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Many assume that Ichigo beat Zaraki and Byakuya but got owned three times by espadas and therefore SS captains are no match for Ulquiorra and other espadas.
I, however, don't think this is a true assumption because Ichigo didn't have a clear win against neither Zaraki nor Byakuya.
1- Kenpachi: It seemed like Zaraki sole reason for fighting Ichigo was the satisfaction of fighting against a an opponent stronger than his underlings. Zaraki was basically turned on by the amount of reiatsu radiating from Ichigo....heck, he even let Ichigo slice him a few times to enjoy the feeling of fighting against someone who can actually wound him. And what techniques were used in that fight? Zaraki asked for a one all-reiatsu-out decisive clash and despite Zangetsu lending his power to Ichigo who already has a ridiculously high reiatsu, Zaraki was the last to fall of the two. Had Zaraki not been seeking power clash and fought Ichigo the same way he fought Tousen, Ichigo would've been toast but again thanks to Zaraki's over excitement.
2-Byakuya: Ichigo never beat him. Byakuya let his guard down at the beginning of the fight, then Ichigo was all worn out from blocking ZanponZakura and at the end the still-fresh Shirosaki comes out and delivers a sudden attack at Byakuya. Regardless of all of that, Byakua left the battle ground on his feet while Ichigo couldn't get up. Why did Byakua leave and not finish Ichigo off? maybe because his Zanpakuto was worn out or because he was emotionally worn out from fighting so much against someone who was -after all- trying to protect his sister.
3-Ichigo has to go vizard when fighting espadas but he dosen't when fighting captains: I don't know how many times I have to repeat that Ichigo hasn't learned how to fight with his banaki as good as other experienced captains but he is improving there for sure. Take chapter 279 for example, he went head to head with GJ by using his bankai only and the only reason he pulled his mask was to deflect the king cero shot by GJ. If Ichigo didn't have to protect Orihime and Nell, he could've just dodged cero while in bankai only.
So basically, I believe captains are not weaker than espadas. If someone has different opinion or can add to this then please do let me hear what you guys think.
Ichigo now, compared to how he was in SS, is a huge difference in the way he fights. I would give Ichigo the match hands down in both against Kenpachi and against Byakuya.
I think the current Espada right now could deal out the Captains for the most part. Though I would argue 1st, 8th, and 13th squad captains can hold their own against the Espada.
But there is no doubt in my mind that once Aizen has 10 Vast Lords for his Espada, Soul Society is done for. This is probably where the Vizard will come in, if not before.
I agree with you both. Yes, Yama-jii, Kyoraku and Ukitake can hold their own, but I think the latter's tuberculosis might get the better of him if he fights. But Ichigo not really defeating Byakuya? That is debatable, in my opinion.
Well, they said a Vasto Lorde is stronger than a captain, and an arrancar is stronger than it's hollow base, so that would make the Vasto Lorde Espada stronger than a captain, yes. Although, I imagine an Adjustas is at an SS captain's level. I can see Yamamoto, Kyoraku, and Ukitake all defeating Espada at least around 6-10, maybe even 5. All together, they maybe can beat up to 2nd.
the most the SS captains can do it take on the adjuchas arankaru. they would not stand a chance against the vastorode arankaru, not even yama-ji. that's as far as they can go, imo.
I can see why you guys have faith in Yamamoto since he have the most powerful and ancient fire based Zanpakotu and he challenged the two most experienced captains at once
I can see why you also have faith in Shunsui and Ukitake because they are the most experienced captains.
But why rule Soi Fong out? she can rival Yoruichi with her speed and her bankai is really powerful...hit an espada twice in the same spot and they will be finished.
And didn't Hitsugaya beat Luppi? why underestimate him now?
Most importantly, why think so little of Zaraki and Byakuya? The blades storm that Tousen shot towards Zaraki wasn't enough to make him even kneel....here is a scary thought..Zaraki coming to good terms with his Zanpakuto. And Byakuya!! He actually left walking after he fought Ichigo...imagine Byakuya using a combination of flash steps and Zanbonzakura at the same (which he didn't do in his fight against Ichigo) ...he will be invincible
Heck even Mayuri can pull tricks if he have enough data about espadas.
About the Vato Lordes, there isn't enough evidence that any of the espadas is a VL ...as a matter of fact, it looks like the power levels between the top dogs is close which explains Noitora's obsession with proving that he's the strongest. I don't know how SS will face the VLs but I am talking about the current espadas. I believe that SS's main problem isn't how powerful the current espadas are but the fact that they are understaffed in the captains department. However, Urahara and Yoruichi are planning on getting involved in the war and we all saw how Urahara was ready to fight Ulquiorra and Yoruichi bitch slapped Yammi without a weapon! We don't really know how powerful Isshin is but Urahara seemed to respect his powers.
Last edited by Silhouette; July 01, 2007 at 07:51 PM.
let's look at it this way judging from the fact that Grimmjou arm got cut off by Tousen who isn't exactly the strongest capatain and the fact that Ichigo's skill level is Vice-Captain at best I think we count them out before we have even have seen all they got so let's just wait and see
In the end, it's really hard to tell how strong the captains are to the espada. We really haven't seen what they're capable of. Yama-ji's shikai for one might be able to take on the lower half of the espada. (Especially if a seated officer like Rukia can kill the 9th espada...) In any case, if the Captains are so weak in front of the espada why wait until the "crumbling treasure" awakens??
Well, i believe the captains are at same level as the adjucas arancar but would lose to VLs...Didnt hisugaya said the VL is stronger than captains? Maybe Yama would stand up aainst a Vl but the other captains should be able to old their own against the 5-10 espada...Maybe tag team against 1 to 5.
Grimmjow is more or less Ichigo's level. The only captains that could be stronger than Ichigo are Yamamoto, Shunsui, and Ukitake, and it is possible that he is actually stronger than Shunsui and Ukitake already. If espada 6 is stronger than all but 3 or less captains, that's pretty bad for the captains.
Ichigo bankai is still young, going by Ulquiorra's comment, it's still possible for it to "mature" (not another level of release, just diff techniques) Hitsugaya's bankai, while young like ichigo's was able to fend of a number six (i.e. Luppi) means that the older captains can do still do alot of damage against the espada. On a off note I still believe Unohana's strength is underestimated as Aizen didn't confront even tho she was about to reveal his plans to everyone and the 11th squad (excluding Zaraki and Yachiru) are terrified of her. We still have see how Shinsui and Ukitake compare to the espada let alone Yama-ji.
Again no one's answered my question: "In any case, if the Captains are so weak in front of the espada why wait until the "crumbling treasure" awakens??"
Perhaps Aizen wants to have a perfect army rather than one that isn't perfect.Originally Posted by tidal_alchemist87
Aizen also factors in help from outside sources (ie. Vizard). He wants to go as powerful as possible.
Well, so far he's pretty much done that, although comparing Ryuken to captains is hard to do, since he's a Quincy, and we haven't seen all that much of his power, although since he defeated those arrancar in one shot, like Isshin, they're probably around the same level. The Vaizard, however, could probably make bitches out of the vast majority of the Espada. I imagine Shinji alone could beat Ulquiorra.