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Thread: Freshly-baked, please help.

  1. #46
    Translator 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    That use of ワケ is essentially the same as 理由 (reason) in that first case.

    As for ワイ it means "I." Remember that Kawachi is from Osaka. ワイ is just another first-person pronoun (so ワイら means "we" or "us").

    Finally, っちゅう is Osaka dialect for っていう (or って). So, "あの堤っていう男" means "that guy called/named Tsutsumi."

  2. #47
    Jisinai
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    Hmm, it seems that the whole Osaka dialect has me stumped. Is there a learning resource where I can find information on most of the changes when someone speaks in that dialect?

    Trouble ones:

    Kawachi: 肝心のオマエがやる気のうては勝てるモンも勝てへん。
    Kawachi: kanjin no omae ga yaruki no ute wa kateru mon mo kate en.

    I think he's trying to say that Kanmuri's willingness to fight is necessary for their victory, but I can't piece it together. Is the "モン" anything special?

    And a real nice long one. It doesn't seem to be structured into a coherent sentence. He keeps breaking off:

    Kanmuri: TV大東京で堤さんが言ってた通り、ジャムの本場、オーストリアの一流職人たちからすれば...他国のジャムなんで食べ物ですらないのも事実
    Kanmuri: TV daitoukyou de tsutsumi-san ga itteta toori, jamu no honba, o-sutoria no ichiryoushokunintachi kara sureba... takoku no jamu nande tabemono (?de sura nai no mo jijitsu?)

    Thank you again to anyone and everyone for their help. Especially you, pocketmofo. Japanese-beast-type-guy.

  3. #48
    Scanlator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    i just have a questionm, are you translating for fun or for a group? cause either way you sure picked a tough manga to translate

  4. #49
    Jisinai
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoShweaty
    i just have a questionm, are you translating for fun or for a group? cause either way you sure picked a tough manga to translate
    For fun. I like doing it for a few reasons. I see Japanese as a puzzle. As I learn more and more about the rules of the puzzle, I can add more pieces and do bigger puzzles with more complicated pieces. It's a challenge for me, and when I post here for help I'm pressing the hint button for the puzzle.

  5. #50
    Translator 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    Okay, let's see if we can get you a decent translation for those two lines:

    Kawachi: 肝心のオマエがやる気のうては勝てるモンも勝てへん。

    Kawachi: If you, out of all of us, don't have the motivation/drive to do this then how are we going to win?

    (literally) If you (the most important one of us/our key player) don't have the proper motivation to do this, then even when we should win we'll lose.


    Kanmuri: TV大東京で堤さんが言ってた通り、ジャムの本場、オーストリアの一流職人たちからすれば...他国のジャムなんて食べ物ですらないのも事実

    Kanmuri: It's just as Tsutsumi said on TV Tokyo, from the point of view of first-class (jam) makers from Australia, the home of jam,...it's a fact that jam from other countries isn't even considered food.


    So, what we've learned is that not only does Kawachi use Osaka dialect, he talks like a very old man.

    のうて = ない

    ワイ = わし = 私

    モン = もの

    ーへん = ーない (negative verb ending)

    There are many ways and rules when using ーへん since verbs conjugate differently in Osaka dialect. If I have some time, I'll find a good site that will explain things a bit more concisely (or just start a ミニ講座 right here).

    For now, good luck and feel free to keep asking questions!

  6. #51
    Jisinai
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    Thanks a lot, pocketmofo. I'm keeping a notebook and I have a page of all your suggestions and notes, so it helps me out later when I need it.

    Updated the front page with all I've done so far.

    Here's a tricky one for me, a conversation between Kawachi and Kanmuri:

    RAW Page

    Kawachi: ところでや、冠。
    Kawachi: tokorode ya, kanmuri.
    Kawachi: By the way, Kanmuri.

    Kawachi: そもそもワイらは信濃町の特産物について、なんも知らんワケやが...
    Kawachi: somosomo waira wa shinanomachi no tokusanbutsu ni tsuite, nan mo shiran wake ya ga...
    Kawachi:

    Couldn't really get it: At first we [Shinanomachi's specialty product]

    Kawachi: あの堤っちゅう男に勝つためにも、まずそこらへんから教えてもらえんか?
    Kawachi: ano tsutsumicchuu otoko ni katsu tameni mo, mazo sokara oshietemorae n ka?
    Kawachi: That guy Tsutsumi, he wants to win too, so shouldn't we get someone around here to teach us?

    Pretty sure that's not right, but it was the best I could guess.

    Kanmuri: ああ、いいですよ。
    Kanmuri: aa, ii desu yo.
    Kanmuri: Yeah, it's fine.

    And this I think I got right, but if someone could check:

    Kanmuri: 信濃町で勇名な特産物というと、とうもろこし、りんご、フルーツトマト...といろいろあるワケですが、
    Kanmuri: shinanomachi de yuumei na tokusanbutsu toiu to, toumorokoshi, ringo, furu-tsu tomato... to iroiro aru wake desuga,
    Kanmuri: When you mention specialty products from Shinanomachi, there's sweet corn, apples, fruit tomatos... and various other items,

    Kanmuri: ジャムにするならやっばり
    Kanmuri: jamu ni suru nara yabbiri
    Kanmuri: but if we're going to make jam,

    Kanmuri: ルバーブでしょうね。
    Kanmuri: ruba-bu deshou ne.
    Kanmuri: then it should be rhubarb, right?

    Azuma: ルバーブ?
    Azuma: ruba-bu?
    Azuma: Rhubarb?

    Kawachi: なんやそれ?
    Kawachi: nan ya sore?
    Kawachi: What's that?

    Kanmuri: 欧米でよくジャムとして使われる甘酢っぱい植物のコトです。
    Kanmuri: oubei de yoku jamu toshite tsukawareru amazubbai shokubutsu no koto desu.
    Kanmuri: Westerners often used sweet vinegar in order to get jam from plants.

    Kanmuri: 日本では古来より大黄と呼ばれ、漢方薬として使われていたモノなのですが...
    Kanmuri: nippon de wa korai yari daiou to yobare, kanpouyaku toshite tsukawareteita mon nano desu ga...
    Kanmuri: In ancient Japan it was called "daiou", used as an herbal medicine, but...

    [Note] - Daiou is written with the words for "big" and "yellow".

  7. #52
    Translator 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    Kawachi: そもそもワイらは信濃町の特産物について、なんも知らんワケやが...
    equals --> そもそも私たちは信濃町の特産物について、何も知らない訳だが
    i.e, To start off with (or, in the first place), we don't even know anything about what Shinanomachi's famous for... (or, about Shinanomachi's specialties)

    Kawachi: あの堤っちゅう男勝つためにも、まずそこらへんから教えてもらえんか?
    堤に勝つ is "to beat tsutsumi", not "tsutsumi wants to win"
    そこらへんから教えてもらえんか is more like "can we get you to tell (teach) us about that?" or "from that?" or "from there?"
    (i.e. Kawachi is asking Kanmuri if he'll teach them, starting off with what the specialty of Shinanomachi is,)

    The 'when you mention' part isn't wrong... but does it sound natural to you? I'd think more like just "the specialties of shinanomachi are..." or "(Well,) As for the specialties of shinanomachi, there's ..." <---(not very natural tho )

    Kanmuri: 欧米でよくジャムとして使われる甘酢っぱい植物のコトです。
    start from, ルーバーブというのは。。。植物のコトです。 i.e. rhubarb is a plant
    the ルーバーブ isn't written, but trust me, it's there
    what kind of plant? 甘酸っぱい植物, i.e. a sweet and sour plant, sweetish sourish kind of plant, bittersweet plant (whatever)
    what's it for? よくジャムとして使われる, i.e. it's often used as jam (present tense)
    where? 欧米で, i.e. in the West
    So put that all together and you get,
    It's a sweet and sour plant that westerners often use as jam. /or/ It's a plant with a sweet and sour taste that is often used as jam in the west. /or/ whatever, there's heaps of different ways to write it.

    When you're having trouble understanding a sentence, try breaking it down into little bits and then adding them all back together
    Anyways, sorry this got so long! Hope it helped a bit.
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  8. #53
    Translator 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    Good job on the explanation, Flunko! I was just about to respond when I read your post. Keep up the great work on the Naruto databook too!

  9. #54
    Scanlator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Freshly-baked, please help.

    dont know if anyone is interested but, since this is a yaki topic, there are scans of volume 21 and up here: http://pagescouleurs.free.fr/Ritual.htm (for now at least)

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