to Ichigo, his control power would have been useless as I doubt his will is anything more then a speck of dust in comparison to Hollow Ichigo.

Ichigo obviously has way more speed as he can create similar afterimages of himself and can probably eventually appear to be in more then one place at a time if his Bankei training against Zangetsu was any indication of Zangetsu's powers.

[hollowdemon]

I partly agree with the outcome of ichigo vs zomari situation. Since it took a #6 espada grimmjow to go up to par with ichigo even with hismask and bankai used. There was a reason zomari is only at #7 and thats because theres a big hole left when he switches to his release which was speed. True that ichigo/hollow ichigo would've beat him with the amount of speed that he gains after switching to that mode but whose to say that even with him moving fast he wouldnt've been able to be controlled by zomari's 50 eyes? All he has to do is look at every single corner and spot of the battlefield if hes fighting ichigo and control him once he grabs a hold of any part of ichigos body.

Byakuya's improvement in my book is definitely nothing yet compared to the full improvement that he gained from the prior times that he has to learn from his training. If he did learn much more than his goukei that is. Its just an icing on the cake of his goukei senbonzakura that hes shown to us.