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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
During Jiraiya's conversation with Tsunade, Jiraiya states "なんせあやつは忍として器は歴代一だった...” -> "nanse ayatsu wa shinobi toshite utsuwa wa rekidaiichi datta..." -> "Afterall, his ability/caliber/capacity as a shinobi was number one in history".
Taking into the overall conversation Jiraiya had with Tsunade, Jiraiya stated Minato to be the strongest, or most powerful, shinobi. Describing Minato as "overflowing with talent for jutsu, brilliant" would imply Jiraiya stating Minato to be the greatest shinobi of all time.
Last edited by Tsukisama; October 16, 2008 at 06:55 PM.
jiraya maybe biased a bit, but he is still a clear headed guy and wont lie that much
but he also dont know much about the reningan guy. only that he founded the ninja world. so he wasnt counting him in.
well i also believe that of those who we know of now, minato had the most brilliant mind.
Would it be fair to say that the only true genius in Naruto is Shikamaru?
No. Shino Aburame is also a genius.
And Sakura Haruno is. She knows things hard even for a chunin
I dunno about shino and sakura, they may be good, but I dunno about genius....sasuke is a genius, neji too. Naruto is clever, but not a genius, though he is turning into one. I guess, what makes a genius is how well one accomplishes something and with ease...they make hard stuff look easy and learn shit without really trying...that's why sasuke learned chidori within a few days (probably learned it on the first day) while naruto took longer to learn his shit. And that's why sasuke expanded on it while naruto, until recently, was doing the same thing. The way I see it, it's the difference between the guy in high school who sleeps through all his classes and still gets all A's (a genius) and those who struggle and have to work really hard to get their A's (hardworkers like naruto, lee, et al). Then there's the ones who work hard and get no where until a genius or really good nin teaches them everything (sakura) or are born with a technique no one can really counter (shino). But to me, shino and kiba are on the same level.
Last edited by bean; April 30, 2008 at 11:57 AM.
In the Narutoverse, everyone (but Naruto) is a genius !
Would you say Shikamaru is a genius because he has a 200 IQ? The fact is official according to Asuma who tested Shikamaru. I can go by the link and the demonstration of all his battles and say that he feels like a genius tactician. But that's not the only type of genius, and he may be a true genius in how he strategizes with his shadow bind techniques--but Naruto has his sense of true genius, too.
Contrasted with Shikamaru's feeling of helplessness (signified by his fidgety) when his mission was over, and that since the battle was a failure, he was ultimately a failure, Naruto either would not or could not give up on those he cares about. It has been Naruto's genius for the longest. His exercise of interpersonal relationships to his advantage, even a relationship of contention between Naruto and a foe, or a relationship of distant challenges, wherein one, he can't know if his goal will ever be found (as with Sasuke), has allowed him to win over the hearts and minds of his opponents and/or build a stronger bond with his sense of family. He can reinforce their resolve, the sturdiness of their character, and boost their morale. And when one wants to say that Naruto has given up, look what his bonds do for him:
They cause those he built up to turn around and support Naruto. The effect of his commitment to building relationships with his family never lets Naruto down. So, when he's depressed, the people he has inspired pull him out of his sadness.
Shikamaru can become fragile in the toughness of disappointing aftermath. The lost of Asuma showed a growth in his character. But we were introduced to a Naruto who never gives up. Sure it seemed Naruto was running away with fear from Iruka and Mizuki in the first chapter, but he waited behind a tree, he waited out of view and observed/listened to Iruka's and Mizuki's talk about Naruto. He could've continued to run away.
Before then, he practiced a technique that he could use to pass his academy grad exam. But when he reached that tree, he waited to hear everything, and he changed his mind upon the conclusion about how he began to feel about Iruka. He always wanted respect, and no matter how he dwells on the sampled disappointment, he stays at the tree in chapter one to hear the whole story.
There he is like a spectator, commentating on what he witnesses--until the object he spectates can't be merely observed anymore. After he perceives what he wants to, that Iruka-sensei cares about Naruto, Naruto must then show how feels about it. So, he shows his commitment to guaranteeing himself some respect by saving Iruka with Tajuu Kage Bunshin; and, at last, Naruto's use of TKB assures him respect and lets him graduate.
When the battle's lost, Naruto wonders about what to do next so that he can continue to reach his goal. He doesn't give up on himself, because he's out to win his goal for more than himself. And those he has brought around him have been influenced enough by Naruto to be an extension of his faith. So even when Naruto falls, their hands retrieve him and propel him forward.
For Naruto, accepting himself as a failure is failing to exist for his comrades' and his mission's sake. He'll get back up again no matter how many missions are lost until he reaches the goal. He only has one ultimate mission in mind: success for those he cares about and the respect of those he admires. Every little failure along the way is just a rock to kick aside. His comrades just agree.
Last edited by ornis; December 20, 2008 at 09:17 PM.
lol @ rahan
and @ornis: great post but a few issues.
Shikamaru: I wouldn't say shikamaru is a genius because of his IQ. I'd say it because of his fighting style. The fact that he's a tactician who depends wholly upon his brain. You cite Naruto as another type of genius but is would say that Naruto far from typifies a genius due to his sheer reliance on gut instinct. That coupled with his never say die attitude gives birth to creativeness but is it genius? i wouldn't say so. Take the Kakuku fight for example. Would Naruto have been so effective if he hadn't have really wanted to use his new sharingan? I'd say the difference between him and Shikamaru is based on their capacity. Given that Naruto's now able to create clones to work i'd say that he's closing the gap on Shika but i question whether he's in the same tier.
As a tactitian, Shikamaru is not the only genius. Neji, Itachi, and Sandaime are a couple of examples of other tactical geniuses.
In terms of knowledge and intellect, other geniuses include Sakura, Kabuto, and Sandaime. (I'm sure there are other examples, but I can't think of them at the moment.)
IMO, Shikamaru is special in that he is more of genius than most other characters in a variety of ways (tactically and intellectually), but depending upon your definition of "true genius," plenty of other characers could qualify.
To be fair, i would agree with you in saying different people consider different things genius. i.e. i don't consider the capacity to store knowledge genius. i consider the capacity to use knowledge genius though.
I agree with Ornis..I think Naruto is a genius but for slightly different reasons...In his day to day situations he comes across as a clown...the true genius of Naruto shows when he gets "serious" about a situation..That is when he really applies himself and let's out the amazing fighting strategies and tactics we have seen him do over and over again....during the Sannin fight, he recognised that his rasengan was not going to be good enough to hit Kabuto, so what did he do, he figured oput a way of holding Kabuto still albeit it was Kamikaze....another simple one was how he figured away to get the bells from Kakashi...that was a good strategy which did not even require hin using any jutsu except Kakashi's sharingan against Kakashi.....
Shikamaru - definite tactical genius, Neji - Jury is still out for me....
Plus don't forget about the time he fought Kakuzu, he was able to come up with a strategy in seconds after analyzing Kakuzu's speed. When his first strategy failed, Naruto was able to come up with another one that had a tremendous success rate in another matter of seconds.
I don't see how you can question neji being a genius....not only is he more of an adept byakugan user than his "gifted" family, being part of the branch family, he isn't taught the secret techniques of the hyuuga yet was able to learn it on his own and do it even better...
Last edited by bean; May 13, 2008 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost