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Thread: NFL Thread

  1. #691
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    Re: The NFL Thread

    I just think it's silly that they only fix the stuff that helps the offense.

    Zone cut blocking injures defensive players, the NFL has known this for years. Does the NFL care? No.
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  3. #692
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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammin View Post
    I just think it's silly that they only fix the stuff that helps the offense.

    Zone cut blocking injures defensive players, the NFL has known this for years. Does the NFL care? No.
    That's because the "safety" issue is just lip-service. The real motives are obvious - money.

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's SOOO obvious that the League's stance on fining for brutal hits and these added penalties are not just to make the game safer, they're also trying to dampen their liability in the numerous pending lawsuits they have by former players. Them wanting to increase the schedule is enough of a contradiction that it forces you to look elsewhere.
    Yeah, and it's just representative of more of Goodell's hypocrisy. The attempt to put on a better PR face is completely contradicted by putting the players in even more of harm's way by wanting to make them play two games.

    Let's not forget that beer and alcohol corporations are some of the NFL's biggest sponsors, and instead of trying to do anything about alcohol education for their players, the NFL does nothing and then when something like the Cowboys' latest debacle occurs, instead of doing anything about it, we all get to talk about the NFL just sits by. I was watching Sports Reporters earlier, and then they mentioned the exact same issue about how many times we've seen drunk driving with NFL players and nothing's done, but there's a single player who has a gun incident and it's a massive problem. Damn hypocrisy.

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  6. #694
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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Yeah, and it's just representative of more of Goodell's hypocrisy. The attempt to put on a better PR face is completely contradicted by putting the players in even more of harm's way by wanting to make them play two games.

    Let's not forget that beer and alcohol corporations are some of the NFL's biggest sponsors, and instead of trying to do anything about alcohol education for their players, the NFL does nothing and then when something like the Cowboys' latest debacle occurs, instead of doing anything about it, we all get to talk about the NFL just sits by. I was watching Sports Reporters earlier, and then they mentioned the exact same issue about how many times we've seen drunk driving with NFL players and nothing's done, but there's a single player who has a gun incident and it's a massive problem. Damn hypocrisy.
    I don't know how much I buy into the "Role Model" aspect of professional athletes, but you see these things all the time. Juxtaposing this sort of thing with how arbitrary Goodell seems at time with disciplinary action just leads to a blurred picture.

    I liked Goodell at first, he ruled with an iron fist and did a lot of things right. But this far into his tenure I think he's just gone too far.

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    I never liked Goodell.

    I'm all in favor of promoting player safety and such but his way of enacting such things is to strong arm NFLPA instead of working with them. I realize he works for the owners but as the commissioner of the NFL his first priority should be teams and players that make the NFL what it is. As well as respecting where the roots of what the game of Football is when changes are made to the rules. The ref thing was just another example of how he, and many of the owners, just don't care about the integrity of the game.

    He and the league office have gotten into the habit of scapegoating and strong-arming players in a way that is completely unacceptable to me as well.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    The 18 game schedule thing is just absurd and I'm proud to say the owner of the Steelers said as much.


    Unlike many owners, the elder Rooney is staunchly against expanding the regular season to 18 games, which is an issue in the current negotiations. Many players feel that would be too punishing to their bodies and would significantly shorten their careers.

    "I would rather not get the money" than expand the regular season, Rooney said.

    "You have a system that works, so why add them?" he said. "Now the people usually say, 'The preseason doesn't work.' Well, look at the preseason as the preseason and try to work that out. Don't say you're going to start messing with the full system."


    - From The Los Angeles Times

    ---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 AM ----------

    And I would like to offer a heartfelt congratulations to the Raven's fans of the world. Your free from Cam Cameron's play calling at last.
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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Gary, thoughts on the Ravens firing Cam Cameron and replacing him with the QB Coach, Jim Caldwell?

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Gary, thoughts on the Ravens firing Cam Cameron and replacing him with the QB Coach, Jim Caldwell?
    I had nothing to do all day, there was a scheduled power outage all day in my neighborhood. I got the text with the news and was pretty surprised. I was not a fan of Cam Cameron. I liked the hire at first due to his association with Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers, but if you look at it, both of them got better after him being their coordinator. I think the consistency in the position has been a good thing for Joe and the offense. Not every young QB is afforded that opportunity.

    The timing is a bit odd. It sort of reminds me of when Billick fired Jim Fassel and it resulted in a 13-3 record. We did lose to the Colts that year at home without them scoring a touchdown. The only difference is how late n the year it happened. You don't typically see this from a winning team, much less a 9-4 team.

    Another thing that is odd is Caldwell hasn't called plays since he coached in college, so that's a big question mark. Harbaugh's influence in the offensive gameplan is sort of an unknown commodity, as he made a name for himself as a Special Teams and Defensive position coach. So I'm not really sure. Typically teams respond well to this sort of thing, and we'll need to in order to keep pace in the AFC, with games against Denver, the Giants, and the Bengals to close out the season. I feel safe saying that a 1st Round bye probably isn't in the cards for us this season, given how this game tonight is going and who we have left to play.

    Though, with how the defense has been playing, I wonder if the only reason DC Dean Pees still has a job is because of the injuries on that side of the ball. It has been just as underwhelming, if not more.

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Caldwall didn't call plays in Indy when he was the head coach? I thought he was their OC, or is he a defensive guy? I've forgotten, but I had thought that he was an OC.

    Assuming the Patriots don't choke away a four TD lead here, the Pats move up to second in the AFC and if the Texans lose again, the Pats get first, which probably means that a first round bye isn't going to happen for the Ravens this season.

    Dean Pees isn't responsible for how awfully the defense has played this season because of how many injures there have been (although I think that he could've done more with them), but they have been bad. We'll see, but I think it's easier to fire your OC than your DC in this situation as if you fire your DC, the defense might start thinking that you've completely lost confidence in them, and that can't be good for any of them.

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    The Texans are once again getting exposed don't think I'm going to watch this game anymore. It's no longer interesting now, and the Patriots have a big enough lead.
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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Caldwall didn't call plays in Indy when he was the head coach? I thought he was their OC, or is he a defensive guy? I've forgotten, but I had thought that he was an OC.

    Assuming the Patriots don't choke away a four TD lead here, the Pats move up to second in the AFC and if the Texans lose again, the Pats get first, which probably means that a first round bye isn't going to happen for the Ravens this season.

    Dean Pees isn't responsible for how awfully the defense has played this season because of how many injures there have been (although I think that he could've done more with them), but they have been bad. We'll see, but I think it's easier to fire your OC than your DC in this situation as if you fire your DC, the defense might start thinking that you've completely lost confidence in them, and that can't be good for any of them.
    His first job in the NFL was as a QB Coach in Tampa. Then he was with the Colts until this year. I don't think the Colts had an OC, but if they did, he wasn't it. He was a QB Coach and Assistant HC until he got the Head Coaching job in succession of Dungy. Consider who he coached as well, Manning is his own OC

    You guys still have to play the 49ers, but I thought this game would at least be competitive, so I don't know what to say about that one on Sunday night...Well, any given Sunday. Jacksonville should be an easy win, and Miami is a game they SHOULD win, but it's a divisional game so I don't know. They're being dominant at the right time though.

    Houston has Indy twice, a very hot team and Minnesota. I would expect them to respond well, but I could see them going 1-2 down the stretch. If the Patriots can have success running the ball on Houston, I see no reason why Adrian Peterson can't. The team is extremely talented, but they don't have winning in their blood. Schaub has no playoff experience, their defense seems to play worse every week. Even if those things go well, Denver would have to lose twice as well, which is unlikely given they play Cleveland and KC. I guess it's good we're playing them at home this week, but I have no idea what to expect for that game...no clue.


    Of course Pees is responsible, he's in charge of the Defense. You take injuries into account, but this team doesn't make excuses. We practically invented "Next Man Up", John Feinstein wrote the book on that. What I'm saying is that the injuries are the reason his job might not be in jeopardy.

    And I can't agree with which coordinator is more damaging to fire, as it means you've lost confidence in either side of the ball. The defense has pride, they aren't BAD, as they've kept us in games in key spots, but they only have glimpses of domination.

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    His first job in the NFL was as a QB Coach in Tampa. Then he was with the Colts until this year. I don't think the Colts had an OC, but if they did, he wasn't it. He was a QB Coach and Assistant HC until he got the Head Coaching job in succession of Dungy. Consider who he coached as well, Manning is his own OC
    Hmm, Tampa, not really an impressive place to have worked. Yeah, it is true that Peyton is more or less his own OC, so Caldwell didn't play that role.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    You guys still have to play the 49ers, but I thought this game would at least be competitive, so I don't know what to say about that one on Sunday night...Well, any given Sunday. Jacksonville should be an easy win, and Miami is a game they SHOULD win, but it's a divisional game so I don't know. They're being dominant at the right time though.

    Houston has Indy twice, a very hot team and Minnesota. I would expect them to respond well, but I could see them going 1-2 down the stretch. If the Patriots can have success running the ball on Houston, I see no reason why Adrian Peterson can't. The team is extremely talented, but they don't have winning in their blood. Schaub has no playoff experience, their defense seems to play worse every week. Even if those things go well, Denver would have to lose twice as well, which is unlikely given they play Cleveland and KC. I guess it's good we're playing them at home this week, but I have no idea what to expect for that game...no clue.
    That is true. The 49ers game will be quite the interesting one, although we do have the advantage at the QB position, but they clearly have the advantage on the DL. The two Smiths are beasts. Yeah, I did not expect this to not be a game, and the fact that we actually outrushed the Texans (I know some of it was late on) means that we can shut down a rushing game. Jacksonville couldn't even do anything against the Jets, so I don't expect too much there, and for the Miami game, the Dolphins haven't done too much this season. It might be a closer game than Pats fans might prefer, but it should be a relatively comfortably win; on the other hand, we have lost to the Dolphins a few times in the past when we just stunk it up in a late season game. This season, instead of playing well in the beginning and middle, we were poor in the beginning and have seemed to have improved all season long. I mean, would you have ever thought that our defense could shut down Andre Johnson and Arian Foster at all?

    Yeah, AP > Stevan Ridley, so I think the Vikings can definitely win that game over the Texans. Luck's Colts have shown a lot of resilience this season; I know that the Titans aren't a great team, but the Colts looked out of the game this week and then came back to win. The chances of the Ravens getting a first round bye are probably slim as it requires all three teams ahead of them to stink up games.

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Of course Pees is responsible, he's in charge of the Defense. You take injuries into account, but this team doesn't make excuses. We practically invented "Next Man Up", John Feinstein wrote the book on that. What I'm saying is that the injuries are the reason his job might not be in jeopardy.

    And I can't agree with which coordinator is more damaging to fire, as it means you've lost confidence in either side of the ball. The defense has pride, they aren't BAD, as they've kept us in games in key spots, but they only have glimpses of domination.
    I have not been at all impressed with Pees this season. In fact, I think that he should be fired, but I'm not a huge fan of firing either coordinator during the season because I think it's just something to make it look like you're doing something about things, when you're really not. Well, most teams only have one coordinator (so you only have the option to fire one coordinator, unless you want to fire your head coach, and that's worse than firing a coordinator, but firing a coordinator is often the scapegoat method employed because you don't want to fire your head coach), although some, like the Patriots, actually do have a coordinator of the type that their head coach is for some odd reason. We have had a DC at times, when it's clear that Belichick's our DC, so I don't know what's going on there.

    The "Next Man Up" thing just isn't at all present for the Ravens this season. I would've thought that the Ravens would've had someone decent to back up Ray Lewis (clearly you can't have a true replacement for him), but there's been no one to step into that void.

    ---------- Post added December 11, 2012 at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was December 10, 2012 at 11:59 PM ----------

    Actually, an important thing for the Patriots is that the deep ball, which we got two TDs on, seems to be back in play for us. I wonder what we're going to do once Gronk is back and we'll have five players that we need to get the ball to.

    ---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

    I still don't know what to think about the Texans. They got wrecked by the Packers in a game very similar to tonight's game (which to me, wasn't much of a surprise because I looked at the Packers game, and realistically, we're a better version of the Packers, so I wasn't too worried about tonight's game), but then game back to wreck the Ravens the next week.

    Perhaps the Texans are that team which looks awesome in the regular season against almost everyone, but the very best passing teams in the league just do too much for the Texans to cope and the Texans capitulate in those games.

    ---------- Post added at 12:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 AM ----------

    Adam Schefter just said that the Ravens debated firing Cameron in the offseason and then again as recently as after last week's loss to the Steelers, so I guess that they'd been thinking about firing him for a while. I still think that this is the wrong time to fire him because even with two losses in a row, the Ravens are still a good team and are in the poll position to win the AFC North, so this just establishes that the Ravens have no confidence in the offense, and by extension, Joe Flacco.

    In fact, I've thought that Flacco's been getting better and better and better, even though certain games this season haven't shown that, and he's been moving up by QB ranking. I'd put him somewhere between 8th and 10th overall for QBs at this point, which is quite good, especially considering that Brady and Peyton are a touch above everyone else most of the time, and then Rodgers and Brees are up there as well.

    I'm still not sure where I'd rank Andrew Luck, RG3, and Cam Newton as we haven't seen consistency yet, although they're all very young, so you can completely forgive and accept that. Both Luck and RG3 have far surpassed my expectations of them for this season, and on the other hand, I had the Panthers as a wild card team. Cam's not really responsible for a lot of their losses, but he could've done a lot more to help them out.

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    I have not been at all impressed with Pees this season. In fact, I think that he should be fired, but I'm not a huge fan of firing either coordinator during the season because I think it's just something to make it look like you're doing something about things, when you're really not. Well, most teams only have one coordinator (so you only have the option to fire one coordinator, unless you want to fire your head coach, and that's worse than firing a coordinator, but firing a coordinator is often the scapegoat method employed because you don't want to fire your head coach), although some, like the Patriots, actually do have a coordinator of the type that their head coach is for some odd reason. We have had a DC at times, when it's clear that Belichick's our DC, so I don't know what's going on there.
    I agree with what you say here in regards to firings, but no one is crying tears for Cameron in this town. Most fans feel we won in spite of him, not because of him. I think that is sort of ridiculous, but he's taken us as far as he can, similar to Rivers and Brees. But yes, a firing like this is a PR thing ultimately.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    The "Next Man Up" thing just isn't at all present for the Ravens this season. I would've thought that the Ravens would've had someone decent to back up Ray Lewis (clearly you can't have a true replacement for him), but there's been no one to step into that void.
    I think you misunderstood me a bit. We lost a handful of veterans on defense this season to free agency. Building depth is something Newsome and DeCosta have always done well, save for the cap-purge season in 2002 when it was unavoidable. When you have young players taking over for really key veterans on the defense, like Cory Redding and Jarret Johnson, that is how drafts pay off or not. But when you have this on top of MORE veteran losses to injury, you do the best you can. Paul Kruger has had a pretty good season as a full-time starter at OLB. Despite being injured in his second year, Pernel McPhee showed promise in his rookie year. Arthur Jones as well. Courtney Upshaw has played well for a rookie, as has Albert McClellan. As far as ILB goes, I think Dannell Ellerbe is a better all-around player and has shown to have the speed to cover well, but he was injured this week. Jameel McClain has been a starter for the last three seasons next to Lewis. He's a serviceable player, and has had some fantastic games, but he's not a superstar by any means.

    Then you have our secondary, which had a ton of depth at the start of the year...and it's a good thing it did. Losing Lardarius Webb was a big blow. That guy is a top CB in the league IMO, and has a ton of versatility. Asking Cary Williams to play man-up against a teams best WR is probably too much and he's been picked on this year. He's a good player though. Jimmy Smith has been hurt, and honestly I don't like the cushion he gives those he lines up against. The guy made a name for himself at Colorado for being an in-your-face CB, jamming people at the line. I don't see enough of him doing that. I'm not going to say he's a bust as a First Round pick as he doesn't have enough games under his belt, but he's had some growing pains. Bernard Pollard is a hell of a player at SS, and Ed Reed is Ed Reed. Corey Graham was a great pick up and has impressed me a lot.

    The defense has been patchwork this year and it shows. The idea that Josh Bynes (a player I do like mind you) would be signed off the practice squad and play significant time on a RAVENS DEFENSE...a PRACTICE SQUAD player, is something you just don't see. Not on a team with the defensive history we have. It'll be interesting to see how effective Suggs can be with his biceps injury, as well as Lewis. We actually sort of need him now

    ---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyMouse View Post
    Adam Schefter just said that the Ravens debated firing Cameron in the offseason and then again as recently as after last week's loss to the Steelers, so I guess that they'd been thinking about firing him for a while. I still think that this is the wrong time to fire him because even with two losses in a row, the Ravens are still a good team and are in the poll position to win the AFC North, so this just establishes that the Ravens have no confidence in the offense, and by extension, Joe Flacco.

    In fact, I've thought that Flacco's been getting better and better and better, even though certain games this season haven't shown that, and he's been moving up by QB ranking. I'd put him somewhere between 8th and 10th overall for QBs at this point, which is quite good, especially considering that Brady and Peyton are a touch above everyone else most of the time, and then Rodgers and Brees are up there as well.
    It's easier to fire a coach. But I cannot accept that firing Cameron = no confidence in our offense. That just makes no sense.

    Yeah, you sort of contradict yourself with your thoughts on Flacco . I agree, he hasn't gotten WORSE.

    I think the Caldwell hiring in the offseason meant the writing was on the wall for Cameron. I thought he was on a short leash then and it's obvious he sort of was now, in reality.

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Yeah, um, there's no way that I could name virtually any of the replacements for the Ravens this year. Who played in place of Ellerbe against the Redskins?

    Pollard injures people, so that's always good. As much as I like Ed Reed, Ed Reed hasn't been Ed Reed this season. Webb's loss has been huge, there's no doubt about that.

    I'm okay with signing practice squad players to the offensive side of the ball, but yeah, not on the defense. You don't even really see that on teams without a great defensive history. Is there really time for Suggs and Ray Lewis to return though? I know that Lewis is supposed to return next week, but if he plays a game or two (if he does, will he really be in any shape with having been off for that long?), you don't know how well he'll hold up

    ---------- Post added at 12:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 AM ----------

    I don't know how things work in Baltimore and no one really thought Cameron was going to last past this season, but I would like to see more consistency with having your QB work with the same OC for a long period of time.

    The best QBs work well with any OC, although you can question whether Peyton's really ever had an OC, and Brady seems to do about half of the OC work himself, so I don't know on that front.

    The fact that Flacco hasn't regressed is a positive, but the fact that the offense stutters at times and doesn't always put up 20+ can be a problem. I know that the offense has been more consistently putting up points than previously under Flacco, but we're still getting the games where the defense has to bail Flacco out.

    Do we actually know how good or bad Caldwell is an OC though? I don't really know, especially as you said that he hasn't been an OC since he coached college, so I'm kind of confused. Is this really going to be a positive move for Flacco, especially midseason?

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    The whole showing the starters at the beginning of the game is sort of pointless with a lot of defenses, especially ours. There's so many rotations that go on with the Defensive Line, then you have your Nickel and Dime packages that might see different DBs and LBs out there. To answer your question though, I believe Ayanbadejo and McClellan filled his roll. When Jameel McClain got hurt you then saw Josh Bynes out there.

    Pollard has found new life here. He had an awful reputation with the Texans as a DB. It just goes to show you what good talent and a good scheme around you can do. I like the way he plays the game, even though he's a bit too hotheaded at times.

    Reed has been Feast or Famine in some situations because he gambles going after the ball. Since he's become older he's become less versatile. And when he does get his hand on the ball, I almost have a panic attack because the guy refuses to go down. The last time he got his hand on the ball he actually took the ball away from his own body to fake out someone trying to tackle him...almost like he was like a magician. So bizarre.

    Ray was back to practice this week, as was Suggs. Suggs was a game-time decision but did not play. I could see them both playing this week against Denver. They could both be limited, but Ray Lewis and the word "limited" don't really belong in the same sentence...that guy never takes plays off, so not sure.




    There was consistency, both in stats and record. But there's the things you see on paper and the things you see with your own eyes. Some of the playcalling is just mindboggling at time, and Cameron just doesn't make the proper adjustments a lot of the time.

    The best QBs work with the best OCs. It doesn't really work this way. People have made quite the handsome dollar off of being associated with both Manning and Brady, and haven't had the same level of success elsewhere. That's because they're the two best ever at the position probably. Flacco isn't that. I'm also willing to bet he'll never be that.

    I think the consistency issue is related to gameplanning. At least, that's how the organization sees it, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered making this change.

    The move wouldn't have been made if they didn't have confidence in Caldwell. The guy knows the game. But it IS a question mark, not going to lie. I think he's auditioning for the job for next season.

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    Re: The NFL Thread

    Yeah, some teams have certain players out there almost every snap, but most switch people in and a lot. This isn't Madden where you're trying to get all of your starters to play every snap, because if people did that in real life, most of them would start getting injured and fatigued fairly quickly, barring supermen like Ray Lewis.

    I did not see that play with Reed, so I'll have to check it out.

    I know that they were both back to practice, but in a big game like this, where it could potentially decide whether or not the Ravens can get a first round bye, I had thought that if they were able, they'd be out there on at least some plays. As a result, I'm kind of confused on where they are at the moment.

    There's no denying that Cameron has done an awful job this season. Passing when you should run and running when you should pass are just the most obvious of his flaws, but yeah, overall, the playcalling has been poor.

    I mean, I'm sure that Josh McDaniels is a decent OC, but he couldn't hack it as a head coach in Denver. Regardless, his career has been built upon Brady being Brady, and when he didn't have Brady, it didn't happen, but when Brady didn't have McDaniels, it still happened for Brady. Yeah, plenty of guys have made a lot of money because they were part of Peyton or Brady's offensive staff, even though they didn't really do very much.

    I'm not sure if the consistency issue is all down to Cameron's bad playcalling, or if the Ravens are just using him as a scapegoat. Even with questionable playcalling, NFL-caliber athletes should be able to make plays, so I don't know.

    I don't have that much confidence in Caldwell, but if he has had an affect on Flacco this season, it has been positive, so there's that. I don't know whether he's any good at being an OC, but we'll find out in the next few weeks. It can't really be worse than Cameron, so it'll probably be a positive change.

    ---------- Post added at 01:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 AM ----------

    I guess that there is one thing we could learn from Ryan Mallett this week. He will never be our starter unless Brady gets killed. On the interception he threw, it was there for the receiver to catch, but it was a little off to the side and then it bounced off the receiver's arm for a pick, so not entirely Mallett's fault, but the accuracy isn't there if we needed to rely on him in a pinch.

    I really wonder what we'll do in the next few seasons when we do need to start looking for a replacement for Tom. Maybe we'll trade up and get some awesome looking guy in a few seasons or find another semi-hidden gem like Brady, although the chances of ever finding another Brady are virtually nil.

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