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Thread: Is Naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    There are a few individuals at the top without bloodline abilities. The current Kages have only one individual amongst their ranks with an inherited bloodline ability. Gai has been pretty impressive recently. Nagato, Tobi and Itachi are the only members of Akatsuki confirmed to be bloodline ability users. The others managed to excel without such abilities. The Hokages are pretty low on bloodline abilities, only Hashirama utilises an inherent ability. So some people worked with less. Of course, Hashirama's ability and the Sharingan are front and center at the moment, and their users are ridiculous. If the likes of Madara hadn't been revived, and there was less reason for Naruto to get such a ridiculous boost after controlling Kurama, fighters without bloodline abilities would be able to compete.
    Kekkai Toura is basically kekkai toura - it is still blood related ... same with Gaara IMO I think he is using some sort of field same as his father - jiton ... thus there are 3 kages with blood ability
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

  2. #17
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Actually it was never confirmed that Jinton is a bloodline ability.
    Onooki and Muu aren't related and they both can use Jinton. Muu even taught Onooki that. All thats necessary for Jinton seems to be able to use the 3 elements required for that (Katon, Doton and Fuuton). So basically everyone with those natures could use Jinton.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighty View Post
    Actually it was never confirmed that Jinton is a bloodline ability.
    Onooki and Muu aren't related and they both can use Jinton. Muu even taught Onooki that. All thats necessary for Jinton seems to be able to use the 3 elements required for that (Katon, Doton and Fuuton). So basically everyone with those natures could use Jinton.
    No, not necessarily. If the ability to use multiple elements granted an ability to unlock a Kekkei Genkai, every Jounin level ninja would develop one. Kakashi would definitely develop one, as an instance.

  4. #19
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Well just maybe it is just a matter of training?
    Look, as i understand Bloodline Limits (like Yoton for example) its just like that its that you have both fire and earth as your basic element and can mix it cause you have talent in that area.
    So the question is: What makes you able to mold 2 elements?
    1) your DNA says you can do it
    2) You can do it cause your DNA helps you doing it

    There is a slight difference. So i want to say that a ninja like Kakashi could maybe train a year with the shadow clone triaining (assuming he had the chakra capacity) why shouldn't he find a way to mold Raiton and Suiton to create Ranton?
    My hypothesis is that the Bloodline limit simply makes it easier, or lets say common to be able to mold 2 natures.

    Assuming that this is right, everyone with Fire, Earth and Wind could learn Jinton.

    Another example: When Kakashi met Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura he put them into groups of what type of person they are.
    Sakura was a genjutsu type, Sasuke ninjutsu type and Naruto probobly is a mixture out of taiijutsu and ninjutsu.
    So concentrating on Sakura her genjutsu ability or her talent in that area is her "Bloodline limit" (I know that the term is not correct in this situation but i'll use it to make my point). That means that Sakura is talented in genjutsu and chakra control.
    Thats also why she could master the tree climbing exercise far faster than Naruto and Sasuke.
    But they could do it aswell, so maybe it just works the same with Bloodline limits.
    Those who have it, can use it, those who don't need effort to maybe get to it (hypothesis).
    Btw: What supports my point here, is that Kakashi can use Sharingan, although not having an Uchiha body, yes it has side effects, but why shouldn't another ninja being able to use a Bloodline ability with more chakra drain (and im excluding the cheating of implanting cells in your body ).

  5. #20
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Well, I got it, but basically what are you saying tells me that anyone should have a chance to unlock a Sharingan or Byakugan. There is no distinction between the doujutsu based Kekkei Genkai and the others, which makes it more difficult to base a theory (=

    And it also means Naruto should be able to use all the ninjutsu in the world in a short amount of time. He can go through nature transformation training with Tajuu Kage Bunshin and master all elements first, and then, he could proceed with the combinations. Kakashi said Kekkei Genkai techniques could not be copied (also hidden techniques like Nara's shadow binding) with his Sharingan, so, there must be some sort of limitation, but it's tough to figure out what sort of limitation it would be.

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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Well i think for Bloodline Limits like eye techniques or the Kaguya ability those go with inheritance.

    But think about it for short time:
    Via training your eye can train to see through genjutsu (Deidara did this) --> Sharingan ability
    You can copy the movements of your opponent when you watch him (but you will need much longer) ---> Sharingan ability
    the list goes on, so basically the basic Sharingan is just a super improved eye that enhances the normal abilities by much - and it can see through and cast genjutsu.

    I want to say: The way is not that long. With MS its ofc a total different story.

    Well to the question that Naruto could learn all elements. I would not say that as it was confirmed that many jouunin can use 3 elements, but mostly not more. More than 3 would be an outstanding trait.
    Lets stick to Kakashis statement that Bloodlinelimit techs cannot be copied.
    He said that when he fought Haku iirc, but we know that the Ice Element consists of Wind and Water.
    Kakashi can use water, but has no access to wind, so its obvious that he can't create ice as one thing is missing.
    But we never saw Kakashi saying that about a Bloodlinelimit that consists of 2 natures he can use.
    An example would be Ranton.
    There's no evidence that Kakashi could not learn it.
    How? Welll Kakashi took some time to complete Chidori and it took Nartuo a great amout of clones to complete Rasenshuriken.
    And there was only one element involved. Add another element and its a different story.

    Deducing from this my hypothesis is:

    Inherited Bloodline Limit Users (such as Haku) can use their Bloodline Limit because their body from their birth is used to mixing those elements. "Self learning" Bloodline Limit users (such as Kakashi, mastering Sharingan better and better over the tme, another example is unfortunetly not existent (yet)) have to adapt their bodys to the ability and if they did they can use the technique (I think that Onooki and Muu are examples for that!).

  7. #22
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    In the current manga, the Rikudou represents "complete power." He represents the purest combination of the highest levels of Yin and Yang (Spiritual/Physical) which make up Ninjutsu and apparently life itself (via Creation of All Things jutsu). In other words, his power is the pinnacle, and also symbolic of those Yin/Yang elements.

    The halves of the Rikudou bloodline (Uchiha / Senju) hold the powers which, combined, allow one to reach his level. I don't think of it so much as "You have to be a Senju or Uchiha to compete", but more like "Uchiha = Highest Spiritual, Senju = Highest Physical".

    For someone like an Uchiha, the most logical power-up is to enhance their Physical Energies to augment their powers and negate the downsides to their abilities (example: Shisui's eye can be used more than once, Obito won't go blind spamming Kamui, Danzou can wield more Sharingan as a non-Uchiha, and Madara can awaken the Rinnegan). An Uchiha doesn't have to train to learn new techniques, mostly because their eye represents the knowledge of ninja techniques. It's cheesy, but the point of the Sharingan is that, beyond being able to understand/copy techniques, it contains techniques that are a manifestation of the user's mental energies. In other words, it makes more sense for them to simply master their Sharingan and augment their body to better utilize the Sharingan. The theme at work is that characters who intend to replicate the Rikudou's power do so by achieving a balanced "Yin/Yang" state of the highest level.

    I wish there was a more creative element at work than "Hashirama Cells" to represent Senju powers. If there were more Senju clan members with significant power levels (and thus bodies to control/transplant), it might be more interesting... but the point of Hashirama Cells is that they represent essentially raw Life Force. That's why they turn into friggin living trees... somehow Hashirama is unique in that his chakra emits raw healing/revitalizing/empowering qualities, and implementing his cells provides the same boost to the user's body. I don't think it would work in the same way if one were to transplant, say, Kisame's cells, even though Kisame was a chakra beast in his own right. Hashirama's power is more like a "Tree of Life."

    Kishi is simply addicted to Yin/Yang metaphors, and the best way to try and appreciate his current plotlines is to view everything in that context and try to accept it... Hashirama doesn't just represent "an overpowered Super Saiyan 3 Hokage who magically bestows power-ups to everything he touches", but rather "Raw Life Force that keeps growing when cultivated because it's the pinnacle of the Rikudou's Yang energy."

    I don't think any bloodline abilities besides Senju/Uchiha are getting too much spotlight; it's just how the Rikudou's bloodline works, and people who obsess over him (Madara, and thus Obito) will go to any lengths to cultivate those powers.

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  9. #23
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    It's not so much bloodline limits specifically, but unique abilities in general. It's basically been made that without some sort of ability, you can't be awesome. Gai and Minato somewhat are the only top tier ninjas around that aren't reliant on some special ability or technique to be considered a powerhouse.

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  11. #24
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    I agree with Rikudou King. Amongst the Uchiha, there are particular jutsu that place certain ninja above other Uchiha (Kamui pretty much is far and away superior to all MS jutsu). And Hashirama was the only Senju with Mokuton. And amongst all the ninja who don't have kekkei genkai/touta, they all have one outrageously hax unique ability that places them above the average ninja (Raikage's bijuu class stamina, Gaara's sand control, Minato's Hiraishin).

    I also love how everyone keeps saying Sasuke's nothing without the Sharingan, when he was the best ninja of his generation before even having a Sharingan, lol.

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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I agree with Rikudou King. Amongst the Uchiha, there are particular jutsu that place certain ninja above other Uchiha (Kamui pretty much is far and away superior to all MS jutsu). And Hashirama was the only Senju with Mokuton. And amongst all the ninja who don't have kekkei genkai/touta, they all have one outrageously hax unique ability that places them above the average ninja (Raikage's bijuu class stamina, Gaara's sand control, Minato's Hiraishin).

    I also love how everyone keeps saying Sasuke's nothing without the Sharingan, when he was the best ninja of his generation before even having a Sharingan, lol.
    Kimimaro is pretty much from the same generation (Kekkei Genkai though) and Id say that the sound nins would mop the floor with him without his Sharingan. You also have Gaara, Naruto, Neji and many others that would at that time have beaten him (Rock Lee). Sasuke may have been nr 1 in the academy but many could beat him. They though got to use their full register of technique, saying that Sasuke would suck without his Sharingan is like saying Neji would suck without the Byakugan.
    All of them are a lot worse without their unique skill
    Meh

  13. #26
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Neither Sasuke nor Neji would have sucked without their respective bloodline limit though. That's just a common misconception most people have in desperate attempt to make Sasuke look bad when manga has already established both as geniuses. Hell, Sasuke was considered a genius before he even got his Sharingan, as ninjabot mentioned.

    Anyway, as mentioned by Rikudou King, I think, the manga is too focused on abilities of ninja, as well as kekkei genkai. You have Naruto's Uzumaki abilities/kekkei genkai, all the surviving Uchiha being able to use Sharingan, the Tsuchikage being able to use Jinton, and etc. Feels like there's a contest or something between who has the better bloodline abilities.

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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Spoiler show


    24h rule - UB
    Last edited by Uchiha_Blood; February 20, 2013 at 04:18 PM.

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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by sanadan
    Kimimaro is pretty much from the same generation (Kekkei Genkai though) and Id say that the sound nins would mop the floor with him without his Sharingan.
    I'm referring to the Rookie 9. All born at the same time. Naruto and Sasuke were like... 13 when Kimimaro was alive. He was 15. And before you say "two years doesn't mean much", remember how much Sasuke improved from part 1 to part 2".

    Quote Quote:
    You also have Gaara, Naruto, Neji and many others that would at that time have beaten him (Rock Lee). Sasuke may have been nr 1 in the academy but many could beat him. They though got to use their full register of technique, saying that Sasuke would suck without his Sharingan is like saying Neji would suck without the Byakugan.
    All of them are a lot worse without their unique skill
    All of Team Gai had an extra year of experience over the rest of the rookie 9, being held back from attempting the Chuunin exams so that they'd all be extra prepared.

  16. #29
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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    Kimimaro is pretty much from the same generation (Kekkei Genkai though) and Id say that the sound nins would mop the floor with him without his Sharingan. You also have Gaara, Naruto, Neji and many others that would at that time have beaten him (Rock Lee). Sasuke may have been nr 1 in the academy but many could beat him. They though got to use their full register of technique, saying that Sasuke would suck without his Sharingan is like saying Neji would suck without the Byakugan.
    All of them are a lot worse without their unique skill
    Kimimaro perhaps, but Sasuke was shown capable of fighting the Sound Four well enough without his Sharingan. He nearly beat Gaara, did beat Naruto, and after some training got on par with Lee. Neji is the only real question and that's pretty much due to his abilities to shut Sasuke outright down.

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    Re: its naruto becoming too focused on bloodline abilities?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Kimimaro perhaps, but Sasuke was shown capable of fighting the Sound Four well enough without his Sharingan. He nearly beat Gaara, did beat Naruto, and after some training got on par with Lee. Neji is the only real question and that's pretty much due to his abilities to shut Sasuke outright down.
    with cursed seal though

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