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View Poll Results: Result of a rematch between the two?

Voters
22. You may not vote on this poll
  • Kenpachi will still trash Tousen

    10 45.45%
  • A fierce fight but Kenpachi will still emerge as victorious

    1 4.55%
  • Vizard+enma korogi only would beat Kenpachi

    0 0%
  • Tousen's resurreccion only would defeat Kenpachi

    3 13.64%
  • Both Tousen's powers (hollow and vizard-assisted shinigami) are necessary to Kenpachi

    2 9.09%
  • Tousen using the abilities displayed during his original match would suffice for victory

    2 9.09%
  • Draw/Too close to call

    4 18.18%
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Thread: Tousen vs. Zaraki

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member gigantor21's Avatar
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    Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Discussion on Tousen-Zaraki, and it's meaning in relation to the story, goes here.

    ...WTF is Aizen smiling about? XD

    Quote Originally Posted by Random YouTube Comment
    "Roses are red.
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    Omae wa mo shindeiru!"

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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Tousen wasn't serious about killing Zaraki, until the last second in their last fight anyone else would have died under that kind of punishment and I believe by the end of the arc Zaraki will die at Tousen's hands or nothing will happen between them

    My proof about the first fight is when Tousen is going for the stab that would have killed Zaraki, he finally understands that Kenpachi is too evil to be kept alive. But, Kenpachi caught Tousen's hand and sliced him with a slice that would have badly wounded any of the captains, except probably the first himself.
    Last edited by JioFreed666; February 06, 2008 at 11:20 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    Tousen wasn't serious about killing Zaraki, until the last second in their last fight anyone else would have died under that kind of punishment and I believe by the end of the arc Zaraki will die at Tousen's hands or nothing will happen between them

    My proof about the first fight is when Tousen is going for the stab that would have killed Zaraki, he finally understands that Kenpachi is too evil to be kept alive. But, Kenpachi caught Tousen's hand and sliced him with a slice that would have badly wounded any of the captains, except probably the first himself.
    Tousen was going for vital spots basically the entire fight. If he were to use bankai on Kenpachi again, he wouldn't be able to touch him. Kenpachi completely figured out Tousen's bankai by the end of the fight.

  4. #4
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Amatersu's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    Tousen wasn't serious about killing Zaraki, until the last second in their last fight anyone else would have died under that kind of punishment and I believe by the end of the arc Zaraki will die at Tousen's hands or nothing will happen between them

    My proof about the first fight is when Tousen is going for the stab that would have killed Zaraki, he finally understands that Kenpachi is too evil to be kept alive. But, Kenpachi caught Tousen's hand and sliced him with a slice that would have badly wounded any of the captains, except probably the first himself.
    I sincerely doubt Zaraki will die. If they fight Tousen is gonna kick it. Zaraki already figured out how to beat Tousen's ban-kai so unless they turn Tousen into a Vaizard, it's going to be Zaraki's victory.
    frack.

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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    He figured out how to beat Suzumushi's bankai but not Tousen's true zanpakuto remember it's not tousen's original zanpakuto which has yet to be seen and 9/10 tousen is a Vizard
    Proof it's not Tousen's original Zanpakuto
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/148/09/

    and as I was saying before Tousen going for the final shot was going for the kill shot not just vitals you can still live with wounds to vital organs:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/147/16/
    Last edited by JioFreed666; February 07, 2008 at 12:11 AM.

  6. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    He figured out how to beat Suzumushi's bankai but not Tousen's true zanpakuto remember it's not tousen's original zanpakuto which has yet to be seen and 9/10 tousen is a Vizard
    Proof it's not Tousen's original Zanpakuto
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/148/09/
    A zanpakutou is the manifestation of a soul's power. If the zanpakutou's owner's soul is dead, there is no power left in it. Tousen used the zanpakutou as if it were an asauchi, and his own powers manifested in it. He doesn't have another one.

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    and as I was saying before Tousen going for the final shot was going for the kill shot not just vitals you can still live with wounds to vital organs:
    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/147/16/
    You die if you lose a vital organ...
    Last edited by Neuroff; February 07, 2008 at 12:20 AM.

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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    A zanpakutou is the manifestation of a soul's power. If the zanpakutou's owner's soul is dead, there is no power left in it. Tousen used the zanpakutou as if it were an asauchi, and his own powers manifested in it. He doesn't have another one.
    How are you 100% sure of that statement? is their any Kubo tite offical proof the says when a Shinigami dies their Zanpakuto becomes a Asauchi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    You die if you lose a vital organ...
    If you lose but not if your struck in it
    Last edited by JioFreed666; February 07, 2008 at 12:42 AM.

  8. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    How are you 100% sure of that statement? is their any Kubo tite offical proof the says when a Shinigami dies their Zanpakuto becomes a Asauchi?
    I'm not saying that's exactly what happened, but Tousen using a dead shinigami's powers makes no sense. The zanpakutou is a manifestation of their power. If they die they no longer have power, so why should the zanpakutou have any power left in it? Tousen only carries this zanpakutou and its abilities perfectly match him. Who could have a bankai that takes away his opponent's senses but a blind man?

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    If you lose but not if your struck in
    Cut the organ up and it's not going to be functioning. It's the same thing.

  9. #9
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    I'm not saying that's exactly what happened, but Tousen using a dead shinigami's powers makes no sense. The zanpakutou is a manifestation of their power. If they die they no longer have power, so why should the zanpakutou have any power left in it? Tousen only carries this zanpakutou and its abilities perfectly match him. Who could have a bankai that takes away his opponent's senses but a blind man?

    I base most of my Zanpakuto information based on manga info that comes down to:
    the Zanpakuto once fully realized is it's own being and can change based on it's holder but never fully be changed to a completely different being all together. I get the proof from what's happening with Ichigo who has been close to the edge of death many times but Zangetsu(as both the old man and Hollow Ichigo,who is now the soul of Zangetsu from what he's said in the manga) has acted on it's own to help Ichigo but has never once actually needed to keep Ichigo alive since it's has it's own soul can heal on it's own and only needs Ichigo to wield him,since no one else can unlike Tousen who seems to have the ability to wield another's zanpakuto. remember apologizer has the ablility to make the person's weapon heavier but it's not because apologizer is heavy or the wielder can't move that fast as it's seen the wielder can use his zanpakuto's shikai with one hand without much problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    Cut the organ up and it's not going to be functioning. It's the same thing.
    Tousen's only going for a single stab not stabbing and twist
    Last edited by JioFreed666; February 07, 2008 at 12:47 AM.

  10. #10
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    I base most of my Zanpakuto information based on manga info that comes down to:
    the Zanpakuto once fully realized is it's own being and can change based on it's holder but never fully be changed to a completely different being all together.
    No idea where you're getting this.

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    I get the proof from what's happening with Ichigo who has been close to the edge of death many times but Zangetsu(as both the old man and Hollow Ichigo,who is now the soul of Zangetsu from what he's said in the manga) has acted on it's own to help Ichigo but has never once actually needed to keep Ichigo alive since it's has it's own soul can heal on it's own and only needs Ichigo to wield him,since no one else can unlike Tousen who seems to have the ability to wield another's zanpakuto.
    No, they are both parts of Ichigo's soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    Tousen's only going for a single stab not stabbing and twist
    It doesn't matter, it still destroys the organ.

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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    No idea where you're getting this.
    Old man was original Zangetsu's main form now it's Hollow Ichigo based on the fact that Ichigo nearly became a hollow and is now a Vizard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    No, they are both parts of Ichigo's soul.
    but Hollow Ichigo is the more dominate part now and it's it's own separate being much like Zabimaru which pulled itself together and healed itself while Renji was knocked out it might at one time been part of their soul but it's now it's own being but at the same time can be influence by their soul
    and look what I said about the apologizer

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroff View Post
    It doesn't matter, it still destroys the organ.
    It only damages the organs if it's stab in other words can be repaired, not destroys the organ which means unrepairable
    Last edited by JioFreed666; February 07, 2008 at 01:03 AM.

  12. #12
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    Old man was original Zangetsu's main form now it's Hollow Ichigo based on the fact that Ichigo nearly became a hollow and is now a Vizard.
    They both exist at the same time, it's not one or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    but Hollow Ichigo is the more dominate part now and it's it's own separate being much like Zabimaru which pulled itself together and healed itself while Renji was knocked out it might at one time been part of their soul but it's now it's own being but at the same time can be influence by their soul
    It's not a separate being, the zanpakutou can be physically manifested temporarily.

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    and look what I said about the apologizer
    Don't see what you're trying to say. Wabisuke doubles the weight of anything it cuts because that's its shikai ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    It only damages the organs if it's stab in other words can be repaired, not destroys the organ which means unrepairable
    A stab isn't just going to leave a nice little wound that you can heal, especially with Kenpachi moving around. He would have to be extremely lucky for a vital organ to take damage and still be repairable.
    Last edited by Neuroff; February 07, 2008 at 01:27 AM.

  13. #13
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted TheChosenOne's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    I think had tousen chosen to decapitate kenpachi when he first activated bankai then ken would be dead. Tousen kept cutting kenpachi which gave ken time to figure how to counter tousen's bankai and use it to his advantage. If zaraki fought tousen again, then I would have to pick zaraki cuz he is aware of tousen's skills.




  14. #14
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/146/14/ <---- This is not a vital organ hit. This is the first hit Tousen gives Kenpachi when in his bankai. This should of been a blow to cut the head off, but it wasn't. Tousen held Kenpachi's life in his hand but he failed to stop lecturing and just do the darn deed.

  15. #15
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Neuroff's Avatar
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    Re: Tousen vs. Zaraki

    It really doesn't matter, this is just the way that Kubo decided to write the story. You can't even say that Kenpachi wouldn't have avoided dying if Tousen went for the vitals from the first strike. If Kubo had chosen to write it that way, Kenpachi still would have survived. This was just a better way of introducing Tousen's bankai.

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