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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
While enviornmental factors play a part, Naruto is the way he is because of nature. You can't deny that. He inherited certain traits from his mother, and he himself is an imbecile. People have natural dispositions, no amount of outside forces can change this sometimes.
I always wondered who nurtured the child Naruto though.
Last edited by Schabrak; March 31, 2013 at 01:17 PM.
My point was though he wasn't always alone, and that he did have positive influences and he still chose to be an ass and jerk around. He did so because that's his personality, he was never going to be a good little school boy who would sit and do his work quietly.
Shikamaru's a genius, Kakashi's a genius, Sasuke's a genius. Genius is a word. Air is a word also. In some sentences, we use "air" to refer to the sky, in others we use air to refer to oxygen. Genius is a word like air.
Shikamaru is a genius in the real world conception of the word, out here we call someone who is highly intelligent as well as creative a genius. In the Narutoverse conception of the word, he's no genius.
Genius in the Narutoverse means the ability to improve at an increased rate with less effort.
Now, there are several ways to improve at an increased rate. Have a Bijuu, have a kekkei genkai, be a hardworker, or be a true genius in that one improves at an increated rate without necessarily using any of the aforementioned methods. There may be more, but for the sake of argument these 3 are fine.
So genius means improving faster than usual.
What does Sharingan do? It makes one improve faster than usual. Then by definition, anyone with Sharingan is to some degree a genius (unless the owner is at base an antigenius, in which case Sharingan lifts them up to being mediocre).
What does Tajuu Kage Bunshin do? It makes one improve faster than usual, provided it can be used for extended periods. Then by definition someone who can do this gets to be a genius.
Why is this a funny comparison? Because when you go by the criteria, Naruto's claim to being a genius is exactly equal to Sasuke's. Yet somehow to most people, it just doesn't feel intuitively right. It doesn't feel intuitively right because Naruto's obviously no genius, yet you feel that Sasuke has to be. Hard to argue with TKB's properties though, so you have to make a concession somewhere. Either Sasuke's no genius or Naruto's by definition a genius. I wouldn't call Naruto a genius just for having some loophole jutsu to improve faster. So I'm left with one last option, Sasuke's no genius.
What evidence exists in support of this, other than some rethorical conceptual argumentation? Graduation age, hardworker mentality, struggling at tree climbing training, Sharingan dependant growth so far as Shishi Rendan, attaining Lee's speed, copying Chidori. Not to mention the fact that Oro wants Sasuke's genius body, not his genius mind. Let's say Sasuke copies Oro's jutsu and uses it on some random body. Without the Uchiha body, would Sasuke still be considered genius?
If you are fine with bodies being inherently genius isolated from the mind that is in it, we're on the same page, you're not the target audience. If you disagree because you think Sasuke's genius exists separate from his heritage, you're in trouble.
ps- same goes for Neji and Kimimaro. One can be defined genius in that one has inherited one's clans special ability to a greater degree.
oh and I know there's another thread with the same name, but it sucks.
Last edited by Xrayz0r; May 21, 2013 at 07:27 AM.
Sasuke was a genius even before he awakend his sharingan. Well he had it awakened but he had no bloody clue lol. So to answer your question:
How about the fact that something like this or this would never happen to any of those people who have been labeled geniuses except of course Lee (which was nothing else then Gai's ridiculous motivating thumbs up jabbering).
Being a genius in Narutoverse was never about pure learning and progressing speed by using loophole's, its about the persons ability to process and deduce information (aka using your brain). Being a fast learner is a simple accompanying effect of the afore mentioned trait.
There's a freakin sticky about the same damn thing in this section... and it already has heaps of pages.
Last edited by LnDRash; May 21, 2013 at 06:05 AM.
Sasuke was the first in his class in school. He was also able to do a Katon that no genin should be able to do. He was also able to make Kakashi stop reading his book in that bell training. He was a genius from an elite clan even before he got the sharingan in his fight with Haku at that bridge.
Because he's lazy and simply doesn't really give a fuck?
You'd be surprised how many gifted people there are who don't bother doing anything more then they have to, rarely tapping into their potential and instead being satisfied living a completely unambitious, ordinary live.
Shikamaru is exactly like that.
Last edited by LnDRash; May 21, 2013 at 06:22 AM.
If the ability to do elemental manipulation was the criterion here, Ino, Chouji and Shikamaru would be geniuses also for having mastered yin yang manipulation.
Naruto learned SC true. Rasengan he found a way around the hard part with his clones. Problem was with perfecting Rasengan. That is what Tsunade found it imposible to believe. With no last step Rasengan was no good :P
In the bell test Kakashi completly outplayed Naruto. Yes Naruto used a smart tactic but he got COMPLETLY outplayed.
Now read what Kakashi has to say about Sasuke:
Sasuke set a trap like Naruto:
The only one to fight with Kakashi in melee and hold his own and the only one to almost get a bell:
Kakashi stating "what a guy":
Sasuke was clearly above the others going by what Kakashi states:
The stamina part comes from training dude. Training a lot = greater stamina.
Then he was able to actualy learn said justsu. Something that was a great feat going by Itachi's and Sasuke's father.
Shikamaru had Naruto level grades because he did not do shit. This point is invalidated by the manga.
Last edited by xXan; May 21, 2013 at 06:45 AM.
"xXan what's the difference? kakashi totally overplayed all team... for me genius=feats/ages... example: naruto and sasuke been small genius than minato and itachi in 10/12 years, but sasuke and naruto been bigger genius than itachi and minato in 15/17 years
Last edited by flow like; May 21, 2013 at 07:05 AM.
Point was that Sasuke outperformed Naruto and Kakashi clearly unerlined Sasuke's performance. Sasuke was a genius even before the sharingan. That was the point. Naruto was the hardworking underdog caracter with the guts to never give up.