"Kirin" Vs Rasen-Shuriken

[badluckartist]

As far as Sasuke explains it, he uses his own lightning chakra to guide the natural lighting. That explains the ornate shape it takes, and how he can control it's trajectory.

Even if the natural lightning itself is incompatible with chakra based elemental rock-paper-scissors, the right chakra type being used in the right way could hypothetically short out Sasuke's control of the lightning, either dispelling it before the technique is used or blocking it altogether. Wind seems to me a likely candidate for this, if it's possible at all.

Unnecessarily long explanation: All jutsu that 'control' something in Naruto do it through some medium- Puppeteers and their strings, Nagato and his metal rods, Kakuzu and his threads. For Sasuke, it's simply his chakra that connects to a natural source. The two might become one in the same as far as being chakra, but since Sasuke controls it until it strikes, it's highly unlikely that Kirin can be solely classified as being all natural lightning. And thus, subject to chakra elemental rock-paper-scissors. Like puppet strings are to rival puppeteers. And Nagato's rods to Sage Mode's sensory perception. And Kakuzu's threads to being a physically vulnerable connection.

Kirin does strike in an instant, but the preparation time for it and Sasuke's pride do not. Before striking somebody like Naruto with it, he'll probably gloat about how awesome it is beforehand like he did with Itachi. Naruto has been able to form his more complete FRS pretty damn quick, and odds are Sasuke won't know quite what he's doing until he's blocked it with a completely unbelievable jutsu, just like Itachi did to him. It would serve the drama of their fight's narrative if it worked out that way, at least.

[Rikudou King]

If you use some tech to call down real lighting from the sky or use chakra to make lighting the end result is the same. Wind blows, fire burns ... What is the diference? I for one never found any diference between real and made up element. When Yamato creates that waterfall do you think that was FAKE water ? Come on ... Its abvious they can use there chakra to reproduce the elements.

The difference is using real element make a technique far more powerful then if only chakra was used. When ninjas create a element from their chakra, It their chakra made into an element, Which is why the elemental cycle works. A natural element on the other hand isn't made of chakra, making it outside the cycle as there is no elemental advantage in nature.

Now Naruto can trow up FRS in the sky and then expand the disc on the horizontal to make a shield for himself and absorb the damage.
Something else important .. KIRING DOES NOT ACT LIKE REAL LIGHTING. First it made a face in the sky and second Itachi had enough time to put up Susano. Do you realy belive that anybody in Naruto verse has the reflexes of Superman?

Naruto throwing FRS is the air wouldn't block Kirin. The only way Naruto could block Kirin with the FRS is by holding it above him, Which would still cause him to take massive damage in the resulting explosion.

Itachi had enough time to put up Susanoo because Sasuke took the time to explain the technique to him. And even then Itachi still took damage. Naruto can't create the FRS in an instant. It takes time to make the clones and form the FRS and then more time for it to fly compare to the speed at which Kirin strikes down.

In Naruto-verse wind beats lighting ... deal with it.

Only when it involves chakra and only when one technique is stronger then another.

What is more usefull.

Depends on what you prefer.

Defenetly FRS. It has more uses and you don't need prep. Kirin is great and all but only when you can decide where the fight will take place and actualy know there is going to be a battle.

What more uses? It can't be used for anything other then killing someone and in that regard Kirin does a far bigger job. FRS does require prep and unlike Kirin, You can't do anything while it's being prepared.

Kirin does strike in an instant, but the preparation time for it and Sasuke's pride do not. Before striking somebody like Naruto with it, he'll probably gloat about how awesome it is beforehand like he did with Itachi. Naruto has been able to form his more complete FRS pretty damn quick, and odds are Sasuke won't know quite what he's doing until he's blocked it with a completely unbelievable jutsu, just like Itachi did to him. It would serve the drama of their fight's narrative if it worked out that way, at least.

Agree with all but this. Even if Naruto send FRS before Sasuke launches Kirin, That wouldn't mean he could sever the connection. Naruto would have to actually aim for the lightning in Sasuke's hand and hope that Sasuke simply doesn't move or simply launch it right then. FRS isn't that fast. We've seen it dodged several times before and Sasuke has the advantage of the Sharingan which would give him forewarning.

[kkck]

The way I see it, kirin should win this one. I mean, this is the power naruto can muster vs the power of actual lightning. Wind has elemental advantage but the sheer amount of power behind kirin seems overly superior. It's like saying that because water has advantage over fire you can beat itachi's fire jutsu with a regular water gun.

[Naruffy]

I think the justu's are even because they both have their advantages and disadvantages. FRS is quicker to produce and can be used more than once, meanwhile Kirin does more damage, can only be used once and takes longer to set up. If this is based on them clashing, then Naruto would get skewered by the explosion, but I took this thread as which is the more powerful jutsu. If somehow they where to clash, I think it would be similar to a collision between Rasengan and Chidori, in which they'd negate each other. Just because Kirin leaves more obvious signs of damage doesn't mean it's the more powerful jutsu.

[Rikudou King]

Kirin can be used more then once. Just like how Naruto has to return to Sage Mode and make three clones after every second FRS, Sasuke simply needs to recreate the storm which doesn't take that long.

As for them negating each other, I doubt it. Kirin isn't like Chidori. It's power is greatly increased by the addition of natural lightning. And causing far more destruction is a sign of it being stronger. That's the way it has been in every other case so far. We saw how much damage the FRS did without natural energy to hold it together and even if we doubled the size it still wouldn't do as much destruction.

[kkck]

^Agreed, only the biju bomb has actually caused as much destruction as kirin so far. I still think FRS vs kirin would be like putting out an all blown forest fire with a water gun.... It's just too big for FRS. If naruto could pull it off with biju chakra then things would be interesting though.

[NAM61]

kishi classified both the 50 percent frs and the kirin as S class in the databook. he did not add nothing extra because it used real lightning. and the complete frs should be over an s class or high s class. so i still go with the completes frs over kirn until kishi states the kirin is much better because it uses real lightning.

[Rikudou King]

The rankings only go up to S rank. And we were told that using real lightning made Kirin on a completely different level then a normal technique of the same kind.

[Jammin]

Don't be fooled by hyperbole.

One minute Amaterasu is supposed to be inescapable then the Raikage dodges it like a freakin' softball.

Electricity is Electricity. In the extremely unlikely event that Rasen-Shuriken and Kirin collide(mainly because i don't think we will ever see Kirin again) i think Rasenshuriken would overcome it. Sure Kirin is a little different than your average Raiton but it's still electricity and wind beats electricity supposedly. Rasenshuriken is by all accounts the most powerful wind element technique in the world that we are aware of.

Bottom line for me though is that i think Kirin was a one time plot jutsu(which failed) Kishi used to allow Sasuke's fight with Itachi to look a bit more legitimate than it otherwise would have. It supposedly requires specific meteorological conditions, that are well beyond Sasuke's control with his current skill set.

Simply put, i would not be in the least surprised if we never see Kirin again.

----------------------------

Even if we do. Just think about what Sasuke had to work with when he used Kirin the first time. He had a forest fire of Amaterasu(courtesy of Itachi), a temperate climate, a cloudy day, plenty of time to pull off the technique itself(thanks to the fact that Itachi was never trying to beat Sasuke in the first place), and a clear line of sight to the target.

The nature or the technique makes it impossible in cold climate. Impossible in a dry climate. Impossible on a clear day. Impossible indoors.

Now while i realize that Kirin doesn't make rational sense from a meteorological standpoint. If i suspend that portion of a reality and play by Kishimoto's rules. Kirin would likely not necessarily be as powerful as it was against Itachi ever again, because factors outside Sasuke's control were what made it so strong. If there was no amaterasu forest fire, the Kirin might have come down at about the size of a large cat.

Just because Sasuke reaches to they sky doesn't mean he can pull down the same hammer of thunder he did on Itachi. How powerful Kirin is should be directly related to how much energy is in the thunder cloud, which is not something Sasuke has all that much control over.

[Rikudou King]

I don't think it's just hyperbole. We actually saw the destructive power of it, Similar to the destruction a Biju blast does. The only other techniques that have done such damage is Deva Path's Chou Shinra Tensei and Deidara's suicidal C0, Both which takes a toll on the user's life. Well the reason Ee was able to dodge Amaterasu was made perfectly clear and didn't really take away from the actual technique.

Anyhow, Electricity isn't simply electricity in this case. The whole nature cycle and counterbalance is based on chakra beating chakra. But in the case of Kirin, There's little chakra for the FRS to act upon. The heat of Amaterasu didn't make Kirin more powerful, It simply sped up the time it took to form the clouds. As far as we've seen, What Sasuke's does doesn't have an impact of the power of Kirin.

Now on that note, There is a good possibility that Sasuke can both use Kirin without changing the weather, Which would make a direct confrontation between it and FRS possible. But then comes the argument of how the techniques could even hit each other with the difference in speed and delivery.

[chilibun]

@Rikudou King

The element balance, imo, is more of a natural law of Narutoverse and not just law of chakra jutsus. A suiton jutsu produced water is no different than natural water, mokuton trees are the same as natural trees, and etc. Some things just can't be rationalized in a fictional world.

A rasenshuriken would have the same elemental advantage over kirin as it does over a chidori. That said, we have to consider the power level of the jutsu. Just because a jutsu has elemental advantage doesn't mean it automatically beats it. You can't put out a forest fire with a water gun. In this case, the amount of power in a Kirin (at least a well powered one like in the Itachi fight) far exceeds that of a rasenshuriken produced by human chakra.

The power of Kirin should also depend on the level of charge in the thunder clouds. More clouds, more charge, hence more power. To rationalize this even further, all Kirin is is the ability to direct charges. If Sasuke rubs his feet on a rug, he can probably produce enough static electricity to shoot a kirin out of his fingertips, though it would be very weak. Afterall, all lightning is is static electricity.

So, the power potential of Kirin is higher but is much more difficult to control as it requires outside forces. A peak Kirin would be more powerful than any Rasenshuriken produced by human chakra. A rasenshuriken is a much more practical jutsu though.

[M3J]

Who says kirin would need a long set up or whatever? That was when Sasuke created the environment for kirin. What if the environment is already set up? Maybe Sasuke can use kirin more than once.

I think kirin would win though... there's no raiton chakra involved so chakra nature is not involved here... not for kirin anyway so its weakness to wind wouldn't exist.

[DementedKirby]

There has to be thunderclouds for Sasuke to use Kirin. He was able to create them in his fight with Itachi. Naruto just needs two clones, which he can make lickitisplit. That's it. If Sasuke were to fight Naruto on a day with clear skies and no way to generate clouds, he's screwed. No kirin.

[Rikudou King]

Why wouldn't Sasuke be able to create the clouds on a clear day? That was apparently the point of him using his Katon in the sky, To generate the right weather he needed. And that didn't take very long to do.

[Naruffy]

Sasuke need's to shoot a good enough amount of fireballs into the air to create the clouds required for Kirin. Then there's the time it takes for the clouds themselves to form and for the thunder to start. Kirin's ideal situation is when Sasuke's opponent is above him . If not then he's just leaving himself open for attack and he won't be given the time or space to set up the justu. If Sasuke's used it once and has to use it again then he has to repeat the process. Sasuke could probably produce Kirin in any weather. He just has to produce more fireballs to heat up the atmosphere which would take longer. FRS is much simpler and quicker to produce, even if it can be dodged.