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Thread: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

  1. #886
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I honestly don't consider that canon because it's out of character for Naruto and makes me think Kishi only showed that for either humorous purpose or for Itachi to save the jinchuuriki's asses.
    But is is canon because it actually happened. You can't chalk it up to something else, it happened, he made a massive blunder. Don't try and cover things up for him. I could say the same thing with something like Neji failing to see Naruto underground in the chunnin exams despite the fact he had a kekkai genkai that allows him to see through things.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Why bring up geniuses? I'm actually arguing against the fact that he's a genius, but I'm saying he's not as dumb as made out to be. I mean, with poor childhood and lack of focus due to habit, it's not shocking he's not as smart out of battles.
    He is as dumb as he's made out to be, his constant blunders show us that he is. You chalk it up to comedy or plot importance, but the fact of the matter is that is his character. You are giving him credit he doesn't deserve. We can't say Sasuke isn't emotionally unstable because he's usually smart, he's also prone to being highly emotional which lead him not us rationality and logic. Naruto is the same way with his stupidity.
    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I agree, but he could be much smarter, if not better. The difference between Sasuke and Naruto is that Sasuke had someone when he was a kid, Naruto's never had anyone. Sasuke wanted to be the best because he wanted to be like or better than his brother while Naruto just wanted attention in any way possible.
    That's BS. Naruto did have people, he had Sarturobi and Irkua. Sasuke had everyone stripped from him at 5 years old and then isolated himself and get growing without any significant contact.

    While enviornmental factors play a part, Naruto is the way he is because of nature. You can't deny that. He inherited certain traits from his mother, and he himself is an imbecile. People have natural dispositions, no amount of outside forces can change this sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Doubt it, since Lee who he is because of his ambition to be the best taijutsu fighter. But it's kinda different from Naruto. Same with Orochimaru - maybe he'd still be as powerful if he never lost his parents.

    I think his toughness would suffer, but not combat ability. He'd be much smarter and possibly trickier, though I doubt that.
    How can you claim Lee or Orochimaru wouldn't be different but Naruto then would? You can't give him the benefit of the doubt and then not give them the same.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    That's BS. Naruto did have people, he had Sarturobi and Irkua. Sasuke had everyone stripped from him at 5 years old and then isolated himself and get growing without any significant contact.
    Iruka was his school teacher only for a couple years of his life, Sarutobi had his own grand/children to take care off as well as being the Hokage. I can't see him acting as anything more than his guardian in some serious situations. And was still brandmarked and shunned by the big majority of kids and adults alike.

    I always wondered who nurtured the child Naruto though.
    Last edited by Schabrak; March 31, 2013 at 01:17 PM.
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Iruka was his school teacher only for a couple years of his life, Sarutobi had his own grand/children to take care off as well as being the Hokage. I can't see him acting as anything more than his guardian in some serious situations. And was still brandmarked and shunned by the big majority of kids and adults alike.

    I always wondered who nurtured the child Naruto though.
    I've always assumed he was probably in an orphanage until he was around 10 at which point he was given his apartment and told to take care of himself.

    My point was though he wasn't always alone, and that he did have positive influences and he still chose to be an ass and jerk around. He did so because that's his personality, he was never going to be a good little school boy who would sit and do his work quietly.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    The concept of genius

    Shikamaru's a genius, Kakashi's a genius, Sasuke's a genius. Genius is a word. Air is a word also. In some sentences, we use "air" to refer to the sky, in others we use air to refer to oxygen. Genius is a word like air.

    Shikamaru is a genius in the real world conception of the word, out here we call someone who is highly intelligent as well as creative a genius. In the Narutoverse conception of the word, he's no genius.

    Genius in the Narutoverse means the ability to improve at an increased rate with less effort.
    Now, there are several ways to improve at an increased rate. Have a Bijuu, have a kekkei genkai, be a hardworker, or be a true genius in that one improves at an increated rate without necessarily using any of the aforementioned methods. There may be more, but for the sake of argument these 3 are fine.

    So genius means improving faster than usual.
    What does Sharingan do? It makes one improve faster than usual. Then by definition, anyone with Sharingan is to some degree a genius (unless the owner is at base an antigenius, in which case Sharingan lifts them up to being mediocre).
    What does Tajuu Kage Bunshin do? It makes one improve faster than usual, provided it can be used for extended periods. Then by definition someone who can do this gets to be a genius.

    Why is this a funny comparison? Because when you go by the criteria, Naruto's claim to being a genius is exactly equal to Sasuke's. Yet somehow to most people, it just doesn't feel intuitively right. It doesn't feel intuitively right because Naruto's obviously no genius, yet you feel that Sasuke has to be. Hard to argue with TKB's properties though, so you have to make a concession somewhere. Either Sasuke's no genius or Naruto's by definition a genius. I wouldn't call Naruto a genius just for having some loophole jutsu to improve faster. So I'm left with one last option, Sasuke's no genius.

    What evidence exists in support of this, other than some rethorical conceptual argumentation? Graduation age, hardworker mentality, struggling at tree climbing training, Sharingan dependant growth so far as Shishi Rendan, attaining Lee's speed, copying Chidori. Not to mention the fact that Oro wants Sasuke's genius body, not his genius mind. Let's say Sasuke copies Oro's jutsu and uses it on some random body. Without the Uchiha body, would Sasuke still be considered genius?

    If you are fine with bodies being inherently genius isolated from the mind that is in it, we're on the same page, you're not the target audience. If you disagree because you think Sasuke's genius exists separate from his heritage, you're in trouble.

    ps- same goes for Neji and Kimimaro. One can be defined genius in that one has inherited one's clans special ability to a greater degree.

    oh and I know there's another thread with the same name, but it sucks.
    Last edited by Xrayz0r; May 21, 2013 at 07:27 AM.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of genius

    Sasuke was a genius even before he awakend his sharingan. Well he had it awakened but he had no bloody clue lol. So to answer your question:

    Quote Quote:
    Without the Uchiha body, would Sasuke still be considered genius?
    Well yes.

  6. #891
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member flow like's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of genius

    i think no. uchiha depend on the eye

    ---------- Post added at 04:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Sasuke was a genius even before he awakend his sharingan. Well he had it awakened but he had no bloody clue lol. So to answer your question:



    Well yes.
    sasuke called genius 90% because sasuke last uchiha alive

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of genius

    How about the fact that something like this or this would never happen to any of those people who have been labeled geniuses except of course Lee (which was nothing else then Gai's ridiculous motivating thumbs up jabbering).

    Being a genius in Narutoverse was never about pure learning and progressing speed by using loophole's, its about the persons ability to process and deduce information (aka using your brain). Being a fast learner is a simple accompanying effect of the afore mentioned trait.

    Besides:

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...nius-in-NARUTO

    There's a freakin sticky about the same damn thing in this section... and it already has heaps of pages.
    Last edited by LnDRash; May 21, 2013 at 06:05 AM.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

    Quote Originally Posted by syx View Post
    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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    Re: The concept of genius

    @flow like

    Sasuke was the first in his class in school. He was also able to do a Katon that no genin should be able to do. He was also able to make Kakashi stop reading his book in that bell training. He was a genius from an elite clan even before he got the sharingan in his fight with Haku at that bridge.

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    Re: The concept of genius

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    How about the fact that something like this or this would never happen to any of those people who have been labeled geniuses except of course Lee (which was nothing else then Gai's ridiculous motivating thumbs up jabbering).

    Being a genius in Narutoverse was never about pure learning and progressing speed by using loophole's, its about the persons ability to process and deduce information (aka using your brain). Being a fast learner is a simple accompanying effect of the afore mentioned trait.
    I would have held that position if Shikamaru wasn't there to destroy it. He is the single greatest example of being a genius intelligence wise, yet being no genius whatsoever when it comes to improvement.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member LnDRash's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of genius

    Because he's lazy and simply doesn't really give a fuck?

    You'd be surprised how many gifted people there are who don't bother doing anything more then they have to, rarely tapping into their potential and instead being satisfied living a completely unambitious, ordinary live.

    Shikamaru is exactly like that.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-124-5/n...apter-119.html
    Last edited by LnDRash; May 21, 2013 at 06:22 AM.
    Click here for what I consider the definition of "simply brilliant"

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    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member flow like's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of genius

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @flow like

    Sasuke was the first in his class in school. He was also able to do a Katon that no genin should be able to do. He was also able to make Kakashi stop reading his book in that bell training. He was a genius from an elite clan even before he got the sharingan in his fight with Haku at that bridge.
    sakura been first in class in smart aspect. for example naruto learn jounin/kage level jutsu like academy student and rasengan like genin. naruto almost defeat kakashi in first bell test with smart. naruto show more strategy and tactic in his fight than sasuke

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: The concept of genius

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @flow like

    Sasuke was the first in his class in school. He was also able to do a Katon that no genin should be able to do. He was also able to make Kakashi stop reading his book in that bell training. He was a genius from an elite clan even before he got the sharingan in his fight with Haku at that bridge.
    A genin shouldn't be capable of katon because of chakra restraints. Read the chapter. What does chakra consist of? Physical energy (from stamina, something that is inherited) and spiritual energy (gained from training and experience). Little to do with having a genius *mind*.
    If the ability to do elemental manipulation was the criterion here, Ino, Chouji and Shikamaru would be geniuses also for having mastered yin yang manipulation.

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  17. #898
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of genius

    Quote Originally Posted by flow like View Post
    sakura been first in class in smart aspect. for example naruto learn jounin/kage level jutsu like academy student and rasengan like genin. naruto almost defeat kakashi in first bell test with smart. naruto show more strategy and tactic in his fight than sasuke
    Sasuke's grades where first:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/003/12

    Naruto learned SC true. Rasengan he found a way around the hard part with his clones. Problem was with perfecting Rasengan. That is what Tsunade found it imposible to believe. With no last step Rasengan was no good :P

    In the bell test Kakashi completly outplayed Naruto. Yes Naruto used a smart tactic but he got COMPLETLY outplayed.

    Now read what Kakashi has to say about Sasuke:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/007/3

    Sasuke set a trap like Naruto:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/007/4

    The only one to fight with Kakashi in melee and hold his own and the only one to almost get a bell:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/007/7

    Kakashi stating "what a guy":
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/007/8

    Sasuke was clearly above the others going by what Kakashi states:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/007/12


    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    A genin shouldn't be capable of katon because of chakra restraints. Read the chapter. What does chakra consist of? Physical energy (from stamina, something that is inherited) and spiritual energy (gained from training and experience). Little to do with having a genius *mind*.
    If the ability to do elemental manipulation was the criterion here, Ino, Chouji and Shikamaru would be geniuses also for having mastered yin yang manipulation.
    I am fully aware WHY he could do that... What you are missing is how he got said ability. He trained his arse off and got there... Was it not your entire premise and argument about training and mastering jutsus with no sharingan?
    The stamina part comes from training dude. Training a lot = greater stamina.
    Then he was able to actualy learn said justsu. Something that was a great feat going by Itachi's and Sasuke's father.

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Because he's lazy and simply doesn't really give a fuck?

    You'd be surprised how many gifted people there are who don't bother doing anything more then they have to, rarely tapping into their potential and instead being satisfied living a completely unambitious, ordinary live.

    Shikamaru is exactly like that.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/93-124-5/n...apter-119.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    I would have held that position if Shikamaru wasn't there to destroy it. He is the single greatest example of being a genius intelligence wise, yet being no genius whatsoever when it comes to improvement.
    This is actualy MANGA FACT... Evidence:

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/107/12

    Shikamaru had Naruto level grades because he did not do shit. This point is invalidated by the manga.
    Last edited by xXan; May 21, 2013 at 06:45 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member flow like's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of genius

    "xXan what's the difference? kakashi totally overplayed all team... for me genius=feats/ages... example: naruto and sasuke been small genius than minato and itachi in 10/12 years, but sasuke and naruto been bigger genius than itachi and minato in 15/17 years
    Last edited by flow like; May 21, 2013 at 07:05 AM.

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    Re: The concept of genius

    @flow like

    Point was that Sasuke outperformed Naruto and Kakashi clearly unerlined Sasuke's performance. Sasuke was a genius even before the sharingan. That was the point. Naruto was the hardworking underdog caracter with the guts to never give up.

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