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Thread: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member drakend's Avatar
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    A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    I was re-reading chapter 280 with hard rock music ( ) and I suddenly realized something I'm surprised I didn't before.
    It's at page seven:

    In the bottom panel Grimmjaw says:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmjaw
    "You're a shinigami, I'm an hollow!!"
    "The side that loses is annihilated!"
    "It has been like that for a thousand years now!"
    Uhm Grimmjaw says that the war between shinigami and hollows has been going on for a thousand years.
    How were shinigami-hollow relations before the "thousand years"?
    I don't know anything about japanese so maybe the translator translated like that to give us the idea that it has been an eternity since the conflict between the shinigami and hollows started. But wouldn't it be better if the text was "it has been like that for an eternity" or "it has been like that since the begin of time"? I have the suspect that the translator made a literal translation from the japanese and this would mean that the conflict between hollows and shinigami has been going for a thousand years for real and before then there was no conflict. As the answer changes totally depending on the real translation of the bottom panel I put the page seven raw of chapter 280 for convenience:


    If the translation is that the conflict between shinigami and hollows has been going on for a thousand years for real then lots of questions arise:
    1) how was the world before the conflict started?
    2) why did the conflict start?
    3) Were there shinigami and hollows around already? Were they able to live together?
    4) Or did they (shinigami and hollows) descend from a common ancestor?

    What do you think of all this?

    PS Can some translators translate the raw page, just to be sure what's the right meaning? Thanks.

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Keep in mind that Yamamoto-Genryūsai says that he founded the Shinigami academy a thousand years ago. Perhaps this would mean that Shinigami either did not exist, or did not exist as an official organization until that time.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member OrangeRat's Avatar
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    ^But Renji graduated from the 2066th (iirc) year of the academy.

    And Genryuusai is over 2000 years old.

    But maybe Grimmjow was mistaken.

    Nice find, drakend
    GREEN, Your death's colour is Green. Death of the mind. Your heart is isolated within your mind. You seek knowledge. You are very rare.

    Others' lifes is your salvation. Listening to people's problems is your way to escape reality. You have an extraordinary wonderful soul, but this soul is carrying the whole world in its shoulders. With your understanding restless nature, you are constantly looking for answers. ~~I carry the whole world on my shoulders~~

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member drakend's Avatar
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Quote Originally Posted by MegaX View Post
    Keep in mind that Yamamoto-Genryūsai says that he founded the Shinigami academy a thousand years ago. Perhaps this would mean that Shinigami either did not exist, or did not exist as an official organization until that time.
    Or they began having the need to train shinigami to fight against hollows... that would make sense after Grimmjaw's phrase.
    Anyway we need a literal translation to be sure of what Grimmjaw meant.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    As far as my Japanese language studies go, it does seem like it's a literal translation. Sennen=thousand years, but frankly we'd have to find more qualified translators. It would make sense that 1000 years ago there MIGHT be some big thing that motivated Genryuusai to finally say..."Kill the hollows" and all

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    I think it might be a mistranslation, maybe its actually "for thousands of years" and no "for a thousand years" i would guess that there is a small difference or no difference in the translations of the phases into jap, but i don't know jap so i can't say for sure....

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member drakend's Avatar
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Quote Originally Posted by Ripht View Post
    I think it might be a mistranslation, maybe its actually "for thousands of years" and no "for a thousand years" i would guess that there is a small difference or no difference in the translations of the phases into jap, but i don't know jap so i can't say for sure....
    In fact it's the very reason because of I asked an accurate translation of that panel.
    Depending on the translation the implications are immense!!!

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    1000 years is just there to say "a long time", unless GJ accuratly knows the exact date and it just so happened to be exactly 1000. The more accurate number would be the ~2066 years or however long the academy has existed for.


    The meaning of it, could be that before that time powerful good spirits from heaven fought the evil spirits on earth.
    Then at some point the good spirits organised themselves into the shinigami academy. Soul Society with all it's noble houses seems like it existed before the academy: so maybe before that the noble houses where responsible for fighting hollows.


    And now Aizen has organised the hollows in the same way...


    This means that at least three of the SS captins are 2000 years old!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member drakend's Avatar
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisb3 View Post
    1000 years is just there to say "a long time", unless GJ accuratly knows the exact date and it just so happened to be exactly 1000. The more accurate number would be the ~2066 years or however long the academy has existed for.
    Is it your interpretation or an actual translation of what there is written? A long time is generic, for a thousand year is not.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Quote Originally Posted by drakend View Post
    Is it your interpretation or an actual translation of what there is written? A long time is generic, for a thousand year is not.
    It's my interpretation, obviously GJ does not know the exact date, and the exact date is not going to be exactly 1000 years (Even if the exact translation is 1000 years). If it is 1000 years, then the shinigami spent 1066+ years sitting around doing nothing instead of killing hollows.

    EDIT: And I think that 1000 Years can be generic, it's a good round number. It's as generic you can get while giving a rough idea of the timescale involved.
    Last edited by chrisb3; January 01, 2008 at 10:04 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member drakend's Avatar
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisb3 View Post
    EDIT: And I think that 1000 Years can be generic, it's a good round number. It's as generic you can get while giving a rough idea of the timescale involved.
    In fact what I wanted to know it's this very same point: I know japanese can be translated in various ways depending on the context a phrase is in. What I would like to know if the japanese used mean "for an eternity" or an exact amount of years. Anyway in western languages, when you want to define an unknown amount of time, you don't use exact quantities usually (like 1000 years for example): for that purpose you use generic words like "for an eternity" or "for a very long time" and such.
    So I don't think the translator wrote 1000 years just to give us the idea of a very long period of time... but I could be wrong of course. And anyway an exact translation of the bottom panel is essential... because if the war between shinigami and hollows started only at a certain point of time and for certain reasons then this would mean things were different before.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Quote Originally Posted by drakend View Post
    In fact what I wanted to know it's this very same point: I know japanese can be translated in various ways depending on the context a phrase is in. What I would like to know if the japanese used mean "for an eternity" or an exact amount of years. Anyway in western languages, when you want to define an unknown amount of time, you don't use exact quantities usually (like 1000 years for example): for that purpose you use generic words like "for an eternity" or "for a very long time" and such.
    So I don't think the translator wrote 1000 years just to give us the idea of a very long period of time... but I could be wrong of course. And anyway an exact translation of the bottom panel is essential... because if the war between shinigami and hollows started only at a certain point of time and for certain reasons then this would mean things were different before.
    I really really hate to use this example but it's the only one I can think of.
    A certain evil person wanted to set up a 1000 year empire in europe a few years ago.
    I doubt he wanted his empire to crumble after exactly 1000 years.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member drakend's Avatar
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisb3 View Post
    I really really hate to use this example but it's the only one I can think of.
    A certain evil person wanted to set up a 1000 year empire in europe a few years ago.
    I doubt he wanted his empire to crumble after exactly 1000 years.
    Yes of course long period of times can be rounded to the nearest big number: for example a war which lasted 105 year will be remembered as the one hundred years war. In fact I'm not saying that Grimmjaw's indication is literally right, but one thing is to round a few years, another a few thousand years... the latter aren't rounded...
    Last edited by drakend; January 02, 2008 at 10:32 AM.

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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    Good find!!!Dont know jap so cant comment but if anyone can translate the raw please do, very important find

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member LanderZ's Avatar
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    Re: A doubt struck my mind in chapter 280

    One question I have about that....

    IIRC (and I may be mistaken), didn't Genryuusei say that he founded some kind of Graduate Academy for Captains, in which Ukitake and Shunsei both graduated first from?

    Or was it actually the standard Academy he was talking about?

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