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Thread: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

  1. #241
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Itama died as a kid, though. I don't think he would have such hard feelings going on for the Uchiha if he was revived. The kids knew little of what has been going on. They continuously killed each other since that was the Shinobi way as they were told, but they had no idea what they were fighting for in reality.
    Little Hashirama, Tobirama and Madara look like great observers, anyway. They probably knew for what they were putting lives on the line wasn't peace. It was an unending lust for more power and pride against the opposition.
    I know,the last part was rather a joke . btw,I think tobirama invented edo tensei to revive his clanmates. kabuto's usage was much smarter,though

  2. #242
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    Yes, but you said this:


    Of course he had to be a kid at some point. And of course he wouldn't be in every single battle. However, that does not change the fact that he is the most important member of the Senju story when it comes to the story. That is why I bought up the fact that no one believed him to come out of thin air. The Uchiha as a whole have a far greater connection with folklore and such, while Hashirama seems to be the focus of the Senju

    We know that the sharingan unifies the Uchiha as a clan. Nothing like that is present for the senju due to their mastery in many different arts.



    Like I said before, I am not denying what you say as a possibility. However, you said that you don't believe that Izuna could be born later because of their closeness in age, and you're basing that on their appearance alone. The fact remains, we do not know the age gap between the two.
    Case of misunderstanding, then. I wasn't talking about Hashirama being a kid or appearing out of thin air, but that Uchiha and Senju were evenly or almost evenly matched even before Hashirama's time.

    True, but how many people have we seen that look so alike in age have significant difference in Narutoverse?

  3. #243
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member flameorigin's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Itama died as a kid, though. I don't think he would have such hard feelings going on for the Uchiha if he was revived. The kids knew little of what has been going on. They continuously killed each other since that was the Shinobi way as they were told, but they had no idea what they were fighting for in reality.
    Little Hashirama, Tobirama and Madara look like great observers, anyway. They probably knew for what they were putting lives on the line wasn't peace. It was an unending lust for more power and pride against the opposition.
    That's why Tobirama invented the Edo Tensei. To revive their brother. Hashi I'm sure opposed it. This is another story at another time lol.
    Writer or Adventurer? Check. http://www.writerzweb.com

  4. #244
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    I think Edo Tensei could have been designed to gather intel from dead people, allies or enemies. Imagine you try to capture the enemy spy and he kills himself. You Edo Tensei the shit out of him and put him under your control then make him spill the beans on everything he knows.

    If you think about it Edo Tensei has some great applications even if not used as a fighting tool. Send dead people to scout or spy. When they find out something, you unsummon them.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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  6. #245
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    but how do you know if they found something out? How would you be able to control them? Though, I'm not sure when the concept of fuuda came about, Orochimaru could have created it or it could have been Tobirama. But he probably sucked at controlling the summons.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Hrathgrath's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    You guys seem to be forgetting that you have to sacrifice someone to ressurect someone else... So pretty much no way, short of the zetsu answer, to use it without the evil aspect..
    Each click for these guys is a level! Click and they will EVOLVE!

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Kill one prisoner to revive another, maybe? Don't bother with useless details. If Tobirama is the one that created it, it means he must have used it at least once, and sacrificed someone at least once. He seems to be a guy that does that needs to be done. It's not necessarily evil, just like Hiruzen or Itachi aren't evil, even though they are responsible for the death of an entire clan.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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  10. #248
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
    Oh - I have no disagreement on that point. The Tobi backstory was also interminable and drawn out. It should have been done in 1 chapter or two if you really wanted to lavish a lot of time on it. For it to have taken so long was a waste of time.

    But while the Madara & Harashima chapters may be less painfully awful, I'm still wanting them to be over in 1 or 2 chapters. But hey - if I were the guy in charge then this manga would have cut out a whole bunch of stuff so what do I know? I'm a ruthless butcher when it comes to editing, and even things that others consider 'classics' I would often take a wholesale buzzsaw to. Even authors that I really like (such as Tolkien) sometimes drone on too long and would benefit from a good editing in order to keep the pacing brisk.

    That's a fault of mine, perhaps. I must have tight, brisk editing or I am going to be flipping pages. Authors such as JK Rowling and Robert Jordan set my teeth on edge. I know there are readers that love it when a writer takes 100 pages to say almost nothing. I am not one of those people. And in a visual medium like a manga, bad pacing is all the more galling.
    I was about to say you're definitely an editor I would have epic battles-over-the-waterfall with when it comes to what to do with a story. I just don't consider this flashback to have bad pacing, but then again I'm learning all kinds of things about the story just from the art, as opposed to Tobi's flashback where we learned absolutely nothing about the world- it was just a transparent attempt at clumsily threading together Tobi's origin. Without reading any of the bubbles, I can gleam many differences between the ninja world then and now.

  11. #249
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Invader's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Quote Quote:
    I was about to say you're definitely an editor I would have epic battles-over-the-waterfall with when it comes to what to do with a story.
    Thanks for the mental image. I can see us now, blasting down the rapids towards that waterfall on a raft that's falling apart as we go - the rocks splintering our craft by degrees. Our eyes lock.

    Invader: "You WILL cut that conversation! It adds nothing to the story and interrupts the pace!"
    BadluckArtist: "No! It provides vital backstory and increases the reader's immersion!"

    We leap at each other our fists clenched as we aim for each other's vitals, dissapearing into the mist and foam of the falls...

    Invader: "BREVITAS VIVIT!"
    BadluckArtist: "NEVEEEEEER!"

    Quote Quote:
    Without reading any of the bubbles, I can gleam many differences between the ninja world then and now.
    Admitted. But this does not require 6 chapters. 1 or 2 would suffice. The only bits in this chapter that mattered were the scene where we saw the attitude of Harashima's dad, Tobirama's reaction, and then the second meeting by the river. You could have squeezed the bulk of last week's chapter down to two or three pages of epic battle, and this week's chapter to 4 or 5 pages of poignant backstory. 8 Pages tops. Literally HALF of one chapter. Instead we've got 2 whole chapters and the bulk of it was treacle.
    Hidan... Naruto's ONLY real villain!

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  13. #250
    ... 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member 3c's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiraiya View Post
    Why did you assume such as big year gap when they've always been drawn to look very close in age?

    Though that does raise the question as to how/why Tobirama became Hokage with Hashirama still alive and kicking, in fact Sarutobi became Hokage as a kid with both them apparently living
    Hiruzen's appointment to Hokage has been retconned. As for Tobirama becoming Hokage, I can think of a logical scenario. Everyone knows that Hashirama was the leader of his clan, but he always seemed to be in close council with his brother, just like in the case with Madara and Izuna. While Hashirama likely was the Hokage per official definition, Tobirama likely functioned as a close adviser. A Vice Hokage if you will. Maybe Tobirama was more suited for running an economy and military of a village. One can draw strong parallels between Naruto and Hashirama. Naruto doesn't seem like a good person to run a village's economy, to assign missions etc. Naruto is more of a person concerned by ideology, and a mental leader. Naruto is good at rallying others under his banner, but everyone will say that making someone like Shikamaru actually run the village would be a wiser choice. In other words his council. I can imagine Hashirama having been very similar. He knew what he wanted, and once it was achieved he likely handed down the governing responsibilities to more "suited" people. While Tobirama dealt with the Uchiha clan poorly, he was possibly a more competent leader in other aspects.

    Hiruzen retired due to old age, but he was still Hokage, while not the "main" Hokage, once Minato was appointment as the Fourth. If Tsunade ends up surviving, I doubt she will 100% retire after appointing the Sixth. She will still remain Hokage, but not the main Hokage.

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  15. #251
    The Green Knight MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Gats's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    Hiruzen's appointment to Hokage has been retconned. As for Tobirama becoming Hokage, I can think of a logical scenario. Everyone knows that Hashirama was the leader of his clan, but he always seemed to be in close council with his brother, just like in the case with Madara and Izuna. While Hashirama likely was the Hokage per official definition, Tobirama likely functioned as a close adviser. A Vice Hokage if you will. Maybe Tobirama was more suited for running an economy and military of a village. One can draw strong parallels between Naruto and Hashirama. Naruto doesn't seem like a good person to run a village's economy, to assign missions etc. Naruto is more of a person concerned by ideology, and a mental leader. Naruto is good at rallying others under his banner, but everyone will say that making someone like Shikamaru actually run the village would be a wiser choice. In other words his council. I can imagine Hashirama having been very similar. He knew what he wanted, and once it was achieved he likely handed down the governing responsibilities to more "suited" people. While Tobirama dealt with the Uchiha clan poorly, he was possibly a more competent leader in other aspects.

    Hiruzen retired due to old age, but he was still Hokage, while not the "main" Hokage, once Minato was appointment as the Fourth. If Tsunade ends up surviving, I doubt she will 100% retire after appointing the Sixth. She will still remain Hokage, but not the main Hokage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiraiya View Post
    Why did you assume such as big year gap when they've always been drawn to look very close in age?

    Though that does raise the question as to how/why Tobirama became Hokage with Hashirama still alive and kicking, in fact Sarutobi became Hokage as a kid with both them apparently living
    This has not been retconned (unless Kishi said so in an interview ?). Hiruzen has never been appointed as Hokage while being a child. The panels are separated (different timeline possible then) and Hashirama just explained what it means to be Hokage. Only Tobirama appointed him :
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-128-14...apter-123.html

    You can also recognize that Tobirama used the same message in both panel (different translators but you get the point).
    http://www.mangareader.net/93-46747-...apter-481.html
    Last edited by Gats; February 28, 2013 at 12:02 PM.

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  17. #252
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Case of misunderstanding, then. I wasn't talking about Hashirama being a kid or appearing out of thin air, but that Uchiha and Senju were evenly or almost evenly matched even before Hashirama's time.

    True, but how many people have we seen that look so alike in age have significant difference in Narutoverse?
    Which is something that we knew to be fact since the rivalry between the two clans was made into such a big deal. "When someone would hire the senju, Their rival would hire the Uchiha." This is already a staple in history, it wasn't established Just this chapter. That does not change the fact that Hashirama Seems to be the main focus of his Clan. So much so, that any folklore connections that the Senju Get come directly through him so far, Not the clan as a whole.

    Does it really matter? The fact is, we don't know. Does it really make sense for one to come to a conclusion based on something they are completely unaware of? We have no idea what Kishimoto will decide for their ages.

  18. #253
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Ruhina's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    If I recall correctly, Madara and Izuna unlocked their sharingans (or at least mangekyou sharingans) in their teens. So there are a few more years before they are fully battle worthy. In order to preserve the power balance, I guess Hashirama unlocks mokuton by then.

    Since Madara mentions that the Edo tensei was made to clean up the battlefield, I'm guessing Tobirama developed it before Konoha was founded.

  19. #254
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Bloomerwedgies's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    Is great-granddaddy Senju a cold fish or what? He could give even Fugaku some pointers in chilly parenting. I'm sure he's a product of the times, but still. Holy cow. I loved little Tobirama standing up for his big brother. "Father, we are at a funeral after all. Could you maybe not punch your child in the face in the presence of the dead?" Seriously, Mr Senju. Someone has died.

    Hashirama and Madara are so cute, it's kind of ridiculous. Hashirama is a little teaser and Madara might be even more tsundere than Sasuke, which I did not think was humanly possible. It's a wonderful thing to see a decades-long, world-changing, map-redrawing relationship summed up so beautifully and succinctly in two panels.

    Madara: GO AWAY
    Hashirama: *sigh* Okay...
    Madara: WHERE ARE YOU GOING

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  21. #255
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    Re: Naruto 622 Discussion / 623 Predictions

    et hashirama has flashback of his battle with madara, within young hashirama has flashback of his childhood friendship with madara. then hashirama's father may have a flashback of his childhood while he is talking with child hashirama about shinobi.

    interesting thing is we could not see the outcome of his clash with madara because it is interrupted by other flashback. could kurama do anything on 1000s hands or did hashirama's summon give kurama a good spanking with 1000 hands, could madara use amaterasu, did hashirama use flower world tree... so many questions about the battle.

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