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Thread: Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

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    Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    what if old man zengetsu is the past 11th himself? it's not fully impossible Ichigo is known to draw people toward him. And it is said that reincarnation is possible in the universe of bleach.

    Further evidence of his 11th division/kenpachi connection could be in his motto when he went Shikai "Go Foward, Move Forward, Flee and you will age, hesitate and you will die." Sound excatly like something some one who loves battle would say and would make sense why he has made personal appearances in front of the previous 12th/2nd and Current 11th captain the only people who would know his face if they saw it hinting at a connection that we didn't know about in the past when we read bleach.
    Last edited by JioFreed666; April 17, 2008 at 12:54 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member someguy0830's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    A zanpakuto isn't a separate soul. Its the manifestation of its owner's power. The two are, for all intents are purposes, the same person. One just happens to be smarter in the ways of shinigami for whatever reason.

    All glory to the Hypnotoad!

    It is ridiculous to think that video games influence children. If Pac-Man affected kids born in the eighties, we should have a generation of teenagers who run around in darkened rooms and eat pills while listening to monotonous music.

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    It is a separate soul because they have to be synced in order to be used properly like Zangetsu said"You can't just except me to response the way you want me to just because you know my name" and if you don't call Hollow Ichigo a separate soul your seriously tripping because if you remember what he said before he disappeared the last time "if you let up for even a second with a second I'LL BECOME THE KING AND YOU WILL BECOME THE HORSE" if that's not signs of a separate soul I don't know what is and since it's one part of Zangetsu it means Zangetsu is a bunch of souls that stem from Ichigo and maybe not even from ichigo but reincarnated souls we don't know everything about bleach especially about ichigo and where his power both Shinigami and Hollow/Vizard or his father's power comes from.
    Last edited by JioFreed666; April 17, 2008 at 02:27 AM.

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    Zanpakutou are manifestations of shinigami's soul. Both Zangetsu and "Hollow Ichigo" are parts of Ichigo's soul. They have their personae, but they are still a part of one soul.

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    How many laws of what is normal in shinigami has Ichigo broken? answer me that please

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    How many laws of what is normal in shinigami has Ichigo broken? answer me that please
    1. Shinigami powers being transferred to a human (more Rukia's fault, but in the eyes of SS, Ichigo has some culpability as well)

    2. Invading the Seireitei

    3. Interfering with an execution

    4. Being a vizard

    He probably has broken more laws, but not all of the laws of SS have been given so far and I might have overlooked something.

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    I means more like along the lines of
    Him COMING BACK FROM BEING ALMOST TAKEN OVER BY A HOLLOW TWICE one of those times actually taking a full hollow form!!

    Him not only breaking the 10 year record for achieving Bankai but broke even what the original the set time he would do it in which was 2 days even thought we have no idea of his family history which a Byakuya said bankai is something only few shinigami are able to do even in that 10 year period

    Him not only beating two captain level shinigami only using bankai one out of the two times he did

    But the fact he has a huge Zanpakuto that he can wield almost as easily as any other Shinigami with a small one

    on top of that him bouncing back from having his spiritual power supposedly sealed forever

    He breaks alot of the norms of what is explained as a shinigami should and shouldn't be able to do.

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    I means more like along the lines of
    Him COMING BACK FROM BEING ALMOST TAKEN OVER BY A HOLLOW TWICE one of those times actually taking a full hollow form!!

    Him not only breaking the 10 year record for achieving Bankai but broke even what the original the set time he would do it in which was 2 days even thought we have no idea of his family history which a Byakuya said bankai is something only few shinigami are able to do even in that 10 year period

    Him not only beating two captain level shinigami only using bankai one out of the two times he did

    But the fact he has a huge Zanpakuto that he can wield almost as easily as any other Shinigami with a small one

    on top of that him bouncing back from having his spiritual power supposedly sealed forever

    He breaks alot of the norms of what is explained as a shinigami should and shouldn't be able to do.
    Okay. Ichigo has violated a lot of conventional wisdom. The topic of this thread is whether his zanpakutou spirit was a former captain of SS. Ichigo has broken conventions and done highly improbable things, but he is never actually done anything that defied what was defined to be absolutely true. Ichigo's zanpakutou spirit is a part of his own spirit and not a separate entity. That is something that is defined as being so.

    Zangetsu is a part of Ichigo and unless Ichigo was the former captain of the 11th division (which he was not), Zangetsu had no relation to the 11th division either.

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    It's hard to believe but I say that the zanpakuto are the powers manifested of the persons. Well to be exact, the shinigami powers. Even those powers has it's own characteristics. In rare cases such as Ikkaku, their manifested powers have opposite characteristics.

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    you have no proof disproving that ichigo wasn't the reincarnated ex-11th captain but I have no proof that he was or even zangetsu being another soul inside a sword that isn't really a manifestation of ichigo's soul. that's why it's called a theory and is better then some of these other ones that have been flying around and makes you think more of the twist Kubo might throw at us then just thinking of what might happen next because I don't think anyone really expected this gaiden arc to pop up right in them middle of a potentially huge fight that was about to happen with SS and HM's forces

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    you have no proof disproving that ichigo wasn't the reincarnated ex-11th captain but I have no proof that he was or even zangetsu being another soul inside a sword that isn't really a manifestation of ichigo's soul. that's why it's called a theory and is better then some of these other ones that have been flying around and makes you think more of the twist Kubo might throw at us then just thinking of what might happen next because I don't think anyone really expected this gaiden arc to pop up right in them middle of a potentially huge fight that was about to happen with SS and HM's forces
    isnt it about time you got youre facts and lore up to date? all youre theories are majorly flawed with wrong information.
    1. a zanpakatou is created in a way the user itself can easy wield it.
    2. we dont know anything about the previous captains YET
    Ichigo is originaly a human who are not supposed to have any shinigami powers (normaly they awaken when they are in SS), The only effective way urahara was to actualy endanger ichigo at such a lvl that his shinigami would need to jump in before they both died. The second time he got nearly taken over was a "side effect" from the first time, since it was also the intention of urahara to awaken hollow powers inside of ichigo.

    Quote Quote:
    Go Foward, Move Forward, Flee and you will age, hesitate and you will die
    cause ichigo does love to battle himself, the only thing is he tries to deny this fact by saying he only wants his powers to protect his friends. Shirosaki and many arrancter tried to actualy kick some sense in ichigo and i hope the nxt battle will~~.


    Quote Quote:
    Him not only beating two captain level shinigami only using bankai one out of the two times he did
    you wanna take in that ichigo actualy fought 4 captain level shinigami: Ikkaku (has bankai), Renji (nearly had bankai when they fought), Kenpachi (obvious), and byukuya. Ichigo came to SS on vice captain- captain level not on 4th officer seat, he only recieved only smal experience boosts during their fights (and bankai when training).

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    Quote Originally Posted by Richo View Post
    isnt it about time you got youre facts and lore up to date? all youre theories are majorly flawed with wrong information.
    1. a zanpakatou is created in a way the user itself can easy wield it.
    2. we dont know anything about the previous captains YET
    Ichigo is originaly a human who are not supposed to have any shinigami powers (normaly they awaken when they are in SS), The only effective way urahara was to actualy endanger ichigo at such a lvl that his shinigami would need to jump in before they both died. The second time he got nearly taken over was a "side effect" from the first time, since it was also the intention of urahara to awaken hollow powers inside of ichigo.
    1.It's a theory a theory can be disporven, have only part of the truth in them. Ichigo's Zapakuto was not obtained throught normal means and it's already been proven that Ichigo had the power of a shinigami before hand because he has the blood of Isshin we're not sure how excatly a person gets a real zanpakuto after they are done with the academy's souless ones and I'm not saying my theory is fact but saying infact that your understanding of the bleach universe is also a theory based on the little information we are given in each chapter
    2.refere to the first sentence of 1

    As for the Urahara thing it's theory especially the Hollow part since ichigo was suppose to change back before hand it was a side effect of urahara not being able to think it's possible to take control of your body after the mask is on and the holes in your chest which from urahara's expression when he saw ichigo take his body back over he was genuinely shocked. We're not sure how any of the other vizards became oneit was an accident like with ichigo or just some luck of the draw using Urahara's device


    Quote Quote:
    cause ichigo does love to battle himself, the only thing is he tries to deny this fact by saying he only wants his powers to protect his friends. Shirosaki and many arrancter tried to actualy kick some sense in ichigo and i hope the nxt battle will~~.
    Everyone loves battle but from what Zengetsu was saying he wanted Ichigo to let himself fully just give into constantly fighting for the sake of fighting which we know from watching ichigo due that one of two things happens he denys the feelings and trys to stop the fighting or hollow ichigo starts to take over


    Quote Quote:
    you wanna take in that ichigo actualy fought 4 captain level shinigami: Ikkaku (has bankai), Renji (nearly had bankai when they fought), Kenpachi (obvious), and byukuya. Ichigo came to SS on vice captain- captain level not on 4th officer seat, he only recieved only smal experience boosts during their fights (and bankai when training).
    Renji was pwned(get owned without harming the enemy) by the same captain ichigo owned(beat the enemy but got hurt) later renji wasn't captain level at that point. Ikkaku clearly wasn't at captains strength because while he did harm ichigo the biggest wound in that fight was above his eye but he still won to the point Ikkaku couldn't stand but Ichigo was walking so I don't count him as captain level either at that point. and didn't ichigo in fact fight Renji in the same day without medical treatment
    Last edited by JioFreed666; April 17, 2008 at 03:53 AM.

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    byakuya said something like "it takes atleast 10 years for 1 to be able to master bankai"

    has ichigo mastered his bankai?? HELL NO, not even close.

    i use to think zangetsu was his uncle (due to translation) but then again kubo hasnt realli given us ani clue to who zangetsu besides shirosaki n zangetsu = the same person

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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    Quote Originally Posted by gfire2 View Post
    byakuya said something like "it takes atleast 10 years for 1 to be able to master bankai"

    has ichigo mastered his bankai?? HELL NO, not even close.

    i use to think zangetsu was his uncle (due to translation) but then again kubo hasnt realli given us ani clue to who zangetsu besides shirosaki n zangetsu = the same person
    but Ichigo is mastering his pretty fast he's learned his special move already anyway Byakuya said something more along the lines of "it takes atleast 10 years for 1 to be able to master their zanpakuto to be able to reach the level of bankai" I got this translation from what Byakuya said when Ichigo pulled it off "Something that is held so scared that takes ten years to accomplish you go and sully it's name like it was just some little hump" he then gose on to diss ichigo's bankai for it's size since it is pretty much a long bladed zanpakuto that's all black

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member someguy0830's Avatar
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    Re: [Theory] Old man Zangetsu=last 11th captain

    Quote Originally Posted by JioFreed666 View Post
    Ichigo's Zapakuto was not obtained throught normal means and it's already been proven that Ichigo had the power of a shinigami before hand because he has the blood of Isshin we're not sure how excatly a person gets a real zanpakuto after they are done with the academy's souless ones and I'm not saying my theory is fact but saying infact that your understanding of the bleach universe is also a theory based on the little information we are given in each chapter
    Use periods.

    Now, point by point, we know what a zanpakuto is. It's the user's power given form. Nothing more. This is a fact, one that does not change simply because someone stuck a shinigami car battery to Ichigo, so to speak, to get his powers moving. All it means is Ichigo got a boost. The sword is still formed in the same manner.

    Let's move to the soul within a soul point. It cannot be the soul of another person. Why? Because Ichigo is already a soul. He can't have another full-fledged soul, just a facet of it, his hollow and sword.

    You're fruitlessly trying to blur the lines for no apparent reason. Ichigo likes to fight, which is why his sword, hollow, and even inner monologue Zaraki encourage it. It has nothing to do with a second soul in him.

    All glory to the Hypnotoad!

    It is ridiculous to think that video games influence children. If Pac-Man affected kids born in the eighties, we should have a generation of teenagers who run around in darkened rooms and eat pills while listening to monotonous music.

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