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Thread: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    I just have 3 on the list. (I don't think we need to include Naruto in the list due to the manga named after him)

    1. Orochimaru, yeah he's a psycho, but in the end he figured out everything. Senin Chakra? Check. Regeneration? Check. Body Switch? Check. DNA manipulation? Leaf's village secret? Madara's secret? 1st hokage cell manipulation? Animal transformation? Immortal jutsu? The ultimate secret of the manga? Still alive after all the crap he's been through? All checked.

    2. Minato. The hell? Nobody actually beat him. He sacrificed himself. Obito didn't even put a dent on him. I still believe he's the greatest ninja fighter ever due to his cheesy flash jutsu. Even Naruto was never shown to use this jutsu after showing it off one time. Just think about it. Madara on top of kyubi? Flash, Rasengan, dead. Obito? Multiply, again and again and again, flash, Rasengan, Dead.
    Oh btw, to anyone who still doubts his intelligence, it took him 3 moves to figure out how to counter obito and beat him, while it takes Kakashi, Naruto and guy to scratch Obito.

    3. Itachi. Again, did anybody ever actually beat him? He was dying when he met Sasuke. Like Minato, his end was his choice. What was his accomplishments? How about an entire clan annihilation? Not to mention gaining back his control of his body during his zombie jutsu.
    And yeah, nobody beat him the second time.

    Yeah shikamaru is a genius and I still think he's a better candidate for hokage, but we all know Naruto is going to be the next hokage. (this was prophesied by Naruto, even as a Genin, he's still going to be a hokage.)

    What do you think?

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by m4ng4fr34k View Post
    I just have 3 on the list. (I don't think we need to include Naruto in the list due to the manga named after him)

    1. Orochimaru, yeah he's a psycho, but in the end he figured out everything. Senin Chakra? Check. Regeneration? Check. Body Switch? Check. DNA manipulation? Leaf's village secret? Madara's secret? 1st hokage cell manipulation? Animal transformation? Immortal jutsu? The ultimate secret of the manga? Still alive after all the crap he's been through? All checked.

    2. Minato. The hell? Nobody actually beat him. He sacrificed himself. Obito didn't even put a dent on him. I still believe he's the greatest ninja fighter ever due to his cheesy flash jutsu. Even Naruto was never shown to use this jutsu after showing it off one time. Just think about it. Madara on top of kyubi? Flash, Rasengan, dead. Obito? Multiply, again and again and again, flash, Rasengan, Dead.
    Oh btw, to anyone who still doubts his intelligence, it took him 3 moves to figure out how to counter obito and beat him, while it takes Kakashi, Naruto and guy to scratch Obito.

    3. Itachi. Again, did anybody ever actually beat him? He was dying when he met Sasuke. Like Minato, his end was his choice. What was his accomplishments? How about an entire clan annihilation? Not to mention gaining back his control of his body during his zombie jutsu.
    And yeah, nobody beat him the second time.

    Yeah shikamaru is a genius and I still think he's a better candidate for hokage, but we all know Naruto is going to be the next hokage. (this was prophesied by Naruto, even as a Genin, he's still going to be a hokage.)

    What do you think?
    It's a good list although there are certainly others who could be listed. If anything I would think that these three, by the totality of what they did are the greatest geniuses the manga has shown.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by m4ng4fr34k View Post
    I just have 3 on the list. (I don't think we need to include Naruto in the list due to the manga named after him)

    1. Orochimaru, yeah he's a psycho, but in the end he figured out everything. Senin Chakra? Check. Regeneration? Check. Body Switch? Check. DNA manipulation? Leaf's village secret? Madara's secret? 1st hokage cell manipulation? Animal transformation? Immortal jutsu? The ultimate secret of the manga? Still alive after all the crap he's been through? All checked.

    2. Minato. The hell? Nobody actually beat him. He sacrificed himself. Obito didn't even put a dent on him. I still believe he's the greatest ninja fighter ever due to his cheesy flash jutsu. Even Naruto was never shown to use this jutsu after showing it off one time. Just think about it. Madara on top of kyubi? Flash, Rasengan, dead. Obito? Multiply, again and again and again, flash, Rasengan, Dead.
    Oh btw, to anyone who still doubts his intelligence, it took him 3 moves to figure out how to counter obito and beat him, while it takes Kakashi, Naruto and guy to scratch Obito.

    3. Itachi. Again, did anybody ever actually beat him? He was dying when he met Sasuke. Like Minato, his end was his choice. What was his accomplishments? How about an entire clan annihilation? Not to mention gaining back his control of his body during his zombie jutsu.
    And yeah, nobody beat him the second time.

    Yeah shikamaru is a genius and I still think he's a better candidate for hokage, but we all know Naruto is going to be the next hokage. (this was prophesied by Naruto, even as a Genin, he's still going to be a hokage.)

    What do you think?
    Can't argue with any. What about other characters identified as genius in the story? Neji was specifically identified as a genius. Shisui was also identified as a genius, though in all fairness he never appeared in the present timeline of the story. Kakashi was identified as a genius, and child prodigy. Sasuke too, he was identified as a genius as soon as he was introduced. Can't exclude him.

    ---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 PM ----------

    Shikamaru most definitely was not a genius, not in the same sense as Itachi, Minato, or Orochimaru. He is a brilliant tactician, able to use his natural smarts to compensate for his mediocre ninja skills. He was never supposed to be a great ninja, doesn't have a lot of chakra, and few techniques. He uses his intelligence to maximize what he has.
    Last edited by Kaiten; January 29, 2013 at 11:43 PM.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    You cannot call Kakashi genius if he's astounded by Naruto's abilities (the fox was as well - claiming Naruto had even SURPASSED Minato).

    It's like people saying Socrates was the wisest man ever, and then disbelieving him when he said something like him not knowing much of anything...okay, so you're the wiser?

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by SageNaruto View Post
    You cannot call Kakashi genius if he's astounded by Naruto's abilities (the fox was as well - claiming Naruto had even SURPASSED Minato).

    It's like people saying Socrates was the wisest man ever, and then disbelieving him when he said something like him not knowing much of anything...okay, so you're the wiser?
    I didn't call him a genius. Kishi did. He was a prodigy who graduated the academy at five, a chunin at six, and jounin at thirteen. Don't like it, take it up with the author. Kakashi's latent ability is canon, stated explicitly in the manga, many times over.
    Last edited by Kaiten; January 30, 2013 at 12:46 AM.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by m4ng4fr34k View Post
    I just have 3 on the list. (I don't think we need to include Naruto in the list due to the manga named after him)

    1. Orochimaru, yeah he's a psycho, but in the end he figured out everything. Senin Chakra? Check. Regeneration? Check. Body Switch? Check. DNA manipulation? Leaf's village secret? Madara's secret? 1st hokage cell manipulation? Animal transformation? Immortal jutsu? The ultimate secret of the manga? Still alive after all the crap he's been through? All checked.

    2. Minato. The hell? Nobody actually beat him. He sacrificed himself. Obito didn't even put a dent on him. I still believe he's the greatest ninja fighter ever due to his cheesy flash jutsu. Even Naruto was never shown to use this jutsu after showing it off one time. Just think about it. Madara on top of kyubi? Flash, Rasengan, dead. Obito? Multiply, again and again and again, flash, Rasengan, Dead.
    Oh btw, to anyone who still doubts his intelligence, it took him 3 moves to figure out how to counter obito and beat him, while it takes Kakashi, Naruto and guy to scratch Obito.

    3. Itachi. Again, did anybody ever actually beat him? He was dying when he met Sasuke. Like Minato, his end was his choice. What was his accomplishments? How about an entire clan annihilation? Not to mention gaining back his control of his body during his zombie jutsu.
    And yeah, nobody beat him the second time.

    Yeah shikamaru is a genius and I still think he's a better candidate for hokage, but we all know Naruto is going to be the next hokage. (this was prophesied by Naruto, even as a Genin, he's still going to be a hokage.)

    What do you think?
    If you listed the top 3 geniuses, then I agree wholeheartedly. I mean, They've accomplished so much and have been praised beyond anything, although I think Kakashi should be on any list of geniuses as well. All four have been brilliant throughout their appearance, particularly Itachi, Minato, Kakashi, and Sasuke. Sasuke on his own learned how to manipulate the shape of his chidori that Kakashi invented without any kidn of aid. Minato created three jutsu, although one based on bijuubomb, whose inner working he couldn't see. Itachi has always been insightful and perceptive, from understanding what he had to do to knowing stuff like Orochimaru popping out of Sasuke.

    Though, Kabuto has praised Itachi and put him on a higher pedestal. You also see Kakashi being well known and respected, even among the kage of other villages. Whenever Kakashi or Itachi was mentioned, it usually had some kind of praise with it.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by SageNaruto View Post
    You cannot call Kakashi genius if he's astounded by Naruto's abilities (the fox was as well - claiming Naruto had even SURPASSED Minato).

    It's like people saying Socrates was the wisest man ever, and then disbelieving him when he said something like him not knowing much of anything...okay, so you're the wiser?
    Surpassing one's abilities and becoming stronger than them does not denote you as a genius though. Obito's use of Kamui exceeds the level at which Kakashi can use it, however Obito is no genius.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Kakashi also invented a jutsu, chidori.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by SageNaruto View Post
    You cannot call Kakashi genius if he's astounded by Naruto's abilities (the fox was as well - claiming Naruto had even SURPASSED Minato).

    It's like people saying Socrates was the wisest man ever, and then disbelieving him when he said something like him not knowing much of anything...okay, so you're the wiser?
    how does that negate Kakashi being a genius? Naruto has gotten stronger and was fast at coming up with strategies, using unorthodox ways to get his objectives. Kakashi saying Naruto surpassed Minato is his own opinion, not fact.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiten View Post
    Shikamaru most definitely was not a genius, not in the same sense as Itachi, Minato, or Orochimaru. He is a brilliant tactician, able to use his natural smarts to compensate for his mediocre ninja skills. He was never supposed to be a great ninja, doesn't have a lot of chakra, and few techniques. He uses his intelligence to maximize what he has.
    It could be argued that his genius surpasses all of theirs though as well. His intellectual capabilities are only surpassed by those of his father (and the likely won't last long). HIs IQ exceeds 200 and he's capable of thinking of dozens of strategies for any given situation in seconds, hundreds if he's given 5 minutes (according to Asuma if I recall correctly).
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Surpassing one's abilities and becoming stronger than them does not denote you as a genius though. Obito's use of Kamui exceeds the level at which Kakashi can use it, however Obito is no genius.
    Precisely. Naruto surpassed Minato by working hard, not with genius. Proclaiming Naruto a genius basically invalids Part I. Kishi basically ran the point into the ground: Naruto was not a genius, nothing came naturally, but with hard work and practice he gradually learned everything he needed.

    Obito is the same, in a sense. He clearly was not a genius, and not a particularly talented ninja. He and Kakashi are the mirror image of Naruto and Sasuke. Kakashi the genius was able to learn to accept others, while Obito never accepted his own shortcomings, and has been overwhelmed by hate.

    ---------- Post added at 12:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    It could be argued that his genius surpasses all of theirs though as well. His intellectual capabilities are only surpassed by those of his father (and the likely won't last long). HIs IQ exceeds 200 and he's capable of thinking of dozens of strategies for any given situation in seconds, hundreds if he's given 5 minutes (according to Asuma if I recall correctly).
    In many ways he is a genius, if you're applying his talents to real life. I meant in the context of the story though. He's more like Naruto in the sense that he is not a naturally gifted ninja, and has to compensate with other qualities. Naruto is stubborn, hard headed, and endlessly optimistic. No matter the obstacle he will never give up. Shikamaru has his intelligence, he will always be able to out think his opponent, no matter their difference in skill or chakra. Within the context of the story he compares better to Naruto and Rock Lee then to Neji, Kakashi, or Sasuke.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by m4ng4fr34k View Post
    I just have 3 on the list. (I don't think we need to include Naruto in the list due to the manga named after him)

    1. Orochimaru, yeah he's a psycho, but in the end he figured out everything. Senin Chakra? Check. Regeneration? Check. Body Switch? Check. DNA manipulation? Leaf's village secret? Madara's secret? 1st hokage cell manipulation? Animal transformation? Immortal jutsu? The ultimate secret of the manga? Still alive after all the crap he's been through? All checked.

    2. Minato. The hell? Nobody actually beat him. He sacrificed himself. Obito didn't even put a dent on him. I still believe he's the greatest ninja fighter ever due to his cheesy flash jutsu. Even Naruto was never shown to use this jutsu after showing it off one time. Just think about it. Madara on top of kyubi? Flash, Rasengan, dead. Obito? Multiply, again and again and again, flash, Rasengan, Dead.
    Oh btw, to anyone who still doubts his intelligence, it took him 3 moves to figure out how to counter obito and beat him, while it takes Kakashi, Naruto and guy to scratch Obito.

    3. Itachi. Again, did anybody ever actually beat him? He was dying when he met Sasuke. Like Minato, his end was his choice. What was his accomplishments? How about an entire clan annihilation? Not to mention gaining back his control of his body during his zombie jutsu.
    And yeah, nobody beat him the second time.

    Yeah shikamaru is a genius and I still think he's a better candidate for hokage, but we all know Naruto is going to be the next hokage. (this was prophesied by Naruto, even as a Genin, he's still going to be a hokage.)

    What do you think?
    Good top three you have here. They were hailed by Kishimoto as geniuses already. Moreover, their feats definitely backed up those claims in their childhood.
    Shikamaru is a bit different from all other geniuses in a way that his IQ is off-the-charts, probably just like his father (since his father always beats him in Shougi). If we are to look from a Shinobi perspective more than a human one, the three mentioned above are superior to the likes of Shikaku and Shikamaru in a way.

    I'm sticking to my previous assessment. Lee and Naruto could be considered geniuses in different perspectives, but the one that's the most common doesn't exactly suits them to be called one.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    I'm sticking to my previous assessment. Lee and Naruto could be considered geniuses in different perspectives, but the one that's the most common doesn't exactly suits them to be called one.
    Explain I'm interested in why you believe the both of them are geniuses in different perspectives as you say.
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by BASED Shinigami View Post
    Explain I'm interested in why you believe the both of them are geniuses in different perspectives as you say.
    Lee apparently had a natural tendency to improve his taijutsu skills, since Kakashi was surprised that he was able to open up five gates at such a young age. Sure, he had to put a lot of effort to make that happen, but that's why it requires a change of perspective in the consideration.
    Same for Naruto. Both are geniuses when it comes to perseverance and dedication, but I'm not considering neither as a genius when it comes to the traditional perspective of quickly taking things up.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    I just have to bug in here to say that there's a clear distinction between being gifted and being a genius.

    Naruto is arguably a sort of genius at the moment, but the reason for his immense power is by and large due to being gifted due to circumstance. By that I mean he had the right people involved in his life. His father has ties to Jiraiya, hence him becoming Naruto's master, hence the toads even bothering with Naruto, hence Naruto ultimately receiving Sage Mode. Naruto was given the Kyuubi, and given tools to help him conquer the Kyuubi in the form of massive chakra pool (Uzumaki lineage), and two fail-safes. You cannot really say that Kakashi is inferior to Naruto because the latter is by far stronger, when circumstances are vastly different for the two. Of course I'm not questioning Naruto's accomplishments, and his power ups have come at a cost (imagine if he had his parents teach him from a young age... What a monster he'd be).

    Kakashi has a rather mediocre chakra pool due to his lineage. However he is an indisputable genius. Every person has a sort of "limit", and Kakashi is among the top fighters in the world. A LOT in Naruto has to do with the chakra you have as utility in a fight, and Kakashi scored poorly there due to circumstances outside of his control. He's a genius for becoming what he has become with what he has, Sharingan or not. This is made very clear when Kakashi as a fresh jounin kid was able to fight more or less on par with adult, war experienced jounin from enemy villages. Had he not received the Sharingan, he surely would have developed further in another direction, and still been among the top fighters in the world.
    Last edited by 3c; January 30, 2013 at 11:27 AM.


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