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Thread: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

  1. #976
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I forgot what they said, but wasn't Sharingan the main reason Sasuke was able to replicate Lee's speed by copying his taijutsu?
    No the Sharigan can't replicate speed, don't you know this?

    Sasuke was able to copy Lee's taijutsu, but because he lacked the speed he could not perform it correctly.

    When fighting Yoroi in the prelims Sasuke couldn't use ninjutsu because of the cursed seal screwing with him, he couldn't even activate his Sharigan he was in so much pain. So he had to resort to just taijutsu in order to fight.

    So, mid fight he tried to replicate Lee's Frontal Lotus, but since he lacked the speed to perform it correctly, he altered it and created his "Lion Combo" to finish Yoroi off.

    A month later while fighting Gaara, Sasuke replicated the speed Lee had because he trained for it. Gaara was seeing double now of Lee and Sasuke because Sasuke perfected Lee's fighting style.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Hard work never comes easy, thats another oxymoron. If it was easy it wouldn't be called hard work lol.
    Disappointed dude. I thought you might have more. Not that I mean that a possible refutation existed, I just thought you'd have more than this.

    Passing out from training and being injured has nothing do to with it, doesn't even touch it. It's the physical result of working hard. Hard work coming easy means the ability to ignore the psychological obstacles that exist to keep people from exerting themselves. After all it's more comfortable to chill than it is to train. In this sense, pre timeskip Shikamaru is a hardworker (as opposed to genius) of working hard. He'd rather give in to the desire to chill. Lee has an easier time ignoring this desire, in fact he prolly replaced it with a desire to work even harder, hence genius of hard work.

    Quit the argument and swallow the pride. This one's a no brainer.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Gai said " lee has almost no skill in Ninjutsu and Genjutsu ". Nothing about his chakra being messed up, lee is basically to dumb to learn anything beside taijutsu... That's not a genius.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    Disappointed dude. I thought you might have more. Not that I mean that a possible refutation existed, I just thought you'd have more than this.

    Passing out from training and being injured has nothing do to with it, doesn't even touch it. It's the physical result of working hard. Hard work coming easy means the ability to ignore the psychological obstacles that exist to keep people from exerting themselves. After all it's more comfortable to chill than it is to train. In this sense, pre timeskip Shikamaru is a hardworker (as opposed to genius) of working hard. He'd rather give in to the desire to chill. Lee has an easier time ignoring this desire, in fact he prolly replaced it with a desire to work even harder, hence genius of hard work.

    Quit the argument and swallow the pride. This one's a no brainer.
    If what you are saying is the definition, they would have explained it as such, but they didn't. If you can pull up the actual manga scans proving your point I'll "swallow my pride" I guess. Any idiot can work hard (just look at Naruto) it doesn't make one a genius just because they have the will power to train and motivate themselves.

    Gai works just as hard and invented the training methods that Lee uses. Not once has Kaskashi, his rival and one of his best friends ever praised him for being a genius. Nor has anyone else. His nickname is the "Green Beast of Konoha" because he's a fucking beast, he works like one and fights like one, much like Lee.

    The difference here isn't just that Lee worked hard and passed all those psychological barriers, because again that's not something unique to him (his style of training is, but hardly the working hard and ignoring the psychological and physical obstacles). Naruto and Sasuke have proven to work hard, pushing themselves to the point of exhaustion. Madara and Hashirama fought until they could barely stand at the VOTE.

    What Lee did was achieve something that only a genius should have been able to do. That is why they called him a genius of hard work, because he isn't a genius, and used hard work to achieve something someone his age shouldn't have been able to do. They were astounded by his story, a boy who couldn't mold chakra, yet worked so hard he learned to open some of the 8 gates.

    Sasuke showed us a that a genius could attain Lee's speed in a month. Lee was in awe of this and said to himself "So this is what it means to be a genius". He saw that he had to work years to get a result that Sasuke gained in a month.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Actually if you look back, all I commented on was the suggestion that genius of hard work is an oxymoron, which it's not. If genius means "things coming easy", and the thing in question is hard work, you get "hard work comes easy". This is no oxymoron either, because hard work coming easy simply means that it takes less mental effort to work hard. The crucial distinction is mental/physical, obviously if I would have said that it takes less physical effort to work hard, that would have been an oxymoron.

    I think based on your last post, you've missed the part of my first post where I said that being a genius of hard work doesn't make one a genius. If you think that that's what I'm saying, I'm not. Lee is no genius. But he can be a genius of hard work without it being an oxymoron.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    Gai said " lee has almost no skill in Ninjutsu and Genjutsu ". Nothing about his chakra being messed up, lee is basically to dumb to learn anything beside taijutsu... That's not a genius.
    It was also mentioned that it's not that he doesn't want to use it, but he can't. He's still smart enough to figure out Sharingan's weakness though. How many others have done the same, other than Gai?

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Sharingan don't have a weakness, it's the person that's in control of the Sharingan that has the weakness. Lee has been know to be one of the less intellegent shinobi in the manga.

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    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    It's still Sharingan's weakness as it depends on its user's speed/reflexes.

    Where was Lee known to be one of the lesser intelligents?

  9. #984
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It's still Sharingan's weakness as it depends on its user's speed/reflexes.
    That's incorrect. The Sharingan's prediction ability is still the same, whether the user is slow as Choji or fast as Ee. It's not like the Sharingan gets worse, because of the users body. That would be a weakness, which is not the case here.

    Sasuke's weakness was his speed.
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It's still Sharingan's weakness as it depends on its user's speed/reflexes.

    Where was Lee known to be one of the lesser intelligents?
    the user is responsible for speed and reflexes, the Sharingan doesn't change... It's the user.
    Lee was made a joke of cause he wasn't smart enough to figure out the sound ninja abilites, or how Kimmiaro Kekki Genkai work.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ninja_Pirate's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    the user is responsible for speed and reflexes, the Sharingan doesn't change... It's the user.
    Lee was made a joke of cause he wasn't smart enough to figure out the sound ninja abilites, or how Kimmiaro Kekki Genkai work.
    Was he made a joke during the fight with kimmimaro … Kimmimaro didn't show him enough for him to able to figure that out…

    It is same rock lee who suggested the winning method during their fight with their own selves when sakura was fighting Sasori…

    As for his genius being at hard work thing … Yes , it was said initially by Gai to him in chapter 84 titled : THE GENIUS OF HARD WORK …. So that he doesn't lose hope… But he achieved no one else did … There are lot of normal people around who doesn't have talent in ninjutsu and genjutsu but no one dared trying to be a ninja … and without the talent in ninjutsu and genjutsu he became a ninja , who can beat up a regular ninja with talent in ninjutsu any day … just by hard work ..

    Gai said that initially to motivate him… But kakashi accepted it…. That he can indeed be termed as the genius of hard work … no doubt he gave hard time to gaara just with taijutsu … And manga never twist dictionary meanings … lol … Kishi is not making his own dictionary for sure where he is changing the meaning of the words …that argument was funny ..

    Having no talent in something doesn't mean a person is dumb … THAT IS A DUMB ARGUMENT TO MAKE>….. Naruto has no talent in genjutsu doesn't make him dumb… Sasuke has no talent in wind jutsu and that doesn't make him dumb as well… And there are lot of ninjutsu and genjutsu talented ninja who doesn't have talent in taijutsu .. and they are also not dumb

    As for Sasuke copying lee’s technique … he also trained to achieve that speed .. but kakashi explicitly mentioned that he cant keep that speed up for long .. he doesn't have the stamina…
    Last edited by Ninja_Pirate; May 22, 2013 at 11:56 PM.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    What is dumb is the only thing you could say about Sasuke is he has no talent for wind jutsu...rock lee has never had a strategic moment in the manga that could give him credit for being smart. In fact lee has been made out to be one of the dumbest characters in Naruto, whether is because of no talent in jutsu or just no intellect.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ninja_Pirate's Avatar
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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    What is dumb is the only thing you could say about Sasuke is he has no talent for wind jutsu...rock lee has never had a strategic moment in the manga that could give him credit for being smart. In fact lee has been made out to be one of the dumbest characters in Naruto, whether is because of no talent in jutsu or just no intellect.
    The point was, its not because he is dumb that he can't use ninjutsu or genjutsu ... there are lot of ninja s who can't use genjutsu ... or dont have affinity towards certain elements (should not have said "no " talent...agreed, my apologies on that) ,,, and also him being dumb (straight forward and over optimistic and lacks common sense) should not be the argument against him being genius at hard work ... A genius at pottery or painting might not turn out to be the smartest person or have an IQ even above average...

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Quote Quote:
    cursed mark.susanoo
    Cursed mark: Did help him in the time he had it. But now he doesnt have it. So we can say he can fight also without it. See fight against danzo & other kage for example.

    There Naruto has the Kyuubi which is a much bigger power up. He still does have it.

    Susanoo: Is a technique from the ms. Maybe a bit strange seeing him just using it but it takes much from him.

    There Naruto pulls out his kyuubi chakra cloak and has his sennin mode thing.


    In my opinion the problem is just that we see everything Naruto is doing. So it seems most of his skills aren´t out of nowhere.
    And if Sasuke shows something new everyone is just like "WTF did he get that from?!" although he had same time ( i think even more then Naruto) to train.


    Both have got some presents so it seems wrong to me to just say how poor Naruto is. He got als many things as Sasuke.


    Can´t really say who is a genius cause everybody have his thing he´s good at.
    But i wouldn´t tell somebody a genius who´s learning all day long on thing so he´s good at it.
    Last edited by Zentaria; May 23, 2013 at 05:47 AM.

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    Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

    Since when did genius equate to aptitude and competence? Nevertheless, Itachi is definitely a genius. [1]

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