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Now of course there's no point in being flexible if you won't do enough damage, but Ubogin's experience must be that 20% of his power can easily break the arm of any equal level Manipulation/Materialization user. Just imagine Shizuku or Shalunark was his opponent. Shizuku lost to Gon in arm wrestling while using aura. Sure she used the wrong hand but using aura versus not is also a huge equalizer. Ubogin is obviously specialized in physical strength even for a Reinforcement user (even Gon is more balanced in terms of variety of abilities) so there's no reason to doubt his judgment that 20% ought to be enough for an equal level Materialization/Manipulation user.
When you attack someone who is likely to have any 'tricky' ability your strategy as Reinforcement is use the lowest amount of power possible that's enough to take out an arm, because you know that guy probably has some tricky ability he'll attempt to use to counter so you don't want to overcommit yourself. It's also possible the other guy just ends up sacrificing an arm to activate his ability. While this doesn't mean you shouldn't go for the arm whenever the opportunity presents itself, there's no need for overkill because as long as you take the arm and avoid their counterattack the fight is almost certainly over. And there's no reason why this strategy would ever not work unless your enemy has a total hax ability like Emperor Time. From the point of view a Reinforcement user, if they can tank your hits then that pretty much rules out Materialization/Manipoulation/Specialization, as all 3 schools absolutely do not fight by tanking stuff.
Another example of Togashi not making sense is the thing about Kurapica's In cloaked chain already being around Uvo since the blunder he made when he was fighting at 50%. If the chain was already around him, why would Kurapica be surprised about Uvo's whereabouts, In or not?
I think Uvo used 20% of his aura because Kurapika is a conjurer.Conjurers and manipulators are the weakest physically so their defense is too.For a guy who used all his potential in brute strength I think his reasoning was pretty logical.
At the 50% mark, Ubogin said Kurapika will regret not chaining him, which implies he wasn't chained. Kurapika's ability is not unlike Hisoka's, in the sense that he can obviously chain someone while attacking directly too and has no reason to hide it unless he's trying to sneak attack. At that point Kurapika wasn't hiding his chains, so Ubogin must mean chaining as a follow-through to his normal attack. But I think Kurapika didn't chain him becuase he knows Ubogin is at 50% so it's possible he gets an extra burst of power to do something unexpected, so Kurapika prefers to wait until he's at 100% to ensure he can't do anything unexpected. Again this is only possible because Kurapika could tank his 50% damage output. If he did not he'd be forced to try to chain Ubogin earlier, and Ubogin possibly could avoid it by increasing his aura since more aura = more speed too.
---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------
My argument would be that although Ubogin's attacks look identical at 20/50/100%, he must have longer recovery while doing the 100% Big Bang compared to just the 20% test case. In fact, in both cases we basically have fight go in this format:
Ubogin punches Kurapika
Kurapika stagger back
Counterattack with chain
In the 20%, Ubogin avoided it. In the 100%, Ubogin did not. Kurapika said that it's because he used In and Ubogin was talking, but I think part of it must be because Ubogin cannot immediately recover after using the Big Bang. That is, that punch must use enough power that he's momentarily frozen after the impact just from using up so much aura. If there's no difference in recovery time between 100% and 20%, then he might as well start out at 100% all the time.
---------- Post added at 03:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------
Note that in most cases, using 100% would also be problematic in the sense that after you attempt a 100% output attack, you'd be pretty vulnerable to any counterattack. It doesn't matter in Kurapika's case since his chains are basically one hit kill (you go to Zetsu and it's game over if it connects) but against most opponents perhaps it is wise to leave extra aura to defend.
Also, I guess you can say that if someone's at 100% for an attack then they got no aura left to do things like Gyou, which makes it less likely they'll see through your In. Ubogin at 20%/50% presumably can use Gyou any time and might see through the In that way, but if he's at 100% by definition he has to use all his power in the Big Bang and wouldn't be able to use Gyou immediately even if he wanted to.
Although the manga does not make it very clear why there are drawbacks to go 100%, I think we can assume it must leave you more vulnerable to any kind of counterattack/surprises so if you know 20% is supposed to knock someone out, you wouldn't use more than 20%, not because you underestimated your opponents but that having an 80% of aura in reserve helps you deal with any surprises, provided you know your 20% is sufficient to win.
In HxH, things like surprise, and conditions matter. Feitan was struggling against that fodder queen .but once he got into battle mode it was obvious there were difference between them in nen abilities, yet that didn't stop him from struggling early on against her. What would you think would have happened if Feitan faught Pitou instead of ugly queen? Rusty Feitan might have died if he didn't get his act together quick enough. Even Netero at first was saying how he thought Pitou might be stronger than him, yet after some honing it became clear he was on a much higher level.
HxH fights factor in many things, prep, conditions, settings, abilities, etc. Pitou surprised Kaito and took of his arm, what can you do at that point? I don't think many of the Ryodan would have fared better in that spot.I think Feitan, or any of the other Ryodan for that matter, took the Chimera Ants they fought all that serious. Once they did they completely dominated them. That's to say, they get serious when they need to.
but I have to say that Feitan's pain packer probably wouldn't have done much damage at all to Pitou... Considering the sheer amount of aura she possessed and the incredible speed and jumping ability in her legs she could easily create a ton of distance in very little time, there is a huge difference between Zazan and Pitou.
I do feel that Feitan would have snapped back into shape quicker had he faced an opponent as strong as Pitou but I just don't see him faring much better than Kaito.
Last edited by zzigg; March 02, 2013 at 11:35 AM.
I don't think Feitan was rusty.His vision of fighting really impressed me(he pays attention to details).He is just a guy who relies on his speed.Zazan was not fodder,she trapped him.
She noticed Feitan was paying attention to details and she put down her to lure him.
Even Netero and Zeno said they could've died if Meryem simply attacked while they were distracted by Pitou's ability. In HXH you don't get to complain about stuff like mental duress, rust, lack of sleep, or whatever. If Meryem simply instant killed Zeno and Meryem while they took their eyes off him, that's a perfectly acceptable outcome in HXH because you're never supposed to take your eye off someone as powerful as Meryem.
At any rate Feitan tried to hit Zanza with Ko, it got tanked and Zanza counterattacked. He's lucky that he didn't just instantly died from the counterattack because that's what usually happens when your Ko gets tanked for no damage. Feitan's ability is pretty dumb anyway because like Gensuru it's your standard 'use double aura to do damage' because he has to protect himself first (otherwise he sets himself on fire too) before he can attack the enemy. I assume Togashi isn't interested in having any consistency fighting a fodder enemy but realistically such abilities gets you owned hard by anyone stronger than you. Whatever aura you use to protect yourself, an equally strong (and even slightly weaker) opponent can simply do the exact same thing since your AP is split on offense/defense (set enemy on fire + protect yourself from fire) while the enemy only has to concentrate on defense.
I suppose you can argue there's some special fire resistant property or that perhaps Zanza is especially vulnerable to fire but in the case Phinx should just throw a flamethrower and a flame retardant suit to Feitan for help.
Note that Killua's ability is similar, but because he's naturally resistant to electricity he does not need to allocate any aura to protect himself from his own lightning attacks, so he put 100% of his output on offense which makes it a very potent move. But this won't work in Feitan's case because we sure don't know of any naturally fire-resistant human beings in HXH.
Last edited by Phantron; March 02, 2013 at 02:51 PM.
..he give killua enough time to escape carrying gon .from pito who is super fast and can detect people from a long distance
that mean they fought for a long period of time
.we may actually see a flashback of the fight ...
somehow it's dumb ....but maybe feitan as a torture expert.. like to get himself tortured before he set his foes in fire...for me i see this ability suit him wellQuote:
pito did use his aura when he landed in front of them.. killua said that it was the creepiest aura he ever feltQuote:
and that's long time enough for killua to get out of their carrying gon ...
that's pretty much long time for a hxh fight ...also we saw ruined trees and pito scratched ..so they fought for a while
Last edited by zzigg; March 02, 2013 at 03:41 PM.