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Thread: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

  1. #1
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    In chapter 223 of the manga we have Aizen's objective, as understood by Captain Yamamoto, explained - to recreate the Ou Ken so he can open the dimension/space where the Spirit King lives, and thus be able to get to him. According to this, two things are required to resurrect or rebirth the Ou Ken, the Key of the King:

    - an area of high spirit particle density, "a land rich of souls" which is explicitly stated as being Karakura town in this day and age, and;

    - one hundred thousand or one million mod souls gathered in this place.

    Scanlations appear to vary on the latter part. I am reading from M7 and that cites the million figure, but the hundred thousand apepars to show up more often. That is one for the translators, and perhaps an exact or literal translation would be great to have in considering this. Perhaps someone can shed a little light here? The exact figure is not important however, I think, except that it is a large number.

    What IS important, vitally so, is the nature of these souls.

    Again a precise translation would be a fine thing to have at hand right now! Mod souls are specified, but some scanlations neglect the modified part.

    If these couls simply be any souls, Aizen could conceivably unleash his hollows straight on Karakura town at any time, to the specified number, and the expected chaos ensues. This is one approach, but one can safely say that the Gotei 13 would anticipate something along those lines, and be ready to engage. It is not Aizen's way to be so obvious in approach, his is a subtler mind.

    Assuming the standard artificial soul now - of which Kon is the dubious example - we can simply imagine Aizen driving through Karakura one fine sunny afternoon with a truckload of soul candy! A fatal blow to all who expected mayhem and confusion! This approach may not prove particularly realistic, however - there was a standing order for all these artifical souls to be disposed of. The Science Division excepted, these would not be readily available to those of Soul Society. Away? Who knows?

    Loosening the definition of mod souls a little, what Aizen does have at hand is a ready supply of hollows experimented on, modified and created in his pursuit of the ideal shinigami/hollow hybrid.

    All this stands or falls on two points. First, does Aizen have souls of the required type in the required numbers? He probably does. Or will. Second, how to introduce these into Karakura all at once? Soul Society will notice and take measures - thinking they know his intent here, one assumes they will try to put a stop to it.

    So what alternative could Aizen possibly have? Menos.

    Shipments of soul candy aside, this could be the most elegant solution for Aizen to employ. In his menos he certainly has no lack of souls. (From memory, Aarioniero had devoured something like thirty thousand hollows on his own, and he was only a gillian level arrancar. Would just three or four of these do the trick?) Between applying the hougyoku and his own experimentation, a good argument can be made that most of the Espada, apart from being a multitude of souls right there, are in a sense modified as well. As he is still supposedly gathering the vastolorde level menos together, then this is even more soul potential.

    At first glance, it appears that Aizen is fashioning/influencing the Espada largely to face off against Soul Society. It is possible that he is doing to more to make the perfect source material for his creation of the Ou Ken. Given the numbers of ex or privaron Espada we seem to see loitering about, it could well be both! He has Espada to spare, after all - and with the possible exceptions of Gin and Tosen, it is not in Aizen's nature to be particularly troubled about sacrificing his minions, even the powerful ones, along the way.

    Well, that's longer than I meant it to be, and again a speculative house of cards that may fall over at any point, bearing on issues of translation and people generally poking holes in it!

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    The million mod souls is a mistranslation by M7. What Aizen needs is the souls of the people in Karakura Town. I'm sure Aizen knows by now that Soul Society has figured out he's trying to make the Ouken, so he is going to have to defeat them before he can make the Ouken. Yamamoto says that there is a ritual when he explains the creation of Ouken, so I'm assuming it requires time to set up. Otherwise Aizen could just sneak in and make it whenever he pleases.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    The million mod souls is a mistranslation by M7. What Aizen needs is the souls of the people in Karakura Town. I'm sure Aizen knows by now that Soul Society has figured out he's trying to make the Ouken, so he is going to have to defeat them before he can make the Ouken. Yamamoto says that there is a ritual when he explains the creation of Ouken, so I'm assuming it requires time to set up. Otherwise Aizen could just sneak in and make it whenever he pleases.
    That didn't take long at all! I finally managed to lay my hands on a Ju-Ni scanlation of the same, and that has one hundred thousand human souls. There we go!

    At a guess we probably have considerably less than that number actually living in Karakura town, or Aizen would already be rather ahead of the game here. So would Aizen be waiting on a date or event - a festival, special occasion - which might draw that many people? Or engineer such a gathering himself somehow? It is a rather small area to be fitting that many people into.

    Or - attempting to salvage a little speculation here! - would shinigami or hollow souls still manage to qualify somehow, as they were in one sense or another once human themselves, before death?

    Edit - I am thinking that Aizen probably has an idea already of how he will get that many people/souls together, and not necessarily just use the locals. He did not appear to mind the damage to the general populace when Ulquiorra and Yammi first went out, with Yammi slurping down souls all around.
    Last edited by nordicbattlesigns; December 07, 2007 at 09:37 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    Quote Originally Posted by nordicbattlesigns View Post
    At a guess we probably have considerably less than that number actually living in Karakura town, or Aizen would already be rather ahead of the game here. So would Aizen be waiting on a date or event - a festival, special occasion - which might draw that many people? Or engineer such a gathering himself somehow? It is a rather small area to be fitting that many people into.

    Or - attempting to salvage a little speculation here! - would shinigami or hollow souls still manage to qualify somehow, as they were in one sense or another once human themselves, before death?

    Edit - I am thinking that Aizen probably has an idea already of how he will get that many people/souls together, and not necessarily just use the locals. He did not appear to mind the damage to the general populace when Ulquiorra and Yammi first went out, with Yammi slurping down souls all around.
    I always assumed that they had enough people in Karakura Town to create the ouken, but that Aizen wanted to be sure that Soul Society could do nothing to stop him. But yeah, I'm sure Aizen has a plan for how to create the ouken.

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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    so to created the key does that mean all the people in the town must die?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    Yamamoto said that Karakura Town and everything around it will vanish from the world entirely, so yes.

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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    Has Aizen ever said or suggested he was going to make the key? Wasn't that just Yamamoto's assumption because they found out he was looking up information on it.

    It could be possible that he did that on purpose to throw the Soul Society off and make them ignorant to his real plan. It would suite his style (similar to the fake dead body which made everyone go "WTF?" when his actual plan was revealed).

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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-Tails View Post
    Has Aizen ever said or suggested he was going to make the key? Wasn't that just Yamamoto's assumption because they found out he was looking up information on it.

    It could be possible that he did that on purpose to throw the Soul Society off and make them ignorant to his real plan. It would suite his style (similar to the fake dead body which made everyone go "WTF?" when his actual plan was revealed).
    Yeah, I also considered this, and I think that it is pretty likely. The only thing about it is that I have no idea what Aizen woud truely be after then if not to usurp the Spirit King's throne. What else could he possibly want? Like you said, this is likely going to end in a big "WTF?" from everyone as it will come so far from left-field that no one will have possibly been able to guess it. I think Aizen does have an ulterior motive, but if he can overthrow the Spirit King, I doubt he would waste the opportunity.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AngryChubbs's Avatar
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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    i have to agree with zeus tails on this one because ive thought that aizen's true plans are gonna be different from what yamamto said. i mean....just by what aizen does, it doesn't seem like one could predict what he is planning. i mean, he said he wants oriheme to fix the one thing, but then why would he show her....i think he has an alternative motive there as well...maybe she wont destroy it but competely release it...

    and for the key....maybe he doesn't want the key, or maybe he does and the way he is going to get it is to get everybody in that town captains and vastolordes and viazards and then destroy everything....i mean, i think it is just impossible to figure out aizens plan

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    No matter what Aizen's ultimate goal is, there is no doubt that he's at least going to try to attack. You don't build up a massive army and then just let it sit there. What did people think was happening in Soul Society? That someone was trying to destroy Soul Society. It turns out that it really could have been close to Aizen's true goal, he's just using a different method.

    If Aizen didn't want the ouken, he wouldn't attack Karakura Town at all. That's just inviting so many more powerful people to fight with Soul Society. It makes absolutely no sense, especially when Urahara, and possibly other powerful people (such as the vizards), cannot enter Soul Society.

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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    Aizen didn't attack Karakura Town. The only time he sent people there was to either look for Ichigo or look for Orihime. As stated before, the whole Luppi fight was just simply a diversion.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    That was a response to AngryChubbs, it has nothing to do with that.

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    Re: On Aizen, the Ou Ken and the nature of the Espada

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus-Tails View Post
    Has Aizen ever said or suggested he was going to make the key? Wasn't that just Yamamoto's assumption because they found out he was looking up information on it.

    It could be possible that he did that on purpose to throw the Soul Society off and make them ignorant to his real plan. It would suite his style (similar to the fake dead body which made everyone go "WTF?" when his actual plan was revealed).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    Yeah, I also considered this, and I think that it is pretty likely. The only thing about it is that I have no idea what Aizen woud truely be after then if not to usurp the Spirit King's throne. What else could he possibly want? Like you said, this is likely going to end in a big "WTF?" from everyone as it will come so far from left-field that no one will have possibly been able to guess it. I think Aizen does have an ulterior motive, but if he can overthrow the Spirit King, I doubt he would waste the opportunity.
    Aizen's is a devious mind. Having seen what feints and deceits he has already employed, it is no stretch to suggest he has more planned than we can immediately guess at.

    What we do have is Aizen's statement of intent. Arrogent, ambitious and deceptive he might be, but Aizen seems largely truthful. He had no need of lies once he stood on the Soukyoku hill - his subterfuges had served their purpose. He has declared his intent to seek new heights, to fill the emptiness in the throne of heaven.

    This is sometimes interpreted as being the Spirit King's throne, especially in view of Yamamoto's later revelation, but what Aizen WAS referring to has never been made explicitly clear. While it can make sense for this to refer to the Spirit King's seat, Aizen's talk of God and the heavens could indicate a position even higher - whether the Spirit King is to be identified with God here is another debate altogether. If the two are not synonymous, we still have that the Spirit King is higher than Aizen in the current scheme of things, and makes for a logical stepping stone on the path upward. Either way, there exists a plausible reason for Aizen to be aiming for that throne, either for it or through it for something higher. On this basis he would have a use for the Ou Ken.

    Aizen is vastly devious, but if he intended to mislead his opponents by accessing other documents beside his intended researches, then this is a very subtle way to go about it. With the volume of sensitive material he had at hand, he could potentially have accessed anything at all, from the floor plans of the Seretei to methods for draining all the spirit power from Soul Society - in short, anything to make them glance inward and keep eyes closer to home. Certainly, anything which does not appear to coincide so well with his stated ambitions. We must also be mindful that Ukitake, who headed the investigation into his researches, is no fool, neither is Yamamoto. Aizen knows this, and if he anticipated that they or others would check his research thoroughly, he would probably also anticipate that one document apart from his known researches would scarcely be enough to mislead them.

    Besides which, this is Bleach and not something attempting a complexity of Death Note proportions. It would not really seem to be Tite Kubo's style - he surprises, not confuses.

    But all of this is getting away from the point of my original post. If Aizen IS attempting to recreate the Ou Ken, how would we see him going about it?

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