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Thread: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

  1. #1
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Homura's Avatar
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    Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    I was thinking about the Captain Succession. I will be assigning a unit to make the years easier, it will be BI (Before Ichigo).

    Gotei 13 Captain Line-up 101-150 B.I. (Asterisk for the confirmed captains).

    In Squad Order:

    1) Yamamoto Genryuusai*
    2) Shihouin Yoruichi*
    3) Rojuro Otoribashi* - (predecessor unknown and became captain at around -111 BI)
    4) Unohana Retsu*
    5) Kuchiki Ginrei*
    6) Shinji Hirako*
    7) Love Aikawa*
    8)Kyoraku Shunsui*
    9) Kensei Muguruma*
    10) -
    11) Zaraki Kenpachi*
    12) Urahara Kisuke*
    13) Ukitake Jyushiro*

    (Soi Fon can't be here, since when Yoruichi left, she's not even at seated officer level)
    (Ichimaru Gin, it was impossible since he was a lieutenant at around that time. EDIT: Gin became a shinigami around this time)
    (Retsu Unohana, no data for her in this timeline. EDIT: She is confirmed to be a captain at this time.)
    (Kuchiki Byakuya, edit: he's not even a shinigami at this time)
    (Komamura, it is possible for him to be a captain at that time because he was a shinigami at around the same time as Tosen. EDIT: He's probably not a shinigami at this time)
    (Tosen could've been a captain that time since he was a shinigami and was on the 5th division when Aizen was still a lieutenant in the 5th division. EDIT: probably just some shinigami at this time)
    (Hitsugaya, for obvious obvious reasons, is not a captain by this time)
    (Zaraki Kenpachi, it is possible that Zaraki was a captain this time. Since When Renji Abarai was still a low ranked shinigami, he went to Ikkaku for training and Ikkaku only joined AFTER Zaraki became captain, so meaning it is possible that Zaraki was a captain at this time. EDIT: Zaraki is confirmed to be a captain at this time)
    (Mayuri, well he is Urahara's replacement so, NO)
    (Isshin Kurosaki, he was wearing a captain's haori or a piece of it meaning he was a captain and judging from his interaction with Urahara, they probably were both captains at this time. EDIT: He's probably from another branch of the military.)

    Gotei 13 Captain Line-up 50-99 B.I. (Asterisk for the confirmed captains).

    Yamamoto Genryuusai*
    Ukitake Jyushiro*
    Kyoraku Shunsui*
    Aizen Sosuke*
    Sajin Komamura*
    Kaname Tosen*
    Mayuri Kurotsuchi*
    Zaraki Kenpachi*

    (Soi fon, she probably was still training at this time)
    (Ichimaru Gin, probably became captain at this time)
    (Retsu Unohana, no data for her in this timeline)
    (Byakuya, probably became captain at this time)
    (Hitsugaya, it is debatable however evidence suggests that he started to go to the shigami academy when Hinamori was already a student)
    (Isshin Kurosaki, it is possible that this is the time that he left or not)

    Gotei 13 Captain Line-up 1-49 B.I. (Asterisk for the confirmed captains).

    Yamamoto Genryuusai*
    Soi Fon*
    Ichimaru Gin*
    Unohana Retsu*
    Aizen Sosuke*
    Kuchiki Byakuya*
    Kyoraku Shunsui*
    Sajin Komamura*
    Kaname Tosen*
    Hitsugaya Toshiro*
    Zaraki Kenpachi*
    Mayuri Kurotsuchi*
    Ukitake Jyushiro*


    Notes:

    Isshin Kurosaki was probably captain of either 2nd squad or 10th quad.
    If Baishin is canon to the story, and it was said that 6 captains chased him and 2 died sealing him. These two captains was probably replcaed by Byakuya and Ichimaru since they became captain at around the same time.
    It is more likely that Hitsugaya replaced Isshin (meaning Isshin was more likely from the 10th squad EDIT: If Isshin was in Gotei 13 to begin with).
    It is likely that Zaraki was a captain when Urahara Kisuke was captain. Since Ikkaku knew Urahara and acknowledges him (judging from his interaction with Ichigo).

    Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

    EDIT: Some updates were made by May 27, 2008.
    Last edited by Homura; May 27, 2008 at 08:04 AM. Reason: New material from the recent chapters.

  2. #2
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    1. Yamamoto- We don't when he became captain, but he is the most senior. He founded the shinigami academy about 2000 years prior to the start of Bleach. Since the academy is now the main way to get into the SS army, I would imagine only someone with as much clout as a captain could have created such a major institution; thus, I imagine he's been captain for at least the last 2000 years.

    2. Soi Fon- She became about 100 years ago after Yoruichi left.

    3. Gin- He became captain about 50 years ago.

    4. Unohana- In the new Bleach game, Bleach: the 3rd Phantom, which takes place when Aizen was 5th squad lieutenant, she is shown to be a captain at that time. Given that her databook stats are third highest among the captains (behind Yama-ji and Aizen), she could very well be the second most senior captain; otherwise, she is junior only to Yamamoto, Ukitake, and Kyoraku.

    5. Aizen- If the new Bleach game is to be taken as canon, we will find out when he became a captain in that game. Also, in the game, the former 5th squad captain is named, Seigen Suzunami.

    6. Byakuya- He became captain about 50 years ago around the same time as Gin.

    7. Komamura- He does not have white sleeves on his haori like Tousen, suggesting he is a junior captain and became a captain after his friend did.

    8. Shunsui- All we know is that he graduated in the first class of the shinigami academy. He is most likely one of the most senior captains. Given that he and Ukitake are always paired together, they likely became captains around the same time. Since Aizen addressed Ukitake during his exit from SS in a way suggesting him to be his senior, both Kyoraku and Ukitake are likely senior to Aizen.

    9. Tousen- He became a captain after Aizen and has white sleeves on his haori, suggesting he is a senior captain.

    10. Hitsugaya- I don't recall if it has been stated when he made captain (I want to say about 20 years ago), but he is definitely the most recently appointed captain.

    11. Kenpachi- He became captain after Tousen. He lacks white sleeves on his haori. The sleeves have obviously been torn off, but he most likely is a junior captain and just has them torn off only due to killing the former 11th squad captain, basing this off how far he still has to go in his development.

    12. Mayuri- He became about 100 years ago after Urahara went into exile. Although he has white sleeves, he became captain around the same time as Soi Fon. Either she is just barely below the time requirement for white sleeves or he is not really a senior captain. He could just wear them to complete the scientist motif with the lab-coat-esque haori. Plus, although perhaps not canon, when other 12th squad research division members have been shown, they are also wearing white lab coats. Also, given his ego, I could easily see him wearing the sleeves to make himself seem more important.

    13. Ukitake- (see #8 Kyoraku)

    Seniority order then would be the following:

    Yamamoto (>2000 years)
    Unohana/Ukitake/Kyoraku
    Aizen (will be in Bleach: the 3rd Phantom; previous captain: Seigen Suzunami)
    Tousen
    *Mayuri (previous captain:Urahara)/Soi Fon (about 100 years ago) / Komamura/Kenpachi
    Byakuya/Gin (about 50 years ago)
    Hitsugaya

    *As stated in the descriptions, Mayuri might indeed be a senior captain and thus may have been a captain the longest out of those four. Komamura and Kenpachi were made captains at unknown times, but they were definitely made captains between Tousen and Gin; so, I just put them on the same line as Mayuri and Soi Fon.

    If Isshin is a Gotei 13 captain (he's got captain-level reiatsu but not necessarily a captain), he would likely be the former captain of either the 10th, 6th, 3rd, 11th, 7th, or 2nd squads. Since 10th is the most recent to get a new captain, it is the most likely. Next most recent squads, 6th and 3rd, are also somewhat likely. Since Isshin seems close to Urahara, it could be some chance that he is captain of 2nd squad as he could have been involved in leaving with Urahara and that's when the captain spot opened up, but I think that this is not very likely. If shinigami captains reincarnate, he could be the murdered captain of Squad 11, but I also doubt this one. The only one left is 7th squad, but it is not a very focused-upon squad, making it a really random and unlikely option.

    Isshin could very well have been a member of a non-Gotei 13 group: the royal guard, special forces, or the kidou corps. Isshin could have been in one of the five divisions of the special forces, but the former head was Yoruichi and I can't see him being someone who was powerful and important. We know practically nothing about the kidou corps; so, theoretically he could be head of that, but he does not seem like the type to rely mainly on kidou. The best option is for him to be a member of the royal guard. The manga is moving towards Aizen trying to get to the SS king; so, the royal gurad will have to be introduced at some point, perfect timing for explanation of Isshin's past. Plus, everything about the King's Key seems to revolve around Karakura Town, which would help explain what Isshin is doing there.

  3. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homura View Post
    Isshin Kurosaki was probably captain of either 2nd squad or 10th quad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    If Isshin is a Gotei 13 captain (he's got captain-level reiatsu but not necessarily a captain), he would likely be the former captain of either the 10th, 6th, 3rd, 11th, 7th, or 2nd squads. Since 10th is the most recent to get a new captain, it is the most likely. Next most recent squads, 6th and 3rd, are also somewhat likely. Since Isshin seems close to Urahara, it could be some chance that he is captain of 2nd squad as he could have been involved in leaving with Urahara and that's when the captain spot opened up, but I think that this is not very likely. If shinigami captains reincarnate, he could be the murdered captain of Squad 11, but I also doubt this one. The only one left is 7th squad, but it is not a very focused-upon squad, making it a really random and unlikely option.
    Isshin couldn't have been captain while Rukia was in the Gotei 13, or she would recognize him. Assuming they fill captain openings fairly quickly, that rules out the 3rd, 6th, and 10th divisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homura View Post
    It is likely that Zaraki was a captain when Urahara Kisuke was captain. Since Ikkaku knew Urahara and acknowledges him (judging from his interaction with Ichigo).
    I think the best indicator of how long Kenpachi has been captain is Yachiru's growth. Yachiru would probably be a lot older if Kenpachi had been there when Urahara was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post
    2. Soi Fon- She became about 100 years ago after Yoruichi left.
    Soi Fong wasn't that strong when Yoruichi left, she still didn't even have full use of her shikai. It had to be at least some time after Yoruichi left.

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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    Isshin couldn't have been captain while Rukia was in the Gotei 13, or she would recognize him. Assuming they fill captain openings fairly quickly, that rules out the 3rd, 6th, and 10th divisions.


    I think the best indicator of how long Kenpachi has been captain is Yachiru's growth. Yachiru would probably be a lot older if Kenpachi had been there when Urahara was.


    Soi Fong wasn't that strong when Yoruichi left, she still didn't even have full use of her shikai. It had to be at least some time after Yoruichi left.
    Good points. You're probably right on those.

    So, with that in mind:

    Seniority order then would be the following:

    Yamamoto (>2000 years)
    Unohana/Ukitake/Kyoraku
    Aizen (will be in Bleach: the 3rd Phantom; previous captain: Seigen Suzunami)
    Tousen
    Mayuri (previous captain:Urahara) (about 100 years ago)
    Soi Fon/ Komamura/Kenpachi
    Byakuya/Gin (about 50 years ago)
    Hitsugaya
    Last edited by Tsukisama; January 19, 2008 at 09:12 PM.

  5. #5
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Homura's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukisama View Post

    7. Komamura- He does not have white sleeves on his haori like Tousen, suggesting he is a junior captain and became a captain after his friend did.

    Isshin could very well have been a member of a non-Gotei 13 group: the royal guard, special forces, or the kidou corps. Isshin could have been in one of the five divisions of the special forces, but the former head was Yoruichi and I can't see him being someone who was powerful and important. We know practically nothing about the kidou corps; so, theoretically he could be head of that, but he does not seem like the type to rely mainly on kidou. The best option is for him to be a member of the royal guard. The manga is moving towards Aizen trying to get to the SS king; so, the royal gurad will have to be introduced at some point, perfect timing for explanation of Isshin's past. Plus, everything about the King's Key seems to revolve around Karakura Town, which would help explain what Isshin is doing there.
    Unfortunately I've never seen the databook so my data is incomplete. This is all from manga/anime data.


    I'm not so sure with the sleeves. I thought the fashion of sleeves were the captain's specialization on their haoris. I would appreciate it much if you can point me as to where you got this so I can read up on it as well. Though you have a point with the sleeves thing if it is speculation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    Isshin couldn't have been captain while Rukia was in the Gotei 13, or she would recognize him. Assuming they fill captain openings fairly quickly, that rules out the 3rd, 6th, and 10th divisions.


    I think the best indicator of how long Kenpachi has been captain is Yachiru's growth. Yachiru would probably be a lot older if Kenpachi had been there when Urahara was.


    Soi Fong wasn't that strong when Yoruichi left, she still didn't even have full use of her shikai. It had to be at least some time after Yoruichi left.

    I don't think Yachiru's growth is the best indication of time in SS. I mean in general with souls, I don't think growth can be reliable.

    My case is Rukia, when she stated that she has lived nearly 10 times as Ichigo (so that puts her at 150). Thinking about it, she had to grow sometime so lets say it took her around 40 years to become an "adult".

    110 years-ish - She entered the Shinigami academy with Renji, I remember reading that its a 6 year cycle. Renji entered the Academy at the same time at her. Renji was good friends with Kira and Hinamori. Now Hinamori was Toshiro's friend at that time and it was shown that Toshiro was at around the same age as he is now, so to sum it up, 100 years and there's little to almost no change in Hitsugaya. We can say that Yachiru's growth could be a fluke or something. We can also say that her growth is the same. So I think we really can't trust physical growth as a gauge for a shinigami's age.

    Good point on Rukia and Isshin, she could've noticed. However, it is also quite possible that he changed his name (and maybe his appearance? Urahara?).

    You have to forgive me, my data is incomplete. I'm basing all this from manga/anime data. (Excluding the bount arc since I skipped that filler arc completely).

  6. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homura View Post
    I don't think Yachiru's growth is the best indication of time in SS. I mean in general with souls, I don't think growth can be reliable.
    Rukia was also an infant when she died, but Yachiru is younger than Rukia is in the flashbacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homura View Post
    My case is Rukia, when she stated that she has lived nearly 10 times as Ichigo (so that puts her at 150). Thinking about it, she had to grow sometime so lets say it took her around 40 years to become an "adult".

    110 years-ish - She entered the Shinigami academy with Renji, I remember reading that its a 6 year cycle. Renji entered the Academy at the same time at her. Renji was good friends with Kira and Hinamori. Now Hinamori was Toshiro's friend at that time and it was shown that Toshiro was at around the same age as he is now, so to sum it up, 100 years and there's little to almost no change in Hitsugaya. We can say that Yachiru's growth could be a fluke or something. We can also say that her growth is the same. So I think we really can't trust physical growth as a gauge for a shinigami's age.
    I doubt that she entered the academy over 100 years ago. She aged before joining Renji, and aged again before joining the academy. I would think it's more like 50-70 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homura View Post
    Good point on Rukia and Isshin, she could've noticed. However, it is also quite possible that he changed his name (and maybe his appearance? Urahara?).
    I seriously doubt that he would change his appearance, he wouldn't have any reason to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homura View Post
    You have to forgive me, my data is incomplete. I'm basing all this from manga/anime data. (Excluding the bount arc since I skipped that filler arc completely).
    It's a good list, the only certain thing is that Unohana should be moved higher.
    Last edited by Neuroff; January 19, 2008 at 07:38 AM.

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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    I'm not concrete on the earlier Bleach chapters, but did Rukia know who Urahara was when she first met him at his shop? If she didn't then it could explain why she doesn't recognize Isshin (assuming he left along with Urahara).

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    i don't think so, as we know that Urahara came to propose her a gigai, nothing let us know if they had already met before, bu i really think they never did...and I believe that Isshin had been captain or any other high-graded job in the same time as Urahara, but he didn't leave SS with Urahara : it's told in the manga that Isshin has been on earth for something like 2 decades.

    If Isshin has been captain, Rukia would surely have recognize him, and in this case, she can hide this fact for any reason she has. but it seems likely that she did not know him before they first met, so Isshin could have been a member of a non-Gotei group, strong enough to be asked to protect something or someone on earth. I don't remember : do these people (non-member of gotei) live in SS or in the Royal area?


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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    i don't think so, as we know that Urahara came to propose her a gigai, nothing let us know if they had already met before, bu i really think they never did...and I believe that Isshin had been captain or any other high-graded job in the same time as Urahara, but he didn't leave SS with Urahara : it's told in the manga that Isshin has been on earth for something like 2 decades.
    That's not exactly how long he's been on Earth, it's how long he's been without shinigami powers.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    well...yes ok. thanks

    i really didn't remember that at the time i wrote this post^^ the reason i told that is that we can suppose it is possible, when a shinigami spent too much time on earth that he may lose his powers, or they would decrease to disappear. as i said, he may have been sent on earth to protect something or someone, that could explain why he doesn't have any shinigami powers anymore, until soon when his son began to have increasing powers due to his hollow, as we know that people close to Ichigo develop their powers because of his own powers. but that is just some theory i had in mind, nothing to prove it. sorry about off-topic.


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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homura View Post
    Unfortunately I've never seen the databook so my data is incomplete. This is all from manga/anime data.


    I'm not so sure with the sleeves. I thought the fashion of sleeves were the captain's specialization on their haoris. I would appreciate it much if you can point me as to where you got this so I can read up on it as well. Though you have a point with the sleeves thing if it is speculation.
    The white haori sleeves is just commonly held speculation about seniority. It is not proof of anything; that's why I've only used the word "suggests" in regards to it.

  12. #12
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    well...yes ok. thanks

    i really didn't remember that at the time i wrote this post^^ the reason i told that is that we can suppose it is possible, when a shinigami spent too much time on earth that he may lose his powers, or they would decrease to disappear. as i said, he may have been sent on earth to protect something or someone, that could explain why he doesn't have any shinigami powers anymore, until soon when his son began to have increasing powers due to his hollow, as we know that people close to Ichigo develop their powers because of his own powers. but that is just some theory i had in mind, nothing to prove it. sorry about off-topic.
    The power disappearing was a side effect of Urahara's undetectable gigai, I don't think it had to do with staying on Earth too long.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Homura's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    I would just like to update this list. After watching the episode where Renji talks to Rukia on her cell, I missed this fact.


    *Rukia and Renji went to the Shinigami Academy 50 years before the start of the story.
    *Byakuya adopts Rukia
    *Rukia, Renji, Hinamori, and Kira are on the same batch
    *Hitsugaya went to the Shinigami Academy after Hinamori (I think a year or two after she joined)

    Therefore, Hitsugaya has been captain around 30 years or less. Also, Rukia said something about her 40 years in the Kuchiki estate.


    @Neuroff:

    Well there should be enough reasons to change, I was thinking that he chose to lose his Shinigami powers to live with Ichigo's mom (and delete all the traces of him being shinigami, I don't think it's farfetched to think that Urahara could alter a shinigami's look)


    @Tsukisama:

    I credit Isshin's "incomplete" haori to his incomplete transformation back to being Shinigami. Because I do remember Rukia's kimono turning white when she transferred her Shinigami powers to Ichigo.

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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Kenpachi had to be a captain around the same time urahara was cause here http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...7/page013.html
    ikkaku clearly recognized the name urahara kisuke during his fight with ichigo. If urahara had already left then the only way he should have been able find out about urahara was through reading books and stuff. He doesn't seem like the type to waste time with books.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Homura's Avatar
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    Re: Gotei 13 Captain Succession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narosian View Post
    Kenpachi had to be a captain around the same time urahara was cause here http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...7/page013.html
    ikkaku clearly recognized the name urahara kisuke during his fight with ichigo. If urahara had already left then the only way he should have been able find out about urahara was through reading books and stuff. He doesn't seem like the type to waste time with books.
    That or Urahara has a reputation for being an insanely strong fighter. He is after all, an ex-captain.

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