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Thread: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member futurefrog's Avatar
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    SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Now if you guys recall in Chapter 339 we briefly see Kurapika seated in a cathedral with the eyes of his brethren upon an alter. He is ignoring the phone call from Leorio. Throughout the entire arc of Election, Kurapika refuses to answer the phone. Why is this do you think?

    My prediction: Chrollo has removed Kurapika nen.

    In previous arcs Kurapika had no problem picking up the phone for his friends, but here he is detached and seemingly enraged. Could this mean he has realised that Chrollo has removed his nen Judgement chain?

    "If you want to understand someone, find out what makes them angry."

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Salce's Avatar
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Kurapika certainly seems to have changed the last 8 months (in the manga). When they phoned him on december he was pretty much the same, but now he dresses like a gangster. I guess he took control of Nostrade family, or made his own place in the mafia.

    So, maybe he doesn't answer the phone because he doesn't want to involve Leorio and the kids into the mafia world.

    But what you're saying is probable too. The troupe already found the nen remover, so it would be weird if Chrollo still has the chain. Togashi needs to explain it, because during the CA arc he left the topic on stand by, and when we finally saw Hisoka, he didn't explain anything about Chrollo.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member GingFuriksu's Avatar
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    My prediction is that-- Chrollo removed the chain and the Spiders ( preferably Chrollo ) is after him. He's avoiding the calls of his friends because he doesn't want to get them involved.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member zzigg's Avatar
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    he became the head leader of the nostrada familly ..of cours chrollo removed the curse but the ugly creature is still wrapped around him so ..the spiders are looking for his ass now
    and he is if i recall in a church praying if i'm not wrong..
    i think he managed to collect some of his peoples eyes and now he is going to use them like danzo

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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Kurapika isn't someone who is afraid to sacrifice his friends. He told Killua and Gon the weakness of his ability so that they'd work even harder for him. I'd say he's not answering the phone precisely because he doesn't need any more pawns since it looks like he now has a prominent role amongst Mafia and certainly a lot of connection with all the eyes in front of him.

    I think people have this relationship backwards between Spiders and Kurapika. Kurapika isn't afraid of the Spiders. It's the other way around. Kurapika single handedly took out 6 of the Spiders as told by the prophecy (all the known death sentences clearly attributes Kurapika as the killer and does not mention Hisoka at all) when he was merely a novice with no power in the Mafia. Gon pointed out that Kurapika's ability is very ineffective if his goal is really to just revenge because if he wants to just kill the Spiders, all he would need is something like "Slumber Chains" or "Paralyzing Chains". I'd say Kurapika used to believe that perhaps the Spiders can be reformed somehow which is why he focused his ability on subduing them. Based on the ominous scene I'd think he has decided he's no longer going to play nice and he can easily learn abilities designed to kill instead of subdue, and again he took 6 Spiders back when his ability was only designed to capture/subdue an opponent, so he's certainly not going to need to look for help if he ever decided to go for the kill.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    The only thing i got from that scene is that Kurapica had gone off the far end and had been completely taken over by his obsession with getting back the Kurta Eyes. He's dressed like the Mafia so obviously he's become the head of the Nostrade family. Probably means that, like the Mafia, he's a bit of a bad guy now. Not surprising that he ignores Gon and Co.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member zzigg's Avatar
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Quote Quote:
    Kurapika isn't afraid of the Spiders. It's the other way around. Kurapika single handedly took out 6 of the Spiders as told by the prophecy
    but now they know his weak point ..and they can just act as a group .. i guess that lower his potential

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Tenacious Weezy's Avatar
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Kurapika isn't someone who is afraid to sacrifice his friends. He told Killua and Gon the weakness of his ability so that they'd work even harder for him. I'd say he's not answering the phone precisely because he doesn't need any more pawns since it looks like he now has a prominent role amongst Mafia and certainly a lot of connection with all the eyes in front of him.

    I think people have this relationship backwards between Spiders and Kurapika. Kurapika isn't afraid of the Spiders. It's the other way around. Kurapika single handedly took out 6 of the Spiders as told by the prophecy (all the known death sentences clearly attributes Kurapika as the killer and does not mention Hisoka at all) when he was merely a novice with no power in the Mafia. Gon pointed out that Kurapika's ability is very ineffective if his goal is really to just revenge because if he wants to just kill the Spiders, all he would need is something like "Slumber Chains" or "Paralyzing Chains". I'd say Kurapika used to believe that perhaps the Spiders can be reformed somehow which is why he focused his ability on subduing them. Based on the ominous scene I'd think he has decided he's no longer going to play nice and he can easily learn abilities designed to kill instead of subdue, and again he took 6 Spiders back when his ability was only designed to capture/subdue an opponent, so he's certainly not going to need to look for help if he ever decided to go for the kill.
    A few clarifications to point out.

    Kurapika's biggest weakness against the spiders was that he didn't want to sacrifice his friends it actually became the defining moment of the arcs climax.

    Gon said his ability was ineffective but Killua corrected Gon and said it actually was very effective because it allowed him to torture and prolong their deaths, it also allowed him to pry for information.

    The prophecies stated that Kurapika would kill 5 more spiders but it also stated Hisoka was the traitor and he would give secrets. Crucial information on abilities would give Kurapika a ridiculous advantage over them in one on one situations.

    Finally Kurapika never wanted to reform the spiders. Ever. He wanted to kill them one by one but once he realized they would just replace each other he realized he needed a different approach (probably killing them all at once or at least faster).

    Anyways back on topic his reappearance was probably just fan service, I doubt we get any more of his story especially if his nen abilities are the same.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member zzigg's Avatar
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Quote Quote:
    Anyways back on topic his reappearance was probably just fan service, I doubt we get any more of his story especially if his nen abilities are the same.
    i doubt that ....... the conflict will sure continue and togashi is taking it to the next level
    corapica didnt reveal yet his fifth finger chain ..maybe in these time he become more powerfull he have a huge gang of good nen users made and maybe he made another ability .... .

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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    When it comes to understanding what motivates people and whatnot Gon is almost always the correct one, not Killua. Kurapika's abilties are pointless if his goal isn't to try to reform the Spiders in some way. He would've let Ubogin live if he agreed to tell him about the rest of the Spiders. He also didn't plan on killing every Spider in the group as his original plan is to only cutoff the head. If his goal is merely to obtain information he would've developed abilities that simply mind controlled his opponent. It should be pretty obvious ruthless murderers like Spiders probably won't be scared even under the threat of death, and why take chances when you can just control them? We know that the ability to control your opponent is rather common in HXH, and certainly more common than 'nearly unbreakable chain that forces Zetsu at the cost of your life'. Why worry about capture someone if you don't plan on letting them live? He can simply slumber/paralyze a guy and then chop off their hands/feet and then that guy sure isn't escaping anywhere. Yes Hisoka was a traitor but the fact that his involvement was never mentioned in any of the prophecy means his role did not directly lead to any of the Spider's deaths. Therefore Kurapika still did all the work killing 5 or 6 Spiders (it's possible the 6th Spider to die is Hisoka, as we saw no prophecy from Hisoka beyond he'll met Kuroro, though there's no usual death sentence warning either).

    I don't get all the Spiders love. Feitan was also rusty, so he managed to hit someone with a Ko while doing no damage against an unguarded opponent. That's one of the most amazing feat of weakness in HXH. Meleoron surmised that even the mighty Meryem could be defeated if someone managed to hit him with a very strong attack while he's completely unaware of their existence. We don't know if he's right but it certainly sounds plausible at that time, and yet Feitan cannot do this against a division leader.

    Zanza also never learned how to use aura properly from Pufu (the divison leaders that swore loyalty to Meryem are considerably more powerful since Pufu taught them how to use their abilities), so she isn't even close to the strongest division leader (most likely Leol is the strongest, and probably would've beaten anyone outside of Netero in his trap except he fought against the man with the infinite lung capacity). At best you can say that fire perhaps ignores body strength (since it burns someone who can tank a Ko) but then all that means is Hunters should be fighting with flamethrowers instead of aura, not to mention there is clearly enough time for everyone else to escape while Feitan prepared his move while Zanza patiently watched his opponent charging up his super move like a good Shonen villian.

    The Spiders faked their deaths to get the Mafia off their back. Kuroro hired Ilumi because clearly the Zs are a very real threat to the survival of their entire organization. Had Ilumi called a few seconds late then Kuroro would've died, and if Zeno survived the two of them will definitely mop up the rest of the Spiders 1 by 1. If the Mafia was led by Kurapika instead, the Spiders would've already lost because Ilumi obviously isn't going to instantly kill Kurapika and now the call will be the other way around. So, the notion that Kurapika who presumably now wields considerable power in the Mafia needs help is absurd. Unless he ran out of new abilities to develop (he said he spent most of his abilities to fight Spiders, not all), he's not even using the most powerful abilities he could because he starts with a capture/subdue mindframe when he really should be just going for kills.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Don't think mind control abilities allow the user to force the target to divulge information. It's more like simple commands. Reading memories would take a nen ability like Pakunoda's, which is incredibly rare.

    I also got the whole "justice vibe" from Kurapica's abilities. Kurapica talks incessantly about "capturing" the Spiders. He doesn't talk about hunting them. To me it seems like the abilities he had in mind were for the express purpose of catching the Spiders and locking them up. Of course, Kurapica did let his emotions get the better of him so he did end up severely injuring and then killing Uvogin and Paku, but note that in both instances, ultimately the deaths were caused indirectly (via his victims contravening the restrictions of the chain).

    At the same time, I think it would be going too far to say that Kurapica wanted to "reform" them. Reforming the Spiders would be easy with the judgment chain - simply set the following restriction:

    "If you injure, kill or use your Nen on anyone in any context that is not out of self defense and/or without the target's consent, you die."

    Do that to all the Spiders and Kurapica would have forcibly stopped them from evil. But the thing with locking people up is that it's not just rehabilitation - it's also retribution. There is a punitive element in jailing people - i think that's undeniable.

    Now, on to another matter. Could Kurapica have taken out all the Spiders by himself? Let's look at his abilities. Apparently in Emperor Time he can barely tank Uvogin's punches. Getting caught with his chains = instant zetsu, which means instant death (simply by crushing the victim with his nen powered chains into pulp should be fairly easy). So he's got both attack and defense, and his defense is sufficient against the Spider with the most firepower. The chains also have decent range and damage from the lash is enough to scare Uvogin. Personally I think he could take on two Spiders by himself. That said, I think if Uvogin wasn't inexplicably screwing around he would've gotten Kurapica a bit more (i mean how didn't he detect the strength of Kurapica's Ken? Why on earth did he go 20% against Kurapica but went immediately for the Big Bang Impact against Worm? Just doesn't make any sense to me). Probably the one guy he would have trouble against is Chrollo who has way too many zanzy abilities and far too much battle smarts.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Tenacious Weezy's Avatar
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    When it comes to understanding what motivates people and whatnot Gon is almost always the correct one, not Killua. Kurapika's abilties are pointless if his goal isn't to try to reform the Spiders in some way. He would've let Ubogin live if he agreed to tell him about the rest of the Spiders. He also didn't plan on killing every Spider in the group as his original plan is to only cutoff the head. If his goal is merely to obtain information he would've developed abilities that simply mind controlled his opponent. It should be pretty obvious ruthless murderers like Spiders probably won't be scared even under the threat of death, and why take chances when you can just control them? We know that the ability to control your opponent is rather common in HXH, and certainly more common than 'nearly unbreakable chain that forces Zetsu at the cost of your life'. Why worry about capture someone if you don't plan on letting them live? He can simply slumber/paralyze a guy and then chop off their hands/feet and then that guy sure isn't escaping anywhere. Yes Hisoka was a traitor but the fact that his involvement was never mentioned in any of the prophecy means his role did not directly lead to any of the Spider's deaths. Therefore Kurapika still did all the work killing 5 or 6 Spiders (it's possible the 6th Spider to die is Hisoka, as we saw no prophecy from Hisoka beyond he'll met Kuroro, though there's no usual death sentence warning either).

    I don't get all the Spiders love. Feitan was also rusty, so he managed to hit someone with a Ko while doing no damage against an unguarded opponent. That's one of the most amazing feat of weakness in HXH. Meleoron surmised that even the mighty Meryem could be defeated if someone managed to hit him with a very strong attack while he's completely unaware of their existence. We don't know if he's right but it certainly sounds plausible at that time, and yet Feitan cannot do this against a division leader.

    Zanza also never learned how to use aura properly from Pufu (the divison leaders that swore loyalty to Meryem are considerably more powerful since Pufu taught them how to use their abilities), so she isn't even close to the strongest division leader (most likely Leol is the strongest, and probably would've beaten anyone outside of Netero in his trap except he fought against the man with the infinite lung capacity). At best you can say that fire perhaps ignores body strength (since it burns someone who can tank a Ko) but then all that means is Hunters should be fighting with flamethrowers instead of aura, not to mention there is clearly enough time for everyone else to escape while Feitan prepared his move while Zanza patiently watched his opponent charging up his super move like a good Shonen villian.

    The Spiders faked their deaths to get the Mafia off their back. Kuroro hired Ilumi because clearly the Zs are a very real threat to the survival of their entire organization. Had Ilumi called a few seconds late then Kuroro would've died, and if Zeno survived the two of them will definitely mop up the rest of the Spiders 1 by 1. If the Mafia was led by Kurapika instead, the Spiders would've already lost because Ilumi obviously isn't going to instantly kill Kurapika and now the call will be the other way around. So, the notion that Kurapika who presumably now wields considerable power in the Mafia needs help is absurd. Unless he ran out of new abilities to develop (he said he spent most of his abilities to fight Spiders, not all), he's not even using the most powerful abilities he could because he starts with a capture/subdue mindframe when he really should be just going for kills.
    Interesting response. I literally just read the yorknew arc last week and caught up to the greed island arc on the new anime adaption. I suggest going over it again, sometimes it's good to freshen up on long stories and HxH is very long. I'm only responding to the Kurapika stuff to stay on topic but your not being fair about the Feitan fight. You realize that a nen user isn't trying unless he's using his hatsu right? Even then that was just one of his abilities so he's far from a slouch.

    Your opinion on who is a good judge of character between Gon and Killua is just that. Your opinion. You mentioned Gon's thoughts as a claim and I brought up Killua's view which countered your point. Honestly neither claim should be taken too seriously. Their just opinions lol.

    Kurapika's abilities aren't pointless they were meant specifically to fight the spiders. He was going to chain them up one at a time and clobber them. He did want info from Uvo but his intention was to kill NOT reform or "collect info".

    The cutting off the head thing was only a thought. He realized while speaking with Chrollo that it was pointless because the spider would still have its legs. Even some the spiders were sort of whatever about Chrollo possibly being killed. Feitan and Phinks specifically. Originally they just wanted Paku because of her mind reading ability but due to his impatience and Gon and Killua's capture he had to take the leader for bargaining purposes.

    Kurapika according to the prophecies kills them himself yes, however he was given information about them from Hisoka. This was in his prophecy specifically but he changed it with his "texture surprise" ability. You realize that with nen abilities knowing the abilities of someone you fight is a tremendous advantage. For someone like Kurapika who is very smart already added with the circumstance of his ability it's pretty much a gimme. Hisoka is vital in that information.

    I'd go into more detail on your other points but its important we stay focused on Kurapika. Anyways the Mafia can't help Kurapika either because they have a relationship with meteor city folks and don't want to ruin that, that's why they called the bounty and hits off of them after the whole fake corpses thing. Also Kurapika hasn't shown his index finger ability which is likely his true weapon when fighting but he hasn't had to use it thus far. Still after all this I think his appearance was still just a fan service
    Last edited by Tenacious Weezy; February 23, 2013 at 02:57 PM.

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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    The excuses people make for Spiders are really sad. This is basically a group of above average guys who finds strength in numbers to cover their weakness and yet people act like they're a collection of 13 Hisokas. Hisoka's original motivation to join up with Kurapika is that he noted Kuroro ALWAYS has at least two other guys by him when he makes a public appearance. Hisoka is someone who is absolutely sure of his superior tactics/trickery/strategy, but even he came to the conclusion of '1 on 3 is probably going to suck'. This implies having strength in numbers is huge as even someone like Hisoka who is crazy enough to try to fight Netero still wants to avoid 1on3 odds, so the Spiders operating with their 13 man crew does not get to cry about how Kurapika has a couple advantage when he's doing the fighting by himself.

    Further, Hisoka teamed up with Kurapika with only the intention of using him, and he actually made it quite clear. He said he won't fight with Kurapika on his side. He will provide info but otherwise Kurapika is on his own because Hisoka, after all, is only interested in fighting Kuroro.

    Hisoka also only knows two people's ability (Ubogin and Shizuku). That means there are at least 3 other Spiders that was supposed to have been killed by Kurapika while he has no idea what their ability is. Pakunoda and Shalunark's death sentence does not allude to Hisoka at all, so Kurapika must have done all the work there.

    Kuroro's decision after he read the prophecy was to immediately pull out of Yorknew to avoid a confrontation with the Chain Assassin, yet apparently Spider fanboys view Kurapika as someone the Spiders can easily beat 1on1. Note that the prophecy doesn't even say whether Kurapika was going to die or not, suggesting there's a high probability Kurapika would get away with butchering half of the Spiders. And this is when Kurapika still isn't focused solely on killing the Spiders. It's easy to control another person. For example when Spiders talked about how Ubogin didn't return, Kuroro remarked 'it'd be very bad if Ubogin was controlled by the enemy'. I mean there's an entire school called 'Manipulation' so why would you ever assume it's hard to manipulate another person? When Werefin threatened Ikalgo to surrender, Ikalgo figured that if Werefin was a manipulation user he can easily get whatever info he want which is why he rather die than surrender. Palm was also supposed to commit suicide ASAP to avoid leaking information. Throughout HXH you see that people generally operate on the assumption that the enemy can always get whatever information they want out of a captured person because manipulation just isn't very hard to do.

    Judgment Chain is a very weak 'control' type ability, and Kurapika knows this, which is why he set it so that he will know whenever Judgment Chain is removed. We can see that he clearly doesn't expect Judgment Chain to last forever, so it's not like he's thinking 'yep nobody can possibly get out of Judgment Chain'. No, he's well aware of their limitations. In fact when Killua warned him about this vulnerablity his reaction is 'why do you think I didn't know these chains can be removed?' If you look at Kurapika's reaction after getting the call, he's fully expecting Kuroro to look for an aura remover at some point.

    So why did he even bother with this abilty if he knows Kuroro will eventually get out of it? Because he wants Kuroro to know what it's like to lose his friends and hopefully he might understand the pain he causes to others. Kurapika is someone who is strongly against capital punishment. He asks Ubogin why is it he can kill without feeling anything and we can see the senseless killing mentality that Ubogin has is completely beyond Kurapika's understanding. Even if the Spiders cannot be reformed, Kurapika would rather have them locked up in a cell somewhere because he doesn't believe in death as the ultimate revenge. This is what limits his ability because it is way harder to capture/subdue a person compared to just killing them outright (if you can subdue a person you can definitely kill them, but the reverse sure isn't true), and he's going to be scarily powerful if he ever decided that death is the only punishment fit for Spiders. His view on life in general is far more crippling than his alleged weakness of overvaluing friends.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member The Invertroid's Avatar
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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenacious Weezy View Post
    Anyways the Mafia can't help Kurapika either because they have a relationship with meteor city folks and don't want to ruin that, that's why they called the bounty and hits off of them after the whole fake corpses thing.
    Even without the Meteor City relationship, I don't think the mafia would be able to help Kurapika much with the Spiders. I think the events of YorkNew showed pretty clearly that the mafia of the HxH universe kind of sucks. They lost their best nen users, thousands of lackeys, billions of dollars in merchandise, and their entire top leadership, all without killing a single Spider (I don't count Uvo and Paku because Kurapika was pretty much doing his own thing when he went after them).

    I'm kind of surprised the entire organization didn't collapse after sustaining such staggering losses in such a short span of time. They’re in no position to try going after the Phantom Troupe again.

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    Re: SPOILER: Kurapika's reappearance question

    Quote Originally Posted by The Invertroid View Post
    Even without the Meteor City relationship, I don't think the mafia would be able to help Kurapika much with the Spiders. I think the events of YorkNew showed pretty clearly that the mafia of the HxH universe kind of sucks. They lost their best nen users, thousands of lackeys, billions of dollars in merchandise, and their entire top leadership, all without killing a single Spider (I don't count Uvo and Paku because Kurapika was pretty much doing his own thing when he went after them).

    I'm kind of surprised the entire organization didn't collapse after sustaining such staggering losses in such a short span of time. They’re in no position to try going after the Phantom Troupe again.
    Um, the Mafia THOUGHT they killed roughly half of the Spiders, hence the fake bodies. There's no indication that they ever figured out the bodies were fake. They were originally going to kill anyone related to the Spiders too but their connection to Meteor City made them stop pursuing their relatives (though there probably isn't anyone to pursue anyway).

    From their point of view, both sides suffered a pretty crippling loss.

    I don't know why people continue to overrate the effect the Spiders have. Out of the stuff the Spiders sold, the eyes sold for 2.9 billion zenny and it appears to be one of the highest bids in that batch of goods (the other items had bids of 300 million and 50 millon). The most expensive copy of Greed Island was sold for 60.2 billion. Miluki had a budget of around 25 billion to bid for GI. It's entirely possible Miluki has enough money to bid for everything the Spiders sold assuming the eyes are supposed to be one of the more valuable items they stole. Given all the copies of the GI were donated by a single Hunter, you can basically say that guy had a net worth of 100+ billion and just gave it away. Given this is the Mafia after all they probably have their top leaders assassinated all the time. The biggest loss would probably be the handful of aura users that died. Why would Kuroro faked his death if the Mafia was in no way a threat to him? It's basically luck that Ilumi happened to kill the leadership a few seconds faster than Silva would've killed him. Sure he doesn't fear death but there sure isn't any reason to believe he was supposed to survive the attack.
    Last edited by Phantron; February 23, 2013 at 09:46 PM.

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