Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

[badluckartist]

All I'm saying is that I MYSELF and already done with it. Just drop the shoes that we all know are coming and let's move on. I'm ready for this whole war arc to be over, and the way things are going? We're pretty much staring at the entirety of 2013 being dedicated to wrapping up the war arc. We've got this whole Sauske Vision Quest thing to finish... Then we've got Harashima versus ET Madara... Then we've got Obito & Kakashi... Then we've got the Former Kages versus ???...

Yeah, I sympathize with your impatience of the war arc as a whole- that's totally justified. But like Tobi's fireside chit-chat and Jiraiya's recollection of his past with the Mist orphans, I'm judging this as its own little integrated arc. Plus, I'm channeling that impatience into relief that we're away from Tobi and Naruto and that whole wreck right now.

All I want is for this war to end ASAP, and if we have to rush through the backstory then so be it.

One of those fundamental things that I just disagree on. I think the story before with 15 chapters devoted to Tobi should have been reduced to 2 or 3 and this story with the kage should have started months ago. It deserves its own time in the limelight regardless of how lame the war has been.

[redred]

I gotta say, I felt worse about Hashiramas little brother dying then I did when Neji was killed.
The way he stood there crying, holding up a kunai while surrounded, just heartbreaking.
I wish the story was always this dark, or at least on more occasions.
I really am enjoying the flashback so far, don't see how anyone can find them boring. Right now the past is more interesting than the war.

[Razh]

All I want to see now is Minato fighting again, because he's cool and has an interesting fighting style (compared to large scale super jutsu that dominate current fights) and Tobirama because we didn't really see him fight much.
Hashirama is covered in this flashback. Hiruzen could show more now that he's a zombie, without limitations of old age he had when he was alive. Come on Kishi, you at least have to give us that much.

This flashback shouldn't take more than 3 chapters. Anything more would be too much.

[Invader]

One of those fundamental things that I just disagree on. I think the story before with 15 chapters devoted to Tobi should have been reduced to 2 or 3 and this story with the kage should have started months ago.

Oh - I have no disagreement on that point. The Tobi backstory was also interminable and drawn out. It should have been done in 1 chapter or two if you really wanted to lavish a lot of time on it. For it to have taken so long was a waste of time.

But while the Madara & Harashima chapters may be less painfully awful, I'm still wanting them to be over in 1 or 2 chapters. But hey - if I were the guy in charge then this manga would have cut out a whole bunch of stuff so what do I know? I'm a ruthless butcher when it comes to editing, and even things that others consider 'classics' I would often take a wholesale buzzsaw to. Even authors that I really like (such as Tolkien) sometimes drone on too long and would benefit from a good editing in order to keep the pacing brisk.

That's a fault of mine, perhaps. I must have tight, brisk editing or I am going to be flipping pages. Authors such as JK Rowling and Robert Jordan set my teeth on edge. I know there are readers that love it when a writer takes 100 pages to say almost nothing. I am not one of those people. And in a visual medium like a manga, bad pacing is all the more galling.

[liductan]

It's sad that people are actually more interest in the past and the older generation than what is current..It shows how bad this series is right now. Pretty please kish, make these flashbacks last a little longer..Anything but the current war right now...

[M3J]

Honestly they seem more aware of the world around them as a whole and it's ideology, both want to get stronger for the sake of their ideals, I'd say that would put them well beyond the Konoha rookies by a good margin, Neji, Sasuke and Shino would be the only real potential rivals, and Naruto too after some carrying on.

The awareness alone wouldn't help them figure out what they did. Hashirama's definitely shown wisdom/intellect when he was talking to Sasuke, but the two most powerful shinobi of that time were probably the smartest too.

Also, Itama had black and white hair. Attempt by Kishi to make him look as much like Tobirama and Hashirama's brother?

I'm not sure if their desire to get stronger for ideals would put them beyond Naruto or Sasuke. Sasuke wanted to get stronger for revenge, and look at how much he improved after hte timeskip. Naruto also wanted to get stronger to protect the ones he loved, and look at how many fights he's won. Hashi and Madara seemed to want to get stronger to protect their loved ones and to try and establish peace or find a way to.


But damn, Tobi wasn't kidding when he said the era was filled with constant strife and death. I don't remember even seeing that much death from the beginning of the manga to recent, and it's been said that about half the Allied Shinobi forces died.

---

Overall though, in terms of story quality this chapter's very good. Madara managed to get the rock to the shoreline when he was talking about wanting to establish peace and understanding. We also saw Itarama be one of the ones to suggest revenge, like Yahiko, while Tobirama was wanting peace through conduct. Hashirama was more like Nagato, he only sought to protect, not really making peace his top priority.

Naruto could become like hashirama but as a kid hashirama was 10 better than naruto but adult naruto could be someone as hashirama after naruto experienced hatred forwarded him for being the kyuubi host and the pain that nagato made him go through as loosing jiraya plus naruto not having parents since day one..
In other words naruto could have a bright future ahead of this war..

I'm not sure if you could say that as kid Naruto managed to turn people good or change their minds. Naruto had the power that just made you want to walk by his side and to become a better person. We saw this with Sasuke, Gaara, Neji, Zabuza, Hinata and much more.



this chapter makes me wonder though... just how many shinobi did Hashirama kill? I think Madara must have killed countless, but Hashirama may have spared most of them unless they were too dangerous.

[Airgrimes]

This flashback shouldn't take more than 3 chapters. Anything more would be too much.

Considering it could explain the whole creation of Konoha and partnership between Uchiha and Senju, I don't think we should put any limiter on just yet.
It seems after giving us some awful chapters in Tobi VS Naruto and for me personally, an overall unenjoyable to read war,

Kishi is going all out with explaining the whole Senju-Uchiha situation.
I totally don't mind him taking his time with this. This chapter he landed perfectly for me.
We have a huge understanding of Madara and Hashirama's personas already. Both have lost siblings, its just really done well.
I genuinely haven't enjoyed many chapters of Naruto since the war started so I'm being seriously genuine here.

We are in waiting to get Madara VS Hashirama, tons of Uchiha VS Senju, history on the wars between other clans that involved Senju and Uchiha,
These flashbacks > Simple fights with Naruto VS Tobi that just involve explosions and ultimate moves.

[M3J]

Also, Uchiha teamed up wiht another clan to take on the Senju. Further proof that Uchiha weren't as overpowered as people make them out to be.

[Razh]

Considering it could explain the whole creation of Konoha and partnership between Uchiha and Senju, I don't think we should put any limiter on just yet.
It seems after giving us some awful chapters in Tobi VS Naruto and for me personally, an overall unenjoyable to read war,

Kishi is going all out with explaining the whole Senju-Uchiha situation.
I totally don't mind him taking his time with this. This chapter he landed perfectly for me.
We have a huge understanding of Madara and Hashirama's personas already. Both have lost siblings, its just really done well.
I genuinely haven't enjoyed many chapters of Naruto since the war started so I'm being seriously genuine here.

We are in waiting to get Madara VS Hashirama, tons of Uchiha VS Senju, history on the wars between other clans that involved Senju and Uchiha,
These flashbacks > Simple fights with Naruto VS Tobi that just involve explosions and ultimate moves.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice to see the back story and I'm enjoying it. But it will become boring if it draggs on for too long. There must have been boring and non relevant periods is their lives so there should be several time skips. Then there are parts that we've seen already, so there's no need to repeat them. I'd like a coherent and fluid flashback that fills in some blanks from before and ties in with current events. 3 chapters was a rough estimate and my personal hope. I do believe that sometimes less is more, and this is one of those times.

[ur owned foo]

Are Hashirama and Tobirama a year apart or different mothers/same dad or what? They're the same height. I somehow expected about a 15 year gap in their age to help salvage some of Kishimoto's lack of time perception.

[Xiraiya]

Are Hashirama and Tobirama a year apart or different mothers/same dad or what? They're the same height. I somehow expected about a 15 year gap in their age to help salvage some of Kishimoto's lack of time perception.

Why did you assume such as big year gap when they've always been drawn to look very close in age?

Though that does raise the question as to how/why Tobirama became Hokage with Hashirama still alive and kicking, in fact Sarutobi became Hokage as a kid with both them apparently living

[Murdock]

i wonder if kishi is going to show another senju shinobi using mokotun as hashirama will do in the future and i guess next chapter will see hashirama's finding out that itama was killed and that will be the break point of hashirama and will try to do something to this foolish war and people not trying to find peace and break this hatred between adults without trying to find a truces.

hashirama already know that Itawa was killed he found his body

Why did you assume such as big year gap when they've always been drawn to look very close in age?

Though that does raise the question as to how/why Tobirama became Hokage with Hashirama still alive and kicking, in fact Sarutobi became Hokage as a kid with both them apparently living

that was only old flashback from part 1 ... I thought that it was like that, that he became hokage as a kid thus a prodigy but recton changed when kishi gave us new flashbacks of tobirama alone passing hokage title on the battlefield

[weehoo107]

I've always had an issue with how Kishimoto portrays education in Konoha. Agendas and clan bias aside, you'd think more of the younger generations would know about their own kage's history...?

I wonder how much of this Itachi knew, since he was so interested in history.

---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

Also, Uchiha teamed up wiht another clan to take on the Senju. Further proof that Uchiha weren't as overpowered as people make them out to be.

Well, maybe. Obito did mention how clans would hire other stronger clans to fight with them.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-403-17/...apter-398.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-404-4/n...apter-399.html

Although it certainly isn't out of the question that the Uchiha made an alliance with the Hogaromo for both reasons. In the mangastream translation it sounds as if the Hagaromo clan was engaging the Senju first, and then the Uchiha jumped on their bandwagon, which is why I'm inclined to believe this was a purchase of "military might". All speculation, though.

[Hakuteiken]

I've always had an issue with how Kishimoto portrays education in Konoha. Agendas and clan bias aside, you'd think more of the younger generations would know about their own kage's history...?

I wonder how much of this Itachi knew, since he was so interested in history.

These aren't things you'd be proud to tell to your kids. The situation has changed. Back then, toddler kids were used as pawns in a war of attrition, and they didn't seem a bit ashamed to do that.
Hashirama, who raised his voice against this foolish Shinobi notion, would definitely like to erase those shameful marks from the history for the future generations.

[mattiaildivino]

Maybe Hashirama accidentally killed Izuna by throwing one of those rocks to the other side... The butterfly effect and all that.

ahahah,that's worthier of the other posts to be read! All these guys angry because of izuna's death which ruins the timeline...guyyyyyyys! Izuna is alive! I don't know what kind of translation you read,but madara didn't specify all 4 of his bros had died. Hashirama and Tobirama obviously met madara and izuna.