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Thread: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    How is it mean? Naruto's shown he didn't completely understand stuff, but it didn't stop him from trying it or training to do it. Though to be honest, I can't think of an example right now.
    He most likely worked hard to combine his newly learned wind element with his rasengan without having any clue of what he was actually doing?!? THIS is mean. It suggests that Naruto is a moron, who carries out everything without thinking. Although his kagebunshin training doesn't make sense (unless the clones are all different from each other?!?) him trying again and again at combining the two - then adapting his method based on the results of his efforts - then adapting them again... Perfecting, perfecting, perfecting... This requires understanding of what you are doing (or else you would never get anywhere at all).
    Infinite RAGE!

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    He most likely worked hard to combine his newly learned wind element with his rasengan without having any clue of what he was actually doing?!? THIS is mean. It suggests that Naruto is a moron, who carries out everything without thinking. Although his kagebunshin training doesn't make sense (unless the clones are all different from each other?!?) him trying again and again at combining the two - then adapting his method based on the results of his efforts - then adapting them again... Perfecting, perfecting, perfecting... This requires understanding of what you are doing (or else you would never get anywhere at all).
    Also if he was doing things without understanding them, it wouldn't make sense for him to improve the moment he learned Asuma's trick

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    Naruto understand things if they are told in a way he understands, Gamakichi made that example for Sage Mode and he understood it right away, Jiraiya was the same.
    Kakashi didn't bother, since he knew Naruto understood things just as well by experiencing them
    Basically, they have to dumb it up so horribly for him to understand. Still does not make him a genius. Though I don't remember how Jiraiya was the same.... Even when Jiraiya mentioned genjutsu, Naruto was going all "huh? What's the point?!" A genius like Minato would have known or not have asked for an obvious answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    He most likely worked hard to combine his newly learned wind element with his rasengan without having any clue of what he was actually doing?!? THIS is mean. It suggests that Naruto is a moron, who carries out everything without thinking. Although his kagebunshin training doesn't make sense (unless the clones are all different from each other?!?) him trying again and again at combining the two - then adapting his method based on the results of his efforts - then adapting them again... Perfecting, perfecting, perfecting... This requires understanding of what you are doing (or else you would never get anywhere at all).
    I actually think the training does make sense. Each clone can try something different and be told or ordered to do something different.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Basically, they have to dumb it up so horribly for him to understand. Still does not make him a genius. Though I don't remember how Jiraiya was the same.... Even when Jiraiya mentioned genjutsu, Naruto was going all "huh? What's the point?!" A genius like Minato would have known or not have asked for an obvious answer.
    And I didn't say Naruto was a genius and if geniuses are only intelligent people, then Sakura > Rookies combined

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Geniuses don't necessarily have to be intelligent people, just gifted. Sasuke was gifted, he was at top of his class. Itachi was gifted, he was pretty wise and graduated early. Minato was gifted, he was able to understand quickly, make up a plan on the fly, and create or use some complex jutsu. Naruto has trouble understanding simple explanations of Kakashi. -_-

    And who do you consider the rookies? Ain't Neji, Rock Le, and Tenten, at the least, yo.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Geniuses don't necessarily have to be intelligent people, just gifted. Sasuke was gifted, he was at top of his class. Itachi was gifted, he was pretty wise and graduated early. Minato was gifted, he was able to understand quickly, make up a plan on the fly, and create or use some complex jutsu. Naruto has trouble understanding simple explanations of Kakashi. -_-
    But yet he is gifted enough to do things that no one else can - i.e. improve EVERY TECHNIQUE that he does, shape his chakra to ANYONE.

    Understanding explanations (no matter how simple you may consider them) is not a prerequisite for genius. Naruto understands things well enough if explained in the right way for him - For example: As Gamitchi (whatever the frog's name was) explained not as Kakashi (or Pa frog) thinks is easy...

    Why is the idea of Naruto being a genius such an anathema to you?
    (here's a little secret)
    Spoiler show


    guess that is me for this topic - not going anywhere...
    Enjoy desperately trying to relegate Naruto to the category of moronic failure who only achieves what he has through blind luck/with no understanding whatsoever of what he is doing...
    Infinite RAGE!

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Geniuses don't necessarily have to be intelligent people, just gifted. Sasuke was gifted, he was at top of his class. Itachi was gifted, he was pretty wise and graduated early. Minato was gifted, he was able to understand quickly, make up a plan on the fly, and create or use some complex jutsu. Naruto has trouble understanding simple explanations of Kakashi. -_-

    And who do you consider the rookies? Ain't Neji, Rock Le, and Tenten, at the least, yo.
    What do you mean with "gifted" ?
    And again Sasuke wasn't on top of the class, Ino graduated as number one

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    He most likely worked hard to combine his newly learned wind element with his rasengan without having any clue of what he was actually doing?!? THIS is mean. It suggests that Naruto is a moron, who carries out everything without thinking. Although his kagebunshin training doesn't make sense (unless the clones are all different from each other?!?) him trying again and again at combining the two - then adapting his method based on the results of his efforts - then adapting them again... Perfecting, perfecting, perfecting... This requires understanding of what you are doing (or else you would never get anywhere at all).
    Naruto is a moron. The fact that Kakashi had to tell Naruto he can learn from his clones despite the fact that Naruto had been using clones for YEARS is proof of this.

    Naruto's inability to understand this is astounding, because learning from your clones is a passive ability, you don't need to concentrate to do it or even remotely try. Meaning, Naruto had been learning from them his entire life, yet was simply too stupid and air headed to realize he was receiving new information.

    ---------- Post added at 09:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    But yet he is gifted enough to do things that no one else can - i.e. improve EVERY TECHNIQUE that he does, shape his chakra to ANYONE.
    And yet we have no reasonable explanation as to how he was capable of doing this. None whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    Understanding explanations (no matter how simple you may consider them) is not a prerequisite for genius. Naruto understands things well enough if explained in the right way for him - For example: As Gamitchi (whatever the frog's name was) explained not as Kakashi (or Pa frog) thinks is easy...
    The need to have an explanation dumbed down into layman's terms is a sign of lack of intelligence. Genius, is an intellectual property, thus if you are lacking in intelligence it is awfully difficult to argue that you are genius.

    Now, in this manga, genius is identified early in life. Every genius in the manga was identified as a genius at young ages, immediately. This was due to their ability to learn complex things quickly, or even teach them to themselves. And all the while, they do these things with ease.

    Nothing has ever come easy for Naruto. He's had to fight tooth and nail for every inch he's ever earned.

    You point out not taking away from Itachi and Sasuke's genius. But why are you so hell bent on claiming Naruto's feats are acts of genius instead of being acts of hard work?

    As for luck, every ninja needs luck, but not being biased here, don't you think Naruto (and is many ways Sasuke) has had a lot more luck than others? Both of them have had to rely on others to save their asses when they should have been dead (Kakashi, Minato, Itachi, and Kushina for Naruto) (Obito, Zetsu, Orochimaru, and Itachi for Sasuke). And both have had to rely on internal powers (Kyuubi and HATRED FTW!, respectively) to overcome and push them through dire situations.

    So saying Naruto hasn't been lucky, is avoiding facts. Hell, he wouldn't even be where he is right now probably if he never farted in Kiba's face to help him win a fight in the Chunnin exams lol.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    But yet he is gifted enough to do things that no one else can - i.e. improve EVERY TECHNIQUE that he does, shape his chakra to ANYONE.
    That's not gifted, though, that's just him working hard to improve techniques.

    Where was it said other people couldn't shape their chakra to someone else? All I saw was Naruto shaping Kyuubi's chakra.

    Quote Quote:
    Understanding explanations (no matter how simple you may consider them) is not a prerequisite for genius. Naruto understands things well enough if explained in the right way for him - For example: As Gamitchi (whatever the frog's name was) explained not as Kakashi (or Pa frog) thinks is easy...
    How is it not? If you don't understand basic explanations, then how does that make you a genius? That's like saying not understanding basic math doesn't make an adult dumb. Too many things work against Naruto being a genius.

    Gamakichi basically dumbed it up immensely for Naruto to understand. If Naruto doesn't understand basic explanations without making it a metaphor, how does that make him a genius?

    Quote Quote:
    Why is the idea of Naruto being a genius such an anathema to you?
    (here's a little secret)
    Spoiler show


    guess that is me for this topic - not going anywhere...
    Enjoy desperately trying to relegate Naruto to the category of moronic failure who only achieves what he has through blind luck/with no understanding whatsoever of what he is doing...
    Because he freakin' isn't a genius. You can say he's clever, shrewd, or smarter than he lets on, but you can't prove he's a genius, not like Sasuke or Minato. Naruto being much smarter than he's shown makes sense. I'd accept Naruto possibly being much smarter if he had a better childhood, because Naruto's proven he's not a complete idiot.

    What do you mean take away from Itachi or Sasuke? And yeah, I consider Sasuke and Minato to be a genius.

    I'm not the one with desperate arguments here, though. Besides, if you actually do read my posts, you'd see I defend him and say he's smarter than given credit for. Naruto's the one who considers himself a failure, not me. You're bad at summarizations, though, or understanding posts. I never said Naruto was a moronic failure, all I said was that he's not a genius like people claim him to be. I don't consider Jiraiya a genius either, but I do think he's smart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood View Post
    What do you mean with "gifted" ?
    And again Sasuke wasn't on top of the class, Ino graduated as number one
    Where was that said? If I recall, flashback said Sasuke was at the top of his class and had the highest marks.

    And "gifted" as in, natural talent and stuff. like how Neji was able to learn main branch techniques on his own, like how Minato and Kakashi are able to think quite complexly and figure out stuff, and like how Itachi had the wisdom of a hokage at young age and was quite skilled at fighting due to his intellect. Shikamaru wouldn't be gifted, even though he's one of the smartest.


    Once again though, I guess despite manga stating otherwise, this is a difference of opinion.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    A genius needs perceptive ability. In other words, a genius doesn't necessarily have to possess the IQ Shikamaru has, but a genius also cannot be someone who is borderline stupid in terms of intelligence.
    Shikamaru, Sasuke and Neji are ahead of the pack compared to the other rookies. One is the best strategist of his generation, Sasuke was able to use Nature Manipulation as a child, Neji got a hold of secret Hyuuga techniques just by observation on his own, not getting trained for them at all. Gaara was one, using unrealistically powerful sand techniques as a kid.
    Naruto most recently didn't understand a word Madara said (What was it again, I don't remember), so, I don't think in the end, he will be classified as one.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    Who do you guys think is the greatest genius in Naruto. We have a lot of powerful people, some of them are geniuse based on hard work, and some mostly cuz of their bloodline. How do you rank them ?

    My choices
    1. Naruto - learned Rasengan in three days, took Rasengan to the next level, where his father and Kakashi failed. Able to use Kyuubi's chakra (not tails, just chakra) at will. Never give up attitude pushes him to greater levels.
    2. Minato - Said to be the greatest ninja ever produced by Konoha. Creator of hirashin, rasengan and the shiki fuujin. Said to be a rare decade genius. He is so great that Jiraiya would have bragged.
    3. Oro - Said to be once in a decade genius by the professor Sandaime. Part of the genius trio the sannin. Has created many jutsu's and has extensive knowledge of jutsu's.
    4. Sasuke - Sharingan wonder boy, has amazing growth, skills wise. Was able to change chidori into multiple variations. Oro complimented that even he was nothing compared to Sasuke at his age. Mastery of Sharingan and CS gives him an edge during fights.
    5. Shikamaru - Said to have genius intellect. Is able to imagine over 200 possiblities during a fight. Able to change strategies to include new member in an instant. His plans has a low failure rate.
    it seems that in japanese culture or at least in anime, that the concept of genius is the people who are born with a natural talent or didnt have to work hard to achieve their skill

    in which case the uchiha are usually geniuses because they are just born more skilled and stronger than others for example

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    it seems that in japanese culture or at least in anime, that the concept of genius is the people who are born with a natural talent or didnt have to work hard to achieve their skill

    in which case the uchiha are usually geniuses because they are just born more skilled and stronger than others for example
    No it isn't, being born with natural anything does not denote a genius. If it did, Naruto would have been a genius because of his inhuman chakra supply, same goes for the Inuzuka's with their dog like noses. And Obito, despite being an Uchiha, is no genius.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    A genius needs perceptive ability. In other words, a genius doesn't necessarily have to possess the IQ Shikamaru has, but a genius also cannot be someone who is borderline stupid in terms of intelligence.
    Shikamaru, Sasuke and Neji are ahead of the pack compared to the other rookies. One is the best strategist of his generation, Sasuke was able to use Nature Manipulation as a child, Neji got a hold of secret Hyuuga techniques just by observation on his own, not getting trained for them at all. Gaara was one, using unrealistically powerful sand techniques as a kid.
    Naruto most recently didn't understand a word Madara said (What was it again, I don't remember), so, I don't think in the end, he will be classified as one.
    Naruto's inability to understand complex speeches is mostly due the fact that the kid had no parent to teach him either how to write or read, and we know a kid self-teaching those things himself wouldn't do a good work.
    He's no brainiac, but that isn't being stupid, is being ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Where was that said? If I recall, flashback said Sasuke was at the top of his class and had the highest marks.

    And "gifted" as in, natural talent and stuff. like how Neji was able to learn main branch techniques on his own, like how Minato and Kakashi are able to think quite complexly and figure out stuff, and like how Itachi had the wisdom of a hokage at young age and was quite skilled at fighting due to his intellect. Shikamaru wouldn't be gifted, even though he's one of the smartest.


    Once again though, I guess despite manga stating otherwise, this is a difference of opinion.
    See Ino's page at narutopedia, it shows where its said that Ino was first.
    Mostly because Sasuke scored last in teamwork

    By your definition, except for saying/thinking complex things Naruto would be a genius:
    -created one of the strongest jutsu in the manga and perfected it on his own
    -one of the best shape manipulators in the entire manga, if not the best
    -able to figure out things people couldn't figure out ( Raikage's scar, method to combine Nature & shape manipulation with KBs)
    -quite skilled at fighting

    Add a chakra control several tiers beyond everyone else, and Naruto for your standards is a top notch genius

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Have to give it to Naruto, that Raikage scar deduction made him look like someone else, totally

    ---------- Post added at 01:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------

    But what I referred to wasn't a complex speech, it was a single word spelling. Naruto has gone to Academy and naturally, they all went through some sort of basic education. He should do better than that, as an orphan or not.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Have to give it to Naruto, that Raikage scar deduction made him look like someone else, totally

    ---------- Post added at 01:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------

    But what I referred to wasn't a complex speech, it was a single word spelling. Naruto has gone to Academy and naturally, they all went through some sort of basic education. He should do better than that, as an orphan or not.
    Kishi's sense of humor, making Naruto look like a retard.
    And probably believing that Luffy is popular because he's stupid, so maybe he believes Naruto will be more popular if he's more stupid
    Say what you want about Ichigo, but at least he's not from the same Goku stamp everyone else's is
    Well him and Oga, but Beelzebub is years ahead of other mangas

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