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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
I think for me, I always disliked the fact that Kishi made him look stupid when I always thought he was a genius or close enough. The reason for this was how he seemed to be able to come up with strategies in the middle of a fight... yet the next minute, he will look like an idiot...
Difference between a savant and a genius is a savant can only think in abstract ways, and are only good at one sort of thing, like math, or music. Similar to Naruto.
Geniuses are good at almost everything, and while they can think abstractly as well, they can also understand things normally and can do so to great lengths, something Naruto cannot do.
It was Shikaku's plan to distribute chakra wasn't it? Kurama made a note about Shikaku understanding his chakra or something. If anything, Naruto is a genius in the category of senjutsu. He's clearly the best human senjutsu user ever aside from maybe Kabuto- but then again he's pretty genius for boiling together a bunch of bloodlines and taking the long way around to achieve senjutsu.
To be fair, all the main characters are geniuses in the same way that Zeus and Vishnu and Amaterasu were all geniuses: It's a manga about mythology through the POV of a bunch of teenage military recruits. True genius is a tricky thing to define- one can call Kabuto less of a genius for stealing bloodlines, but that's only a wee bit more derivative than, say, Minato creating the rasengan based on the bijuu bomb, and only 'cheating' insofar as using KB to master senjutsu is 'cheating'. It's just evil cheating as opposed to heroic cheating lol
Last edited by toussaintac; January 29, 2013 at 09:35 AM.
1. I'm not contradicting myself. I said that the only indication in which they were called Geniuses was because of school, if you exclude their ocular powers, because that was precisely in the context when they were spoken about as geniuses.
Do I have to insult your intelligence? You're debating me through 5 pages and ask me if the cleverness is the only thing that makes him Genius? Are you fucking serious?
2. Yeah, but that's also his ability which you shouldn't question, just how I don't question, for example, Shino's bugs.
3. What is your point through this? Naruto mastered Rasenshuriken ALONE, I've said it multiple times.
I guess you never experienced the high of being constantly praised. That's why you probably don't understand where that's coming from. Their status doesn't matter, as well, as what they thought. They knew they were from the Genius bloodline and that they have powers yet to unlock. Naruto didn't know it. THE ONLY DIFFRENCE, YET AGAIN. I'm like a broken record in this debate.
They didn't have it easy, but it was a piece of cake comparing to Naruto's situation.
Naruto STILL wants to be a Hokage. And now that he knows where he hails from, now that he knows he has affection of others, his true talents are coming to light. WHICH IS WHY HE'S A GENIUS.
Last edited by Delbi; January 29, 2013 at 09:56 AM.
There's plenty to debate that. First, 'idiot savant' is a horribly outdated misnomer that was used to describe Down syndrome. I don't think Naruto has a "serious mental disorder" as described in the article, much less something like autism. He's just a socially awkward dolt who's maybe got a head full of ADD at worst.
---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------
Last edited by badluckartist; January 29, 2013 at 09:46 AM.
2) The ability isn't the point as you obviously don't understand what I was trying to get across. YES, it's his ability, but what is his ability doing? Allowing him to train 30-40 years, in 3-4 days. His brain needs 30-40 years of knowledge to do what he did. The brain is all that matters when it comes to being a genius, as it's an intellectual property. Accomplishing something in 30-40 years is not an act of genius despite how great the accomplishment is. That was why I compared him to Sasuke, because Sasuke created Kirin in 1-2 1/2 years by comparison.
3) No he didn't lol. He needed Kakashi and Tenzou's help, without them the couldn't have done it.
4) I've watched children be praised to no end. Praise does not make one great, the act of being great makes one great. Parents like to praise their children all the time for sub par work. Positive re-enforcement only goes so far, believe me.
5) It was a piece of cake compared to Naruto's situation...do you not see how fucked up in the head Sasuke is because of what he went through? Are you kidding? Neji's father was killed and he had a cursed seal put on his forehead at 4. He was then made into A SLAVE.
I'm not saying one of the three of them had it worse, but none of them had it easy by comparison.
---------- Post added at 09:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------
Shikamaru's grandfather.... Genius' dont have to be able to use Ninjutsu...
I get your point but what you don't get is that the mechanics of Naruto's ability is irrelevant, in this case faster learning speed. You view it as a cheat, and that's what, I and many others, find ridiculous. If Sasuke didn't have MS in various fights, he'd surely lose. Yeah, see what I did? What you're doing. But what am I accomplishing with "WHAT IF's"? Absolutely nothing. So yeah, your points don't really downgrade Naruto's genius or powers, at least not objectively.
That wasn't mastering Rasenshuriken's help, which you fail to grasp continuously. Kakashi nor Tenzou Didn't know shit what the outcome of that training was gonna be. Hence, Naruto ALONE MADE that technique. I don't think I can be any more clear than that.
Praise can get into one's head if not careful enough, but if used correctly, it can be a powerful tool to reach new heights. Psychology.
Everyone in this manga is more or less fucked up. It's the degree to which they're fucked up.
Well the manga is not consistent with the term genius...but I don't think he is one...he just uses stuff that he observed being done in the past...and he has different applications...and he's been through a lot too, so he's supposed to be evolving and doing awesome things...the thing with geniuses is that they've been doing awesome things before they were mainstream
---------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------
I'd still like to ask everyone to be careful not to wander too off topic, since it's pretty easy to just start a comparison and then talk pages worth of part 1.
And no insults. Thanks!