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Thread: Recommendation Thread: (Use this thread when you seek advice.)

  1. #46
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    New translator

    Yeah im going to translate...


    but my japanese is awful.

    I am halfway through a textbook for japanese, and quite frankly, i know about 3 kanji.

    It'll take another year to learn enough kanji to get by and finish the textbook

    (My only way to learn kanji is the program kanji gold, any other good ways, tell me)

    I have a work i really want to translate, Kaiji. But it's seinin!

    any ways to translate kanji before learning them, tell me, otherwise i'll be back in a year.

    Thanks for the help

  2. #47
    Translator 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member tradedaemon's Avatar
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    Re: New translator

    Forget the kanji, if you're only half way through the book, you're probably missing a lot of grammar, which'll kill you if you don't know, especially in seinen.

  3. #48
    Intl Translator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ju-da-su's Avatar
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    Re: New translator

    I would say . . . just come back in one more year. Learn more before you attempt to start, please? >_<"

    I mean, my brother knows more kanji than you do and probably more grammars and vocabularies as well, and I still insist on not letting him translate directly from Japanese. IMO, if that's all you know, it will take you ages to translate any manga, don't even talk about seinen, and chances are you still won't get it right no matter how good your English is (yes, I'm serious). So . . . just go learn your stuff first and come back in another year, as you said. It's better for everyone . . . ._."

  4. #49
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Enma Ai's Avatar
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    I can't decide.

    Hi. I've been wanting to start learning Japanese for a while. But I keep delaying it. Now I'm like eff it, I'm gonna start now. But..... I've had a collection of Japanese learning sites. Now I've narrowed it down to 2. I sorta want to stick to just one so I won't get confused but maybe I should do both so I could learn more. I'm between:
    http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/

    or

    http://grammar.nihongoresources.com/doku.php

    They are both very well organized and are filled with helpful content.

    I need you guys' opinions on this. I need to start now.

    Thank you.

  5. #50
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: I can't decide.

    Use both. I often use two references whenever I do anything.

  6. #51
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Katimusha's Avatar
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    Re: I can't decide.

    yeah i agree with kuri its probably best to learn from multiple sources. well in my opinion anyways.

  7. #52
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Subito's Avatar
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    Re: I can't decide.

    You really really don't have to focus on grammar all that much. Honestly, I think a good dictionary (as for online J-E ones, Jisho looks pretty decent) would work better--they still give you the particles and common verb endings, plus they don't confuse you by giving examples of incorrect grammar. + Dictionary capabilities, of course. And really, how well do you know English grammar? ...But you still speak it just fine, right?

    Anyway, I'm not sure about the second one, but I've heard about Tae Kim's. Although, a resource is a resource is a resource, and as the others said, you shouldn't force yourself to exclusively use only one website. I mean, it's not like you signed a contract in blood and if you switch to some other source they'll show up at your door lookin mean, right?
    With that said, I'd really recommend checking out AJATT, which is yet another site dedicated to learning Japanese... but it's fun and stuff.
    fly on, little wing

  8. #53
    Translator 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member himitsu87's Avatar
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    Re: I can't decide.

    Well, in my opinion it would be better to study and read from various sources. What I believe is that you'll gain knowledge about the material you're studying quicker this way and better. But if you stick with only one I don't think it'll help a lot. Though it's kind of distracting in the beginning when different websites tell slightly different meaning of a particular grammar or word but I think it's better

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  9. #54
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Syphilias's Avatar
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    Re: I can't decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subito View Post
    And really, how well do you know English grammar? ...But you still speak it just fine, right?


    I disagree with this. While a lot of what we learn in school about grammar is simply running in the backround in our brains, it was still programmed in. This means that if you are learning a new language, you need to learn the most important part, which is grammar. The kanji is something you learn over the long-term, and something you practice daily.

    Also, if your desire is to eventually write in any language, then having a solid command of the grammar is essential. Subject-verb agreement, all that good stuff. It's ESSENTIAL.

    The best thing I can suggest for you to do is to keep at it every day. Try using that Kanji Gold program which is stickied on the top of these forums. It's ALL YOU'LL EVER NEED to learn kanji. It's free, yet it has EVERYTHING you'll need. It has readings, and compounds as examples. You don't need to get some fancy program. THIS PROGRAM has EVERYTHING.

  10. #55
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Subito's Avatar
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    Re: I can't decide.

    I maintain my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilias
    While a lot of what we learn in school about grammar is simply running in the backround in our brains
    Like...like what? When I'm listening or talking or reading, I'm not aware of grammar stuff going on in my mind at all, background or not.... I'm not even really aware of having learned grammar in school. Did I? I dunno. >___>

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilias
    you need to learn the most important part, which is grammar.
    I just disagree with this. Grammar is not a tangible part of language in the first place...grammar is more a set of abstract rules that try to generalize the way language flows. Grammar is because language is, not the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilias
    Subject-verb agreement, all that good stuff. It's ESSENTIAL.
    Sorry, I have this tiny grasp of what "subject-verb agreement" means from high school French, but... yep, definitely didn't actively learn that concept for English.


    I don't remember EVER learning stuff like past participles or anything crazy like that when I was a kid. It was just, if you said something like "I'd boughten it at the store", everyone would laugh at you in grade school. That's how I learned English grammar, anyway.
    So is it ESSENTIAL to learn grammar? I highly disagree. It may be helpful for some people, but actively studying grammar is hardly necessary to use a language to produce pleasing and easily understood discourse, much less to understand said discourse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilias
    The best thing I can suggest for you to do is to keep at it every day. Try using that Kanji Gold program which is stickied on the top of these forums. [...] You don't need to get some fancy program.
    This I wholeheartedly agree with. (Especially the keeping at it every day part.) I used a combination of Heisig's Remembering the Kanji series and Anki (an SRS like Kanji Gold) and modeled my cards after Reviewing the Kanji, which is kinda similar to Kanji Gold. (I didn't know about Kanji Gold at the time, but... well, I like Anki anyway. Plus Heisig's nice.)

    But, to be nitpicky, (ooh, ooh, look at me starting a sentence with a conjunction! The gall!) saying a program has EVERYTHING is like saying you don't have to use any other resources, and... you oughta use a slapload of resources. You just should. They want you to use them. You don't wanna make 'em sad, do you...?


    But, anyway, as long as we're making progress, whether we choose to study grammar, or choose to focus on using primarily one website to learn, or whatever, we're making progress, right? And on that note, I think it's time to learn me some more Japanese!
    fly on, little wing

  11. #56
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Syphilias's Avatar
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    Re: I can't decide.

    Heh, well, if anyone is paying so much attention to grammar that they(one of my habits, using plural possession for a singular pronoun!) lose track of the artistic flow in their writing, then whatever grammar they learned is useless. Studying grammar is like practicing your 12 scales on piano, you don't actually perform them in front of people, but having them drilled into your skull will help you when you are studying other pieces of music, as well as writing them.

    So I'm saying that you should study a little bit of grammar on top of everything else you're studying. Really, 5 minutes of study that will help you out in comprehension is better than 5 minutes of doing nothing, right?

  12. #57
    Translator/Moderator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: I can't decide.

    I would use multiple sources. You will need some basic understanding of grammar when you learn a new language. You should at least learn how to use a suffix (specially te, ni, o, ha). If your purpose to learn Japanese is simply to understand spoken words in anime and manga, however, you may often find that learning the grammar is not too helpful.

    Let's see if you can translate the following short sentences easily using your grammar reference tools.

    These are something that Gin Ichimaru, a character in "Bleach" (anime), would say... (There is no space between words, so it may be a bit difficult.)

    1. そんなんゆーてもあかんわ。(sonnanyuutemoakanwa.)
    2. なんもわからへん。(nanmowakarahen.)
    3. あーしんど。(aashindo)

    Some more using "Kuroko no Basket" & "Beelzebub" style sentences...

    4. っつーか、あんただれ? (tz-tsuuka, antadare? )
    5. からだだるー。(karadadaruu.)
    6. んなこといってんじゃねーよ。(nnakotoittenjaneeyo.) <-- You can translate this in 2 ways.
    7. どうでもいいんスよ。(doudemoiinsuyo.)
    8. まじっスか?(majissuka?)
    9. てめーのせいだろ-が。(temeenoseidarooga.)
    10. それなんスけど...。(sorenansukedo ....)

    Have fun.
    Last edited by mikkih; April 07, 2010 at 01:16 PM.

  13. #58
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Syphilias's Avatar
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    Re: I can't decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikkih View Post
    Let's see if you can translate the following short sentences easily using your grammar reference tools.

    These are something that Gin Ichimaru, a character in "Bleach" (anime), would say... (There is no space between words, so it may be a bit difficult.)

    1. そんなんゆーてもあかんわ。(sonnanyuutemoakanwa.)


    2. なんもわからへん。(nanmowakarahen.)


    3. あーしんど。(aashindo)
    1. そんなんゆーてもあかんわ。(sonnanyuutemoakanwa.)
    A: In reference to going to "Yuu," it seems as though I can't fail.


    2. なんもわからへん。(nanmowakarahen.)
    A: We seem to always get to weird understandings.


    3. あーしんど。(aashindo)
    A: Ahh, dead.
    Translating is difficult for me. o_O;

    Maybe you can post some with kanji to help comprehension?

    EDIT: Oops, didn't realize my horrendous answers were in your quote. Sorry!
    Last edited by Syphilias; April 10, 2010 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Typos

  14. #59
    Translator/Moderator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: I can't decide.

    I listed the sentences that show how useless it can be to rely on only 1 general grammar tool to understand Japanese when it comes to word omissions, local dialects and colloquial expressions. If the purpose to learn Japanese is simply to enjoy manga and anime, using search engines and multiple dictionary tools would be more practical than spending a lot of time studying the Japanese grammar.

    Hint for Ichimaru Gin Style sentences (1-3). He speaks with かんさいべん the Kansai dialect, technically speaking, the Kyoto dialect among the Kansai dialect.

    1. そんなん ゆーても あかんわ。(sonnan yuutemo akanwa.)

    そんなん (Find out what the last ん stands for.)
    ゆーても (Find out a standard word for ゆー.)
    あかんわ (Find out a standard word for あかん)

    2. なんも わからへん。(nanmo wakarahen.)

    なんも (replace one letter with ん(n),or find out an omitted word before も.)
    わからへん* (Find out what へん means)

    Note*: People in Kyoto would say わからへん (wakarahen) but those in Osaka may say わかれへん (wakarehen).


    3. あー しんど。(aa shindo)

    しんど (Find out a standard word for this.)

    Have you tried 4-10, Syphilias? Btw, would you mind putting your answers outside my Quote box?<Thx for changing.>
    Last edited by mikkih; April 13, 2010 at 07:37 PM.

  15. #60
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Subito's Avatar
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    Re: I can't decide.

    Can I try? I like tests!

    Spoiler show


    I recently found http://www.weblio.jp/ , which seems pretty awesome. It uses Sanseidou's Daijirin, which I've noticed has a lot of the more non-standard/difficult to find word endings like __てんの=__ているの and __えど=たとえ__しても and stuff...and a whole bunch of dialect dictionaries and yeah.
    It's in Japanese though....
    Last edited by Subito; April 07, 2010 at 11:01 AM.
    fly on, little wing

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