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Thread: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity hakuthehedgehog's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    If the FRS and Sage Mode made Naruto a genius, Why would that not have been stated by now? Naruto has been praise plenty for learning the two, Yet no one has referred to him as a genius. Not Kakashi, Not Yamato, Not the Toads. So logic would state that he's not considered a genius.
    Minato was hailed as a genius with no equal that came once in a decade by Jiraya in his talk with Tsunade, before he went to amegakure.
    Kakashi said that Naruto would be able to surpass Minato, a genius.
    When Naruto OHKO'ed Asura path, Fukasaku and Gamabunta had a conversation on how Naruto posture was very similar to Minato's and Jiraya, with Fukasaku saying that it looked like Naruto had surpassed those who came before him.

    So, IMO Naruto is a genius: he mastered two techniques in extremely short amounts of time, techniques that highly intelligent and skilled individuals couldn't master in larger amounts of time.
    True, he used the KB cheat code, but maybe Jiraya and Minato could've used it and still not complete the jutsus, because their insight isn't as good as Naruto IMO: a good example are the Sage frogs: Naruto enters Sage mode faster than them, yet he trained for less than a month (considering the Kage Bushin) and they are over 900 years old.
    Last edited by hakuthehedgehog; May 14, 2010 at 05:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    On that topic, anyone else think Naruto's the type of guy who would cry after sex?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I fount it interesting that had Kushina not gotten knocked up, None of them would be in the current situation. She's more responsible for the Uchiha massacre then Danzo and co. Crap, Now Sasuke has a valid reason to use his hatred against Naruto.
    LMFAO

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    The concept of genius in Naruto much like the concept of chakra levels in Naruto is skewed and used as a way to set up the reader for certain expectations of a character, other than that it's just about pointless. I believe the whole idea was to just differentiate people that had similar rank

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire01 View Post
    1) So when Raikage swings his arm he does it really slowly but the rest of the time he moves slowly. Yes when Sasuke was held stationary above his head speed didn't matter but every time he attacked he was MOVING. So speed HAS TO be a factor in the impact of all his attacks. If you're not moving you're not attacking.

    2) Half the things that happen in naruto are physically impossible. i simply explained the actual spoeed of lightning cause you had got it wrong. not cause i'm suggesting it's physically possible to dodge it. On the other hand Kishi showed the Raikage's speed as so fast when dodging Amaterasu it left an after image! That is physically impossible! So what's the point in telling me attaining that speed is physically impossible when it has no bearing on the manga? Physically impossible stuff happens all the time

    3) Hmmm... well he uses a Dojutsu and I would have thought turning yourself into a chakra vortex was more of a ninjutsu than a taijutsu. Also he doesn't get much panel time, same as all the rookies apart from team Kakashi so you're not going to see all the jutsu he, and the others should be assumed to be able to do. You'll only ever get their signiature jutsu in the manga cause that's all the space they are getting. Same goes for Raikage and probably all the other Kage. By your logic Mizukage has at least 3 elements but only ever uses her bloodline limit because that's all we've seen?

    4) Did it say somewhere he got absolutely battered by the first? I don't remember reading that? Can you link the page please? Also if you think the way he and Nagato fought showed they were stupid then you mustn't read much shounen battle manga. Bad guys (and good guys) always slowly build up their attacks and give their opponents a chance to figure them out and beat them. It's not meant to show they are stupid, it's meant to make for intersting fights! The fact Kakuzu sent a hand and spare heart into the ground to prepare for Shikamaru's attacks show's he's clever. How else is Kishi meant to show him as clever in a fight he's going to lose with the number of panels he has availible?

    5) a confirmed genius in a proper fight.... hmmm... Neji? Now how did he do again? Oh! He outsmarted him to win!

    6)So your opinion is Pa was desperate to get animal realm into Bun's mouth for no reason cause they weren't using shared vision and Nagato was intentially not using a part of his six paths jutsu because he wanted a handicap? Also you're assuming it was easy to stop Naruto landing an FRS despite all the effort Kishi put into explaining why it happened with God realm's power recharging and Naruto's feints and distractions PLUS the attack rapidly growing in size? We'll have to disagree on that one. You seem pretty set in your opinions on it.
    1) Does his speed make him super strong? No, he broke through a fucking wall and made huge crater from with Sasuke and Sussano by smashing him into the ground. The Raiton armor does not make him physically stronger which is what you orginally seemed to think. Technically, his blows would have more power behind them by virtue of his speed, but that's true for every attack.

    2) All the rules and regulations of physics still apply to this manga, which would mean the Raikage's body is incapable of moving at the speed you said unless we are told otherwise. Again, his body would tear itself apart if he moved faster than Kirin. Gravity, repulsion forces of the Shinra Tensei, and Kirin's dynamics all prove that the laws of physics apply in the realm of Naruto.

    3) If we haven't seen it, theres no point in speculating about it becasue we have no evidence to support the claim. When you have evidence, let me know. Otherwise, I'm going on what we have seen and heard, not what our imaginations can come with it. What ifs and maybes don't mean anything unless they have some evidence to back them up. And no, being a certain rank is not grounds for evidence.

    4) I've read plenty of Shounen, and within this manga there are plenty of shinobi who aren't as dumb as Nagato or Kakazu. They were both over confident in their abilites and failed to defeat their opponent who was severly undermatched against them for the most part. So excuse me for looking down on the two of them.

    5) O yes, only after the Kyuubi bailed him out and essentially made him faster and recharged him. He displayed his intelligence only after he got his ass kicked for nearly the entire fight. And then, he manages to win with one punch. Very realistic.

    6) Pa wanted to trap Animal Realm in there to destroy the dog summons they couldn't defeat, not because of the shared vision so get the facts straight there.

    Deva proved to us its rather easy to dodge FRS when he basically jumped over it. And why the hell couldn't of Hungry Ghost realm jumped in front of the one that killed animal realm and absorbed it? He was fast enough, but chose not to for some stupid reason. The only explanation would seem to be that Nagato couldn't think fast enough to do that.


    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog View Post
    Minato was hailed as a genius with no equal that came once in a decade by Jiraya in his talk with Tsunade, before he went to amegakure.
    Kakashi said that Naruto would be able to surpass Minato, a genius.
    When Naruto OHKO'ed Asura path, Fukasaku and Gamabunta had a conversation on how Naruto posture was very similar to Minato's and Jiraya, with Fukasaku saying that it looked like Naruto had surpassed those who came before him.

    So, IMO Naruto is a genius: he mastered two techniques in extremely short amounts of time, techniques that highly intelligent and skilled individuals couldn't master in larger amounts of time.
    True, he used the KB cheat code, but maybe Jiraya and Minato could've used it and still not complete the jutsus, because their insight isn't as good as Naruto IMO: a good example are the Sage frogs: Naruto enters Sage mode faster than them, yet he trained for less than a month (considering the Kage Bushin) and they are over 900 years old.
    Surpassing a genius does not make you a genius, it never has and it never will. You can surpass a genius by taking the work they failed to finish and advancing it. Again, that does not make you a genius.

    Naruto did not learn FRS in a short amount of time. Firstly, he had to have Tenzou and Kakashi help him with the basic formula for it as he didn't even know the basics, proving once again he's no genius. Then, with Kage Bushins, he had YEARS of training under his belt before he completed the jutsu. So he didn't do it quick.

    Minato and Jiraiya could not have used the Kage Bushin trick to the extent Naruto did. If they did, it would for arguments sake, increase their training time x5 if they had 4 clones plus the orginal. Naruto was making hundreds of clones at a time, and when his chakra ran out he used the Kyuubi's. No one can do what he did.
    Last edited by Delbi; May 14, 2010 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    1) Does his speed make him super strong? No, he broke through a fucking wall and made huge crater from with Sasuke and Sussano by smashing him into the ground. The Raiton armor does not make him physically stronger which is what you orginally seemed to think. Technically, his blows would have more power behind them by virtue of his speed, but that's true for every attack.
    I would think that because his central nervous system gets a kick into overdrive that his ability to message his muscles to contract would make him stronger. At any rate, being able to move faster means that he is either performing the same amount of work at a faster pace, performing more work at the same pace or a combination of the two. In any case he's much more powerful physically with the armor than without it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire01 View Post

    2) Half the things that happen in naruto are physically impossible. i simply explained the actual spoeed of lightning cause you had got it wrong. not cause i'm suggesting it's physically possible to dodge it. On the other hand Kishi showed the Raikage's speed as so fast when dodging Amaterasu it left an after image! That is physically impossible! So what's the point in telling me attaining that speed is physically impossible when it has no bearing on the manga? Physically impossible stuff happens all the time
    That's not totally impossible.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6yJG_fnJRc

    There are afterimages there because it is moving too fast for the human eye to keep a clear track of.
    Last edited by Lord Abortion; May 14, 2010 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I said nothing about them being easy. I stated they didn't need any extra-ordinary intelligences to do. Just because many people haven't done it doesn't mean someone needs to be a genius to do. Take the regular Rasengan. It's suppose to be the ultimate shape manipulation, But anyone who knows how could make it as long as they fit the requirements.

    My point about Lee still stands. Lee was physically limited and still manage to learn the gates. He's set apart from anyone else who could or have learnt it. Naruto has no limit to his skills as that. If merely learning something others couldn't do made one a genius, Wouldn't that apply to the Rinnegan and Nagato? Or the Yamanaka's and their mind powers? Or Yamato and his Mokuton? Or Tsunade and her medical abilities? Or any other ninja with unique abilities? But that's not the case. In fact, Most of those referred to as geniuses hadn't done anything unique when they gain that title. So there's nothing stating that such a thing is a requirement of a genius except for Lee, Who clearly a special case.
    Your comparison between FRS/sage mode and Yamato, Nagato etc is just a bit silly. Rinnegan and Mokuton are bloodline limits. you get those from your genes. It's not like you're learning something other people are unable to learn because you're a genius, it's just the way your genetics are.

    As far as clan techniques, same thing really. If they aren't bloodline limits then the reason they STILL aren't even similar is other people don't/can't learn those techniques because those clans keep the training for those techniques a closely guarded secret. It's not about ability, it's just about being born into a clan.

    On the other hand Lee openning those gates AND Naruto making FRS and learning to be a perfect sage are things that other people can attempt as proven by the fact Kakashi and the 4th attempted to add nature to rasengan and a load of stone frogs attempted to become a sage.

    So Naruto completed 2 incredibly powerful techniques that almost anyone can try (as long as they have the chakra) but almost all fail at. So his success is special, not simply an issue of genetics or having the training availible.

    So again, if Lee is a genius for openning those gates I really don't see why Naruto isn't a genius for FRS and perfect sage mode. Comparing it to bloodline limits and clan techniques makes no sense at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Abortion View Post
    That's not totally impossible.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6yJG_fnJRc

    There are afterimages there because it is moving too fast for the human eye to keep a clear track of.
    Thanks for the link but I meant a person cannot move that fast under their own steam, not you can't do it with machines or even people strapped into machines potentially. Hope that's more clear.
    Last edited by Bonfire01; May 14, 2010 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    While it's true that a ninja genius wouldn't need to possess a high IQ, They are all still pretty much intelligent compared to most ninjas.
    Not every "genius" has been shown as intelligent compared to other ninjas. The red dots in the images below mark the databook chart intelligence section.


    Nara Shikamaru (Int 5)........... Hyuuga Neji (Int 3)..................Rock Lee (Int 2)
    Last edited by jdw; May 14, 2010 at 07:07 PM.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    All the rules and regulations of physics still apply to this manga, which would mean the Raikage's body is incapable of moving at the speed you said unless we are told otherwise. Again, his body would tear itself apart if he moved faster than Kirin. Gravity, repulsion forces of the Shinra Tensei, and Kirin's dynamics all prove that the laws of physics apply in the realm of Naruto.


    Pa wanted to trap Animal Realm in there to destroy the dog summons they couldn't defeat, not because of the shared vision so get the facts straight there.
    Not got tons of time right now so i'll respond to those two.

    First what on earth are you talking about when you say normal physics applies to the manga? People have been moving waaaaaaaaaay faster than is physically possible for ages! We have elements appearing out of thin air, we have someone producing ridiculous levels of gravitational force over finite areas where in reality that much gravity at the distance shown when pain blew up Konaha would have continued to effect objects at a much greater distance to a reducing degree. Not a uniform distribution over a finite area. Kishi throws in a few bits to keep us emersed BUT real world physics it isn't. ps.... if you want to say ninja techniques are integral to plot so not obeying physics shouldn't matter it still doesn't cover the completely unrealistic effects of God reals Gravity technique.

    Lastly I know Pa wanted to get the summons killed BUT where on earth are these "facts" to support you saying getting Animal path into Bun's mouth was nothing to do with shared sight? If he didn't care about the sight why get the path in there in the first place. We'd already seen Naruto was way faster than any path when he was in sage mode so it can't be just to stop the animal path escaping. So although it's not explicitly stated the reason that makes most sense is that it was to break shared sight! Even if you say I have no proof (fair enough point) you have ABSOLUTELY no proof either. You are just stating an opinion, as am I. Just so happen mine makes a bit more sense IMO and you're only stating yours to support your arguement, not cause it's logical.


    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    Not every "genius" has been shown as incredibly intelligent compared to other ninjas. The red dots in the images below mark the databook chart intelligence section.


    Nara Shikamaru (Int 5)........... Hyuuga Neji (Int 3)..................Rock Lee (Int 2)
    I wish i'd thought of posting that..... would have saved me a ton of typing hehe.
    Last edited by Bonfire01; May 14, 2010 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog View Post
    Minato was hailed as a genius with no equal that came once in a decade by Jiraya in his talk with Tsunade, before he went to amegakure.
    Kakashi said that Naruto would be able to surpass Minato, a genius.
    When Naruto OHKO'ed Asura path, Fukasaku and Gamabunta had a conversation on how Naruto posture was very similar to Minato's and Jiraya, with Fukasaku saying that it looked like Naruto had surpassed those who came before him.
    As Delbi said, Surpassing a genius doesn't make him a genius. Especially since he was just building on what Minato created. Naruto's training with FRS and Sage Mode didn't make him any smarter nor faster then either one of them. He merely gain a more powerful technique.

    Honestly, I don't really feel that Naruto should have been said to have surpassed those two. That implies that Minato and Jiraiya were only skilled at using raw power, Which isn't the case at all. They possessed other skills which Naruto has yet to overcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by hakuthehedgehog View Post
    So, IMO Naruto is a genius: he mastered two techniques in extremely short amounts of time, techniques that highly intelligent and skilled individuals couldn't master in larger amounts of time.
    True, he used the KB cheat code, but maybe Jiraya and Minato could've used it and still not complete the jutsus, because their insight isn't as good as Naruto IMO: a good example are the Sage frogs: Naruto enters Sage mode faster than them, yet he trained for less than a month (considering the Kage Bushin) and they are over 900 years old.
    Naruto spent time equal to decades learning FRS, While we know Minato and Kakashi couldn't have spend more then a couple of years attempting it. Neither Jiraiya nor Minato have the same massive chakra supply as Naruto has. Jiraiya has been shown only making one clone in several fights and we really don't know if Minato even knew Kage Bunshins. As for entering Sage Mode, Naruto has yet to enter it faster then Pa Toad has. also, From what we have seen, Once Sage Mode is learnt, There's no more training it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire01 View Post
    Your comparison between FRS/sage mode and Yamato, Nagato etc is just a bit silly. Rinnegan and Mokuton are bloodline limits. you get those from your genes. It's not like you're learning something other people are unable to learn because you're a genius, it's just the way your genetics are.

    As far as clan techniques, same thing really. If they aren't bloodline limits then the reason they STILL aren't even similar is other people don't/can't learn those techniques because those clans keep the training for those techniques a closely guarded secret. It's not about ability, it's just about being born into a clan.

    On the other hand Lee openning those gates AND Naruto making FRS and learning to be a perfect sage are things that other people can attempt as proven by the fact Kakashi and the 4th attempted to add nature to rasengan and a load of stone frogs attempted to become a sage.

    So Naruto completed 2 incredibly powerful techniques that almost anyone can try (as long as they have the chakra) but almost all fail at. So his success is special, not simply an issue of genetics or having the training availible.

    So again, if Lee is a genius for openning those gates I really don't see why Naruto isn't a genius for FRS and perfect sage mode. Comparing it to bloodline limits and clan techniques makes no sense at all.
    I compared Yamato and Nagato because like Naruto, They possessed something unique that allow them to learn something others couldn't. Naruto has the same thing: The Kyuubi. Due to the Kyuubi increasing his natural chakra reserve, He was able to create a massive amount of clones to aid in his learning of the FRS. Similar situation with clan techniques. The only reason more people don't know it is because they aren't connected to the toads like Naruto and Jiraiya was.

    It was never about Naruto figuring out something no one else has ever done. Naruto was able to learn the FRS because of his clones which Minato and Kakashi can't do and Naruto didn't become a stone toad because Pa was there to keep him from turning into one. Not to mention the stone toads don't tell us how many people succeed and how many failed. Thus it's a one sided comparison. That's nothing like with Lee, Whose disability would have normally prevented something like learning the Eight Gates. Naruto's success is special, But not in the way Lee's was special. Naruto was able to do the things he did because unlike the others, He had people to push him along and the unique power of the Kyuubi. Lee lack the ability to become an actual ninja and with nothing to help him was able to learn to use the Gates.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    Not every "genius" has been shown as intelligent compared to other ninjas. The red dots in the images below mark the databook chart intelligence section.


    Nara Shikamaru (Int 5)........... Hyuuga Neji (Int 3)..................Rock Lee (Int 2)
    I never said they were comparable in intelligence. I said that they were intelligent compared to most ninjas, Which the stats don't disprove. I would only be disproved if there were many ninjas above them.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire01 View Post

    Thanks for the link but I meant a person cannot move that fast under their own steam, not you can't do it with machines or even people strapped into machines potentially. Hope that's more clear.

    Even if you wave your hand in front of your face it will leave a blur. So I'm just saying if you could move that fast it would leave the blur, although I agree with you that its not possible under real world conditions for a person to side step and make a slight after image.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Abortion View Post
    I would think that because his central nervous system gets a kick into overdrive that his ability to message his muscles to contract would make him stronger. At any rate, being able to move faster means that he is either performing the same amount of work at a faster pace, performing more work at the same pace or a combination of the two. In any case he's much more powerful physically with the armor than without it.
    <hr noshade size="1">
    Unless the Raiton armor involves the Gates (which I wouldn't doubt) it does not make him stronger. It's never been stated to make him stronger which I think would have been worth mentioning.

    I'm well aware that the physics aspect of the whole scenerio would provide more force to his punches by virtue of how fast he is moving. But we clearly saw with his Laiger Bomb and Leg Drop that his most powerful moves don't involve him moving terribly fast, in fact he was standing still for both of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Abortion View Post
    That's not totally impossible.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6yJG_fnJRc

    There are afterimages there because it is moving too fast for the human eye to keep a clear track of.
    O I'm well aware that leaving after images is possible, but the human body would quite literally tear itself to pieces from moving as fast as a lightning bolt which was my point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bonfire01 View Post
    Not got tons of time right now so i'll respond to those two.

    First what on earth are you talking about when you say normal physics applies to the manga? People have been moving waaaaaaaaaay faster than is physically possible for ages! We have elements appearing out of thin air, we have someone producing ridiculous levels of gravitational force over finite areas where in reality that much gravity at the distance shown when pain blew up Konaha would have continued to effect objects at a much greater distance to a reducing degree. Not a uniform distribution over a finite area. Kishi throws in a few bits to keep us emersed BUT real world physics it isn't. ps.... if you want to say ninja techniques are integral to plot so not obeying physics shouldn't matter it still doesn't cover the completely unrealistic effects of God reals Gravity technique.

    Lastly I know Pa wanted to get the summons killed BUT where on earth are these "facts" to support you saying getting Animal path into Bun's mouth was nothing to do with shared sight? If he didn't care about the sight why get the path in there in the first place. We'd already seen Naruto was way faster than any path when he was in sage mode so it can't be just to stop the animal path escaping. So although it's not explicitly stated the reason that makes most sense is that it was to break shared sight! Even if you say I have no proof (fair enough point) you have ABSOLUTELY no proof either. You are just stating an opinion, as am I. Just so happen mine makes a bit more sense IMO and you're only stating yours to support your arguement, not cause it's logical.
    <hr noshade size="1">
    Ok, starting with the first part.

    Normal physics due apply to the manga as I've previously stated. Gravity is still at work, Kirin was basically a physics and chemistry lesson, and Tsuande and Naruto's fast passed regeneration shortening their life spans is based on truth.

    Now, people moving way faster than they should is not them breaking the laws of physics, but them doing things that are humanly impossible to us. The human body is still capable, physically of handling the stress of moving at high speeds, just take what astrounauts due when they come back into earths orbit as an example.

    I wasn't talking about people doing things that are humanly impossible, but impossible by the laws of physics. So the Raikage will never move as fast as a lightning bolt because his body wouldn't be able to take it.

    Moving on, elements don't appear out of thin air, they are made from chakra which is a fictional type of energy. So there is an explanation as to how they are formed, it just happens to do with the rules of the manga and not our own rules. Even still, these elements that appear still have to work within the realms of real world physics. Katon's can't move that fast, same with Suitons because of their mass. (Ameratsu doesn't move fast, it appears so lets not get into that).

    As for God Realms gravity techniques. They would be impossible if it was gravity and repulsion he was using. This was only a theory by Kakashi, it was never proven and I'm waiting for the next databook so we can get some kind of explanation. Or perhaps Madara will once explain it to us. If it was Gravity, I'd gladly admit I was wrong, but Kakashi's opinion is not proof.

    As for the second paragraph, I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

    Animal Realm needed to be killed because her summons were doing the only real damage out of all the Pain bodies. So, they seperated her from the group and put her in Bunta's mouth so no one would disturb Naruto trying to kill her. By virtue of it being dark, the shared vision didn't work, but how was Pain trying to use his shared vision to help him fight Naruto? It could have been light and the result would have been in the exact same in Bunta's mouth.
    Last edited by Delbi; May 14, 2010 at 09:48 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  13. #506
    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Animal Realm needed to be killed because her summons were doing the only real damage out of all the Pain bodies. So, they seperated her from the group and put her in Bunta's mouth so no one would disturb Naruto trying to kill her. By virtue of it being dark, the shared vision didn't work, but how was Pain trying to use his shared vision to help him fight Naruto? It could have been light and the result would have been in the exact same in Bunta's mouth.
    I am not sure I agree. Pa devised a plan to cut the shared vision of the rinnegan. This resulted in Ma using Sage Tech Dust Cloud, and then Pa threw Bunta toward Naruto, then Bunta put the summoning Pain in his mouth. Breaking the shared vision confused Pain, and none of them knew where to find the summoner!. Even if Pain doesn't say "i'll use shared vision right now!!!" the fact that they share vision allows then to help each other, etc (like when they used it to dodge FRS and also helped each other). Pa's plan removed the possibility of help because he blinded the Pain bodies before having Bunta place one in his mouth. So, after Pain used shared vision to dodge FRS and help each other, Pa broke the shared vision to take a Pain and Isolate him so that Naruto could take him out without the others knowing where the intended victim was.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    I never said they were comparable in intelligence. I said that they were intelligent compared to most ninjas, Which the stats don't disprove. I would only be disproved if there were many ninjas above them.
    The point of those databook graphs was to show a range of intellect among those labeled genius. Shikamaru at 5 intelligence, Neji at 3 intelligence, and Lee at 2. Shikamaru's 5 shows that he is among the most intelligent characters. That Neji has a 3 means that he is likely average when it comes to intelligence when compared to shinobi generally. And poor Lee's 2 probably places him toward the bottom of the intellectual pile.
    Last edited by jdw; May 14, 2010 at 10:21 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  14. #507
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    I am not sure I agree. Pa devised a plan to cut the shared vision of the rinnegan. This resulted in Ma using Sage Tech Dust Cloud, and then Pa threw Bunta toward Naruto, then Bunta put the summoning Pain in his mouth. Breaking the shared vision confused Pain, and none of them knew where to find the summoner!. Even if Pain doesn't say "i'll use shared vision right now!!!" the fact that they share vision allows then to help each other, etc (like when they used it to dodge FRS and also helped each other). Pa's plan removed the possibility of help because he blinded the Pain bodies before having Bunta place one in his mouth. So, after Pain used shared vision to dodge FRS and help each other, Pa broke the shared vision to take a Pain and Isolate him so that Naruto could take him out without the others knowing where the intended victim was.
    <hr noshade size="1">
    I really don't see how this technique wouldn't be made usable in any situation, not just one that involved Pain. Ma got rid of everyone's ability to see. Naruto's ability to sense people I'm guessing allowed him to find Animal Realm.

    The whole reason this was done was to stop the dogs though. It had nothing to do with stopping the Pain's from using their shared vision, that wasn' t what its intention was which is what I was getting at.

    My other point was that Pain never used the shared vision to his advantage. If all the Pain bodies have the same general perspective, which is what they had for the majority of the fight, then the shared vision is useless. Naruto never had to deal with the fact that their shared vision hindered them because they all came at him straight on. His summons also took the heat off of him from all the other summons like they were supposed to.

    And I fail to see how helping one another out constitues to something you can only do if you have shared vision. They could all see the FRS coming at them and knew the danger it posed. Any ninjas would have been capable of doing that reguardless.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  15. #508
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    The difference between Jiraiya and Naruto's fight with Pain was Naruto had information. The location was also important. Pain couldn't all of the sudden surround Naruto, especially since he had to protect Deva and Naraku. Nagato's shared vision excels in an area with hills or rocks in sight or areas that can be hard for one person to fully see. In an open area, unless the bodies surround the enemy, the shared vision isn't used at its best. Not to mention, Jiraiya had one boss summon whereas Naruto had at least three.
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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ryr's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    All the numbers in the databook are useless.

    The best measure of a person's intellect is the way in which he or she fights in combat. If you fight smartly you are smart. If you are not fighting smartly you are not smart. Plain and simple. Screw the numbers.

    As for who is a genius and who is not, try inventing at least one new jutsu first then we can start talking. Otherwise it's similar to claiming that a student is bright when he has never gotten any A.
    Last edited by Ryr; May 18, 2010 at 12:56 PM. Reason: simple not simply

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    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryr View Post
    All the numbers in the databook are useless.

    The best measure of a person's intellect is the way in which he or she fights in combat. If you fight smartly you are smart. If you are not fighting smartly you are not smart. Plain and simple. Screw the numbers.

    As for who is a genius and who is not, try inventing at least one new jutsu first then we can start talking. Otherwise it's similar to claiming that a student is bright when he has never gotten any A.
    The numbers in the databook matter because they show relationships between the characters in chosen categories.

    As for invention of jutsu being some kind of litmus test for who is a genius, I will ask you to back this up with facts. You said it, now support it fully. The manga has made references to a few people worthy enough to be called a "genius," so if you would provide the at least one invented jutsu from each of them, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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