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Possibly, cassaruby, but it did look like Oka was flying and dodging the big Godzilla's arms...it didn't look like he was either falling or gliding...to me it looked quite a lot like flying...
About the reward scheme's...I think the mecha IS the 7th option simply due to the fact that Oka didn't seem to know what to do with it properly, I mean...the Godzilla thing wouldn't have been able to destroy the mecha is Oka knew how to use it properly...would it?
IMO the über suit is almost certainly the 5th option or upwards...Nobu has cleared 4 times and doesn't have it (or doesn't use it, which would be fucked up) and since nobody else has the flying bike or the mecha, we can assume that the suit, bike and mecha are 5th 6th and 7th clear, respectively.
If that is the case, it's quite possible that the quote about Oka "Mankind's Finest" still applies, since the dead über italian could have just cleared for the 5th time and didn't know how to use his suit to its fullest yet, like Oka.
I still think there's something screwy about the Y-guns.
I'm going to try a different tactic: Basic math.
If one side of the rack contained 6 Y-guns and 6 rifles, the other side contained 6 X-pistols and 6 rifles, there would have been 12 rifles, 6 X-pistols and 6 Y-guns.
However, the players have used more than 6 X-pistols almost every mission, but the maximum number of Y-guns used each mission was 2 before Katou died, and 1 while he was gone.
X-pistols: Teacher, girlish-looking guy, 2 yakuza, Kei, Nishi
Y-gun: Nishi, Katou (Nishi walked over to the teacher when the ball opened, the next panel the teacher had a Y-gun, but there were still 3 guns in the rack. The teacher laid it down, and Katou had it during the hunt.)
That's 6 X-pistols, 2 Y-guns. Inconclusive.
X-pistols: Nishi, Katou, Kei, Zoku, 1 of the other thugs, Male Model, Stalker
Y-guns: Like the first mission, a Y-gun was conspicuously left lying right next to Kei, but he was so panicked about not having his suit that he didn't pick it up. Nishi evidently left his Y-gun and rifle on the floor in his hurry to leave, too. Kishimoto picked up the one that had been placed next to where Kei was sitting, after the biker thug tried to rape her
That's 7 X-pistols and 2 Y-guns. Something's starting to click.
1000 arms mission:
X-pistols: Katou, Kei, Kishimoto, male model, stalker, teacher, Sei, sniper, the 2 posers
Hmm...That's 10 X-pistols and 1 Y-gun out of 12 slots. Starting to look a little more like there's something fishy here.
Katou died during that mission. He had one of the Y-guns in his possession when he died, so if I'm right, that would only leave 1 in the room.
During the Tae hunt:
X-pistols: Kei, Kaze, Sakata, Cherry, Reika, Old Man, Inaba, raped girl, 1 of the rapists
That's 9 X-pistols and 1 Y-gun. Too many X's and not enough Y's. Again.
The Oni mission: The same. Kei, Kaze, Sakurai, Reika, Inaba, the raped girl, and 2 of the new recruits all carried X-pistols. I couldn't tell whether any of the rapists were carrying one.
That's at least 8 X-pistols. The Y-gun wasn't seen during the mission. Inaba may have dropped it early in the mission, when the vampires killed all of the rapists and raped girl.
X-pistols: Katou, Reika, Old Man, Kaze, Sakata, Cherry, Inaba, Nishi
Totals: 8 X-pistols, 1 Y-gun.
Every mission except the first one, Oku has made a point of drawing more than 6 X-pistols, even when they are just left in a holster for the entire mission. Meanwhile, he has made certain that there are only 2 Y-guns, and there was only 1 Y-gun while Katou was dead.
Gantz may be like a B western, where a 6-shooter can fire 50 rounds, but I don't think so. Oku goes to too much trouble to make things look and feel realistic for him to just forget how many X-pistols there are in the rack every single mission. It's more likely that there will be a reason why the Y-guns are so scarce.
When I read that george, what came to mind was the idea that people take their weapons home. If they take them home and the rest respawn, maybe that would account for the extra X-guns.
I went back and checked on the Onion mission and there are 3 Y-guns in use. Nishi's, Katou's and the generic guy with glasses has one.
There's definitely 6 X-guns and 6 Y-guns visible here... I can only guess that Oku made a mistake or thought to himself "Fuck it. It's my manga, they can have as many guns as I want."
Oh, I was looking through other chapters for 'evidence' when I came across this page:
Cherry's Master mentioned that he'd seen the Gantz ball before, but he couldn't remember where. I don't think that anything else came of this, but I remembered that he mentioned his body was a train wreck thanks to overusing his psychic abilities. This came as a surprise to me since I had assumed that Gantz heals all bodily wounds when he recruits his fighters. It got me thinking though, maybe his body wasn't healed. Maybe he was a Gantzer in the past and the whole body healing thing is a one-time only event. Whether this means anything or not depends on whether Cherry chooses to revive him.
Anyway, a few pages on from there I noticed something interesting. I think you'll appreciate it.
Everybody's gone, and the weapon rack is still full. Oku's pretty lazy, lol.
I checked the end of the Dino mission and it's definitely possible for the team to have taken a few of the guns home with them, since Kei started his little training club.
One explanation for the low number of Y-guns is that Oku thinks they are a pain in the ass to draw.
I just checked the room right before the Italy mission, and when Gantz opened up it was full again. Nishi was obviously carrying weapons, and so should every one of the Gantzers after Kei was cut down by Host Samurai.
Last edited by Damura; April 14, 2009 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I would not be surprised if it showed other characters with gadgets like this in the future chapters because if gantzers are exchanging information over the net, then theres a good chance that they help each other out. #blackballintheroom on efnet or something
@Damura: You missed a few things.
1. The teacher had the Y-gun in that panel. BUT he laid it down and picked up an X-pistol 2 pages later.
He left it on the floor when he transferred; Oku made a point of drawing it on the floor every time after he laid it down. He took the X-pistol with him on the mission. Katou evidently picked up the Y-gun before he transferred.
The reason why the rack is full is that NOBODY TOOK A WEAPON that time!!!
Kei was unconscious, and Izumi didn't tell anybody to take a suit or gun. So none of them did. Izumi himself took a sword. That's why the entire rack was full that time. Laziness had nothing to do with it. If any of them had been gone, it would have been carelessness. The fact that the rack was full, when NOT ONE of the rookies took a gun, means that it is perfectly consistent. After Kei became conscious, he took guns, and told Reika and Old Man to. Until that point, NOBODY had taken a single one out of the rack.
Last edited by Damura; April 14, 2009 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
There's at least 6 Y-guns, http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...-31&page_nr=17 the left are the X-guns and the right are the Y-guns
in this scene you see atleast 2 Y-guns http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php...z-32&page_nr=2
at least 2 again
and here we go, finally found the fucker: http://www.mangavolume.com/gantz/chapter-gantz-53/
you can see that the back of the y-gun is different than the x-gun
Last edited by Revilenigma; April 14, 2009 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Yeah we've seen all that, but george wants an explanation for why there are more X-guns than there should be. There are 7 X-pistols in that last image you sent, when there should only be 6, or at least another X-gun or Y-gun to fill up the right-hand rack
@Revilenigma: I already said that there were 2 Y-guns on the floor before the second mission, when Nishi shot the biker punk and left in a hurry; it looked like he left both his X-rifle and Y-gun in his hurry to get the hell out of there. The title of that issue is "Forgotten", after all!
The covers aren't exactly canon. If they were, we would be able to say that Nishi's suit isn't regulation. Then there's that H-gun that's bigger than the girl. And the characters from Hen in Gantz suits. And Tae in a Gantz uniform, etc., etc.; it's just a drawing of three Y-guns in front of the ball, anyway. That doesn't really prove anything.
And, even blown up to 800%, I couldn't tell much about what the guns look like in issue 59, page 12. I would need a HQ scan to tell much about them.
@Damura: Yeah, I had forgotten Izumi's pistol. One out of the 12 should be missing from the rack. I would have to look at how it's drawn to make sure whether it's clearly completely full or not, but if it is, then Oku forgot to remove one of the X-pistols in the drawing.
That page is a little funny; in the top panel, Katou's hands are empty, and the Y-gun is right in front of the teacher. In the bottom panel, Katou is obviously holding the Y-gun. Then a couple of pages later, the teacher transfers, but the Y-gun isn't in front of him anymore. I just assumed that Katou picked it up.
Notice that after it appeared in Katou's hand, it disappeared off the floor.
Last edited by georgemarvin; April 14, 2009 at 10:24 PM.
Last edited by Revilenigma; April 15, 2009 at 06:58 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Hmm...just thought of something else...
We all agree (I think) that each time you clear and choose option number 2 you get a different thing.
I was wondering: let's say that we knew for SURE that the 5th clear was the G-Suit, ok? Now, say Reika clears 4 times (she has cleared 2 after all :P ) and each time she revives someone.
Do you think when she clears a 5th time and chooses option number 2 she'll get an H-Gun or will she go straight to the G-Suit?? Is that even possible? I mean, Gantz IS an asshole. He'll probably give her an H-gun...
What I would like to know is what the other weapons are? some osaka guys have cleared multiple times but yet all they have are H-guns? Is there some weapons they don't like useing cause they think it sucks? A new version of the Y-gun that sends aliens down to fight with you like the blue mage rom FF?
@Kaliayev: We know that the H-guns are a reward, and that Nishi, who may or may not have cleared before, received one. That's all that is confirmed at this stage.
We don't know for sure that the H-gun is the 100 point reward; we still don't know for sure whether Nishi cleared before he died.
It won't even be confirmed if Reika clears and chooses the gun; she has cleared twice, already. If she received one, it could be anything from the 100 to 300 point reward. It also won't be confirmed if Katou, Kei, Old Man, etc. who have each cleared once receive one; it will be the second clear for any of them. For that matter, it won't even be confirmed if Cherry, Takeshi, Kill Bill or HS clears for the first time and receives an H-gun as a reward. It would require several people receiving the same weapon consistently to confirm that my theory is incorrect.
I thought I posted my theory on this thread, but if I put it in another thread, I will look for it and repost it or move it here. This is the best place for it. My theory is basically that the rewards are randomly generated, based on the number of clears. There will be like a half-dozen possible rewards in each tier. Sort of like some video games. For about the first 3 times you clear, you will get one of the items from a menu that includes the H-gun, Y-gun, sword, bike, controller, etc.; when you choose the weapon the 4th-6th time, the rewards change to the gorilla suit, flying bike, and some other unknown items. You receive items from that menu until about the 7th time you clear, when the menu changes again. All the items from then on out are the uber-super-duper mega stuff like the gundam. That would insure that everybody wouldn't get the same stuff, and some of it would be useless to the player, who would then either put it in the armory room or give it to another player. For instance, you might have bad luck and get the sword three times in a row. Or bikes. Or H-guns. Or gundams, for that matter.
RNG rewards? That's ridiculous. "Well, I didn't get what I wanted...time to reload and manipulate the RNG." Oku is being very explicit by having Nishi get the bfg. He wants to confirm, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the 100 point weapon is the bfg. You're excessively reading into it. The bfg far outclasses the basic equipment that they started with. There is no way gantz could apply the same descriptor (extremely powerful weapon) to the bfg and the lesser weapons, such as the sword and the y-gun.
Also, if someone chose the 100 point option twice in a row and received the bfg both times, they wouldn't choose that option again. They'd probably revive someone, leave, or try to see what happens at 200 points.
I'm also going to post my explanation of the Osakan point and reward distribution here, since it doesn't appear people are taking it into consideration:
1) Oka was there before any of the other Osakan hunters we know about. After getting the bfg, under the assumption that the bfg is the 100-point reward, he told gantz that each time he got 100, gantz should bank the points so that it looked like he had less than 100 each time. He also asked gantz to always tally his points last.
2) Insert the trio. They see Oka and his bfg and think it's the shit. They hurry to get 100 points so they can get a bfg, and they get them. Knob becomes the first to clear twice and with his hundred points, he goes for the powerful weapon again (he thinks like you guys XD). Unfortunately for him, gantz gives him another bfg (btw, this also happens to be Kyou's first mission).
3) Oka gets scored last and has over 100. He tells gantz to show him his net total and the corresponding reward menu. He has 300 points, and one of the options is the g-suit. He chooses this option.
4) The next mission, they see Oka and his g-suit in action. After getting it, he's able to rack up 100 points each mission, while the others only get a fraction of that. They all get jealous, and slightly pissed that he kept his real point amount hidden, and decide that, regardless of what options are on the 200 point menu, they'll get g-suits next (remember that Kyou wasn't wielding a bfg). Just before the Nura mission, Kyou, Kuwa, George, and Knob have acquired a banked total of 200+ points, while Oka has gotten another 300. He asks for the mecha/bike combo. This makes the Nura mission his first opportunity for using this reward, explaining why he was amateurish, in comparison to his g-suit and bfg expertise, with it.
I realize there's a hole. Why would Oka bank points after getting the bfg? Nishi's told us about a gantz chan. If Oka knew about this and was able to sift through the irrelevant posts, he could have found a description of the higher rewards. After this, he decided he wanted the meacha/bike combo and the g-suit.
Finally, time to add the limited warranty theory- If one steals another person's reward and it breaks, one doesn't get a replacement (original owner probably does, provided he doesn't die):
p.s. As far as I can tell, your theory would still fail to explain why Knob only used a bfg (he had 4 clears).
Last edited by kaliayev; April 15, 2009 at 03:58 PM.