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Thread: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member white silver's Avatar
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    The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    [b][font=verdana][color=green][size=1]Yes I do know there is a thread regarding Martial Arts, but it only seems to be focused on personal experience of training. This is an actual discussion whether whether these so-called fighting arts are actually beneficial in "REAL-LIFE" combat. So I'll start with this:

    What do you think of the "Alive" system?

    Alive meaning that the martial arts system is no longer "dead" seeing that they repeat the same patterns over and over again. The "Alive" system is based on practictioners who don't co-operate with each other giving a simulation to what a street or what would happen in an actual fight. With that said, the adrenaline rush would either stop you from remembering your techniques or just keep you dumb wondering what to do next. It is because of this, many countless of so-called "Black-belts" may have won in tournaments but get their ass kicked by punks who don't even know any Martial Arts. What are your opinion on this? Do you have any experience regarding this! How and what would you do to improve the Martial Arts system. DISCUSS DISCUSS....

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    Re: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    that is why a technique whether a lock, throw, kick, must be trained thousands and thousands of times so it becomes burned into your mind. that way in a situation of danger, it will come naturally without even the need of thinking what to do.

    so those so called black belts, even if they know a lot, without die hard training, they can get pounded in the streets.

    im a yellow belt, i already know many dozens of locks for a whole bunch of situations yet there´s only one of them that i am able to use in a flash and without thinking. so as you said, in a situation of danger with the adrenaline and all, i´d forget them all except for that one that is animality carved into me.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member white silver's Avatar
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    Re: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    [b][font=verdana][color=green][size=1]Yes, a technique should be practicised multiple times in order to get "the idea" on how it is performed. But what about the condition and environment your learning the technique from? Is it just drills? In real fights, the enemy is not going to stand there to let you do the technique, so even if you mastered your technique, it's very unlikely that the move you mastered would come into play. Unless it has something to do with Jujitsu or other ground fighting martial arts since many fights are taken to the ground. How would you improve your training regimen in order to cover up the holes within the martial arts you're training at?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conan's Avatar
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    Re: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    well, like many things martial arts evolved through time and one of the ways is it is now understood that raw technique cant do mucb sometimes, some martial arts have what is called mental training, some people think its magic and push it, but most of it is working on coordination and maintaining your calm in a battle and adopting and coping using your senses, some of these martial arts are the new japanese shintaido which is based on japanese martial arts but concentrates on the mental training and detecting the killer intent of the opponent, another one is russian martial art called systema, it is quite unique and you will ahve to read about it to understand how it works, but it is very practical and tested.
    other methods of making a martial art realistic is sticking flowing drills to your phsyche like they do in phillipino martial arts and indonesian,(escrima and silat) the amount of sparring those people do is enormous compared to other martial arts that the strikes become like a second nature, once they feel the force of the opponnent against them it just triggers the flow of their movements which makes those martial arts quite effective, wing chun also works that way too.

    I hope this helped answer a few of your questions.
    "Fighting was the only thing I was good at,but at least I always fought for what I believed in",Solid Snake and Gray Fox.
    watch some of the worlds best martial artists show their abilities in this thread http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5582

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    Re: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    [b][font=verdana][color=green][size=1]Watch this:

    Military vs. MMA

    Knife Defense

    Alive Martial Arts

    Your points?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conan's Avatar
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    Re: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    thanks for the videos kunai jutsu, I am going to comment on them one by one,
    first: I think he is mistaken in this one, the two methods mentioned in the tape are krav maga and systema, first of all krav maga was actually developed from the streets, but the developer was a soldier who was asked by the army to develop a method for them, he was a soldier but his fighting experience comes from the streets, you can make sure of that by doing some searching on google or otherwise, systema on the other hand was developed from ancient battlefield russian martial arts, but it was used for the army and the spetsnaz russian special forces, I did mention in the first post that their training methods are unique and they have been questioned about by MMA fighters and other martial artists, heres a video,http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk/.
    second and third:those were some good videos I have to say, eventhough I disagreed with the first one I totally agree with the second and third, his theories about knives are quite important and he prooved it with the numbers, he even had had the famous pual vunak demonstrate what he thought, I guess thats enough for me.(paul vunak is a trainer for th us navy seals and one of dan inosantos first students).
    the third one was really good, the mans experience in both fighting and teaching martial arts has come up with his methods, wich are great, I think its really good in both theory and practice and serious martial artists should look back at their training methods to improve themselves further in both training and helping their students to have better chances of survival on the streets, one last point is that this proves also that what ever style you learn the instructor is a key thing, if he isnt good enough then what he teaches isnt, I think in these modern days one could ask the top martial artists about what their training methods are and if they are done right, of course it should be done with politeness and respect to both the asked and the questioned.

    there you go, thats what I think, thanks for the videos and hope this helped answer your questions.
    "Fighting was the only thing I was good at,but at least I always fought for what I believed in",Solid Snake and Gray Fox.
    watch some of the worlds best martial artists show their abilities in this thread http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5582

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member white silver's Avatar
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    Re: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    [b][font=verdana][color=green][size=1]It seems that you've enjoyed the videos. Indeed, I also disagree with the first video since in mainly focused on UFC tournaments. They think that if you topped the UFC, not only is your Martial Arts good but it is also tries to eliminate the "so-called" unnecessary MA, for example stand ups (Karate, Taekwondo, Kung fu, Krav Maga etc. etc.) In other words, the video is trying to "mock" other MA, saying that it is completely unaffective. Not only that, they didn't notice they are contradicting themselves in the video. Why is it so?

    They are right in one thing, is that many fights end up in the ground. And they show multiple opponents attacking a person in the ground (they're trying to prove that when you're on THE GROUND, you're defenseless). And what do we have for the UFC? Suppose this BJJ (or ground fighter) fights someone on the ground, eventually some pals would gang up on on the BJJ fighter, so ground fighting is USELESS against multiple opponents, but great in the UFC.

    I totally agree on the 2nd video that no BS knife techniques would save you without some wounds.

    As for the third video, I like the idea of aliveness. BUT, he was wrong in one part. These so-called dead patterns aren't useless. One must learn how the techinque is done first before the alive training. Perfoming Aliveness doesn't allow the fighter to learn any technique at all, sure he's giving a simulation on what would happen. But he might just start a Fight Club and not a Martial Arts school. I know some Martial Artists who perform dead patterns but they managed to survive in fights, especially with multiple enemies (2 or 3). The main reason is that, after they know their techniques, they utilize it by taking it out to the streets (by being a bouncer would be the most legal way). They realize the effectiveness and the weakness of the techniques learned, that way this is just more effective than that ALIVENESS. The idea was good but in the wrong place.

    By the way conan, thanks for your comments, but this topic is just for discussion and not meant to end with Questions and answers only!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member conan's Avatar
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    Re: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    no problem, I like discussing this topic anyway, I agree with you too on the last bit, I mean you have to learn the technique in adead pattern then add aliveness, it all adds up the same way I think.

    well I am glad some one opened this discussion.
    I would like to hear other comments on this.
    "Fighting was the only thing I was good at,but at least I always fought for what I believed in",Solid Snake and Gray Fox.
    watch some of the worlds best martial artists show their abilities in this thread http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5582

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    Re: The Real, The Fake, Alive or Dead...... MARTIAL ARTS!!

    Is it not the type of training that martial artist recieve? If you training for competitions, you geared up to give legal shots, one punch ending the match, rules, etc, etc While in a street fight there may be two or three people attacking from all sides. thats been involved in many street fights before.

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