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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
A God of Shinobi, not God. You still have to show me where in those pages was he claimed as an omnipotent god or where was he said to be the strongest. By the way, the page with Kabuto doesn't count, since Kabuto said "the strongest Kage" not the "strongest period."Quote:
Nope, it's not correction. The three, mentions jackshit about his strength in his prime. Whether it was a decade, or three years ago, I don't care. It's not now, so it doesn't matter. Please, think about the bold part once again. And as I said above, Kabuto's link doesn't really count.Quote:
I was actually talking about the "whether I asked for your opinion on the Hokage's strength" question.Quote:
The Karasu Bunshin description outright says that it costs LESS chakra than the normal one. Thus, the normal one does have a set cost which seems to be great seeing that another Jutsu had to be developed in order not to use it.Quote:
And again, don't talk about Reading Comprehension. Anyway, it's chapter 316 page 11. How? Like thisQuote:
You basically just stated that you used a Tajuu Kage Bunshin example to talk about a normal Kage Bunshin. And again, for the one hundredth time, that's not hypocrisy. That's why I tell you that you're in no position to talk about R.C. I've long since won this argument, regardless of what you say. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm talking about what you originally tried to do. And that's not distinguishing the two Jutsus until it was convenient.
Perhaps your Reading Comprehension failed you yet again, or maybe this is one of your attempts at acting stupid. The page you showed, doesn't say anything about a major drain "always." If he couldn't stop the drain, Sakura wouldn't tell him "to think before using." If you can't stop something, there's no point in telling you to think before using it. And if it was always in use, she wouldn't say that either. You've nothing but a steaming pile of shit on your side, not evidence. And again, basic knowledge is that it drains chakra as long as it's open. Still fucking waiting for a link that says the Sharingan drains chakra even when it's closed. Though knowing you, you would probably just keep running until you bore me to death.Quote:
Last edited by KingOfNight; October 09, 2013 at 12:05 PM.
seeing as the entire training was stated to use Tajuu Kage Bunshin multiple times before.
No, I didn't. I was talking about Kage Bunshin, which I literally state right there, right after literally telling you that Kakashi didn't use Tajuu Kage Bunshin. I don't know how clearer I can make this. It is hypocrisy, because you have yet to explain how characters like Kakashi or Itachi can use Kage Bunshin if your claim is true. Until you actually do, there is no "winning". You can't have it both ways. And that's another lie. Show me where I ever mentioned or used Tajuu Kage Bunshin or used an example where the character actually said that.
, not "open" as you have tried to claim. And I'm waiting for the link that says that it doesn't drain Kakashi when "closed", something apparently only you have read. Or even show a link to this "only open" comment you claim exist.
Definitely not what you said. You said that he was praised as "the strongest." That's your full claim. And no, God of Shinobi and omnipotent God are two utterly different things.Quote:
It was an example of your delusion.Quote:
The fact that it costs less means it has a set cost. Otherwise, it's impossible to say it costs less. That's like me saying "I have less money than every coin ever dropped by a mistake in history" , and it's like what the fuck. That makes no sense in the least. If by your logic, it has no set cost, then it can be as low as humanly possible within the Narutoverse. As such, there's no fucking way Karasu Bunshin can cost less. Please, explain these different functions. I want you to tell me what these different abilities and usages are.Quote:
Please, a mistranslation you say. Your link is unnecessary. I know he's using Tajuu Kage Bunshin, the point here is that he almost always ignores the "Tajuu" part. Even in the Wiki it states that he doesn't distinguish the two and ignores the "Tajuu" part.Quote:
It doesn't change the original point. We were talking about Kage Bunshin, you brought Kakashi as an example where he was clearly using "Tajuu Kage Bunshin." Again, it's not hypocrisy, because I didn't claim anything. How many times will you have me repeat myself? I still didn't take my claim about Kakashi using a different version. The bigger picture is that Kakashi used a Tajuu Kage Bunshin. You knowing that, used it as an example of a Kage Bunshin.
So, yeah. I'm guessing your just gonna keep running away? What do you mean Sakura knows about it after seeing it once? What panel evidence? Are we gonna play this again? Where in that page was it said to drain chakra "always"? You still haven't said how can he "think before using" something that's always in use. You want a link? It's actually in that very page you gave me. He can't think before using something that's always in use. That's a proof that it stops working when he covers his eyes. Still waiting for that link...Quote:
Last edited by KingOfNight; October 12, 2013 at 04:44 AM.
How can the creation of the [complex] clone not cost any chakra? It makes zero sense. You are free to convince me otherwise, but you will have a hard time finding a single panel supporting you.
It doesn't cost the rest of the remaining 50%, it's still theirs, just stored within a clone. Otherwise Naruto and others using the technique would consciously discard half+ of their chakra by using the jutsu, which is not true as we all know.
Last edited by Rikudou King; October 12, 2013 at 06:30 PM.
As already pointed out, Proclaim means to announce publicly, to indicate conspicuously, or to praise. And there are more kinds of gods then the omnipotent one, especially in Eastern religions. Heck, in-series, the Juubi has been remarked as a god.Quote:
The function of the Shadow Clone is to observe and experience, then return said observations and experiences back to the original user. It's the only clone technique that has been stated capable of this. The Crow Clone is a combo clone/summoning that allows the clone to confuse and attack even after it has been destroyed.
There is literally nothing suggesting that Kakashi wasn't using Kage Bunshin except you. Not only does it literally have him stating Kage Bunshin right there, but the number of clones doesn't even fit with the usage of Tajuu Kage Bunshin. There is absolutely no evidence to support such a claim. There isn't even any examples to show Kakashi calling out the name of a technique and then using another like with Naruto, and as pointed out, Tajuu Kage Bunshin involves creating 100+ clones and Kakashi only created a dozen. So what exactly is there showing that this wasn't Kage Bunshin as was claimed? And this argument started over your claim that Kage Bunshin was a tremendous cost, which clearly can't be true unless you can explain how characters with noted low chakra are able to use it. Trying to claim that Kakashi can use Tajuu Kage Bunshin only sinks that claim even more. Seriously, there would be no point in me arguing against that since it would mean that you were wrong about the cost regardless. I would have gained more from accepting it then correcting it.
The strain was never stated to be because it was used, it's because he's not a full-bloodied Uchiha. Fact remains that it has been made clear that the Sharingan drains whenever active. Whether it is covered or not does not change that it's always active and thus always draining. Covering it would not deactivate it and thus would not stop the drain.
The cost is a part of the technique, and seemingly isn't deducted til afterward from the clones themselves when they pop, with the remaining chakra apparently returning to the user. At least, that was the way it worked when Naruto fought Pain. So like I said, the division is the cost. Now if you can show this is wrong, then fine, I'll accept that.
Still doesn't explain where he was said to be the strongest. If you said that he was praised in his elderly state, we'd have been long since done. But you had to add the strongest. Gonna admit your mistake? That's exactly the point. It doesn't mean he's an omnipotent one.Quote:
You honestly kept arguing whether I asked you or not, when I clearly told you I DIDN'T. What reason do you have to believe I did when I told you otherwise? And you kept arguing further, as if you were right. That's being deluded.Quote:
And so if I had two or three or even 50 bucks. I'd still have less money than every coin ever dropped. It doesn't specify anything at all. Thus, impossible to tell how much I have. The examples you give are as horrible as usual. When you say 2 is less than 3, you make it known that 2 is the number you have in mind. Try "My favorite number is less than 50 octillion." As said, it's impossible to say it costs less if it doesn't have a set cost. Just like I said before, by your logic, it can be used with the absolute least amount of chakra humanly possible.Quote:
It doesn't attack when destroyed. And the Databook implies it functions the same with less chakra. If it doesn't observe and experience, Itachi wouldn't have sent it to talk to Sasuke.Quote:
There's no fucking way I'm gonna keep looking up every time he uses Kage Bunshin. Look it up yourself. How does it not fit my claim? It's actually perfectly fitting my claim. The Wiki states that unlike the normal Kage Bunshin which creates a handful, it creates hundreds.Quote:
About the Kakashi thing, I haven't really read what you typed because it's bothersome. But doesn't the bold part means that you admit he used Tajuu Kage Bunshin? Either way, I don't care about the Kakashi thing anymore. A waste of time if nothing else.
Why not, her words are better trusted than yours. So...wait a minute. You're using Sakura's statement about it being tiresome...but refuse her statement to think before using it? Careful...I'm just saying. If it doesn't matter whether he covers it or not, then why do it? Why would your so called "common knowledge" mention that he covers it because he can't deactivate it? Makes no sense. And if Sakura was wrong, he should correct her, he's her teacher after all.Quote:
Last edited by KingOfNight; October 13, 2013 at 09:26 AM.
Taijuu as in multiple, meaning ten, hundred or a thousand. So it indeed fits the example.
I'm not sure what we are talking about here. The cost for the technique, the cost for the tech per clone or an increase of chakra cost for multiple clones.
Last edited by Schabrak; October 13, 2013 at 09:08 AM.
I already knew you weren't reading everything, because you kept claiming and arguing against things I never actually said. The very fact that you acknowledge not really reading anything means you shouldn't be trying to debate about said things or talking about reading comprehension.
We're talking about the cost of the technique itself, particularly whether it cost a set amount of "tremendous" chakra to use. I pointed to Kakashi using it, along with Itachi too, to show that it can't possibly cost a large or set amount of chakra if characters noted for low stamina were capable of using it.
It doesn't specify zero. It's a possibility among many. You know I have money with me, but you don't know how much. You ask me, and I tell you "I have less than 50 octillion." It specify nothing. That's no even a matter of debate. Unless you can tell me how you will figure how much money I have when I tell you I have less money than every coin ever dropped in history. And once again, by your logic, it can be as low as humanly possible. This is the third time you ignore that. Don't blame me when I say you evade stuff.Quote:
Not really, it's just crows flying about. Can you link me any time they actually attacked? If his clone get destroyed by someone other than Sasuke, how would he know if Sasuke got the message? The all careful Itachi would just sit there and wait in sheer faith?Quote:
I have the Wiki pointing it out too. What dozen? It can't possibly be any less than a hundred. How did you figure it was only 12 clones?Quote:
EDIT: Okay, here's another one! There're plenty of more times but I'm seriously not gonna waste time looking them all up. Two should be enough.
You basically just proved what I said before. You really do need any pity victory you can get. And I will speak about your comprehension seeing that I specifically told you I don't care about that anymore which is why I didn't read it. Thanks for proving my statementQuote:
You know, this would be done a lot quicker if you would just post these "evidence" you speak of. I don't recall any evidence, don't tell me to trust you, 'cause I don't. Post the damn thing here, since you clearly have a lot of time in your hand. Nothing about the transplanted eyes says they drain chakra even when closed. Sakura's comment was never negated, by anything, at all.Quote:
Last edited by KingOfNight; October 14, 2013 at 08:46 AM.
Where exactly does it say that it has to be hundred and up? That seems to be your personal definition only.
Can't be nothing, but has to be more than a norma/water/fire/whatever clone, as it's so much more complex, having an own chakra pool, mind etc. Maybe 0,1-1% for Naruto, 5-10% for Kakashi, more for most others. It's clearly not a definted 34,634 chakra points per clone of something, that would be absurd and incompatible with the manga.
Last edited by Schabrak; October 14, 2013 at 07:45 AM.
And exactly who are these "tons" of people who could whoop Orochimaru, a guy who literally can't be killed? Hashirama? Madara? Rikudou Sennin? Juubi Obito? Itachi? Nagato? Onpoki? Naruto? Sasuke? The first four are in a whole league of their own that was already acknowledged. The next three have a literal instant win power. And Naruto and Sasuke are somewhat debatable, but would still fall within the above categories. Exactly what "regular" strong ninja can whoop Orochimaru? His two fellow Sannin's couldn't beat him when he had lost his arms.
No, Hashirama is the strongest, period, or at least was before Juubi Obito. There is no one even near his level. The closest person, Madara, was still well below his level even with the Kyuubi and that even after gaining the addition of the Rinnegan and Mokuton, he still hasn't become stronger.
the whole crow/Sharingan trick Itachi enjoys. Who else would have been in a position to destroy his clone? The only person the clone would fight was Sasuke. In addition, he also had Kisame relay instructions too to Sasuke.
Two is hardly enough when you argue that Naruto has done it more times then not. It's on you to prove that the majority of the times have been that way.
Is it more complex? The only clones that have been shown not able to use any techniques have been Gaara's sand clones and the haze clones used by those Ame ninjas in the Forest of Death. Possibly Shino's insect clone too. The other type of clones, like the Wood clone and Lightning clone, have shown their own mind and ability to use techniques. The only difference between them and Shadow Clones are what they're made out of and the fact that Shadow Clones are still connected to the user to pass back memories and chakra. I mentioned before that there is no set numeric values in the series, that the closest we have been given is a percentages numeric value to some techniques like the Chidori and FRS.
Are you serious RK? You're just gonna drop a discussion for 1 week and then just come back? I lost my enthusiasm. We'll agree to disagree.
I mean, Rinnegan, Kamui, and good skin that could tank rasengan, and he's only just holding his own against them.