Sasori, Itachi and Kakazu vs Kisame, Deidara and Obito

[KingOfNight]

Kishi probably feels little need to point contradict something that is clearly illogical.

What's illogical to you. Doesn't mean it's illogical in a manga.

The problem is that you simply fail to understand the mechanics of genjutsu. That makes this discussion pointless.

Nothing to do with the point at all. I wasn't even talking about Genjutsu. The problem is that you fail to understand my posts.

[NinjaStar]

None of this makes any sense. The 3rd was called the strongest of the Kazekage...period. Deidara defeated an entirely different Gaara than the one in the war. He also had the advantage of using the villagers against him. How can Deidara "blow the shit" out of Sasori's Iron sand if he couldn't do it to regular sand? Has Deidara ever made 100 bombs simultaneously? Why didn't he just "blow the shit" out of Sasuke, whom is a single ninja.

did you honestly just say that Sakura defeated Sasori's puppets by herself? She had a Kage level ninja that was also a master puppeteer, and even then she needed a seal made especially for Sasori. Also if they didn't have an antidote, they would have both been dead in the beginning. Chiyo even said herself that the only way to counter a master puppeteer was by being one yourself. Do you honestly believe that Sasuke is more of a "tactical genius" than Sasori? Someone who is considered the greatest puppeteer of the sand and could defeat their strongest Kage at 15? Someone that created the very foundation of weapons that Sand ninja use today. He is probably the strongest ninja to come out of the Sand.

Deidara is always foolish. Him being angry at Sasuke didn't change his fighting style at all, yet Sasuke whom was weaker than Kakuzu could get within his range and defeat him. Sasori's speed is also 4.5. He isn't stationary in the slightest considering his body is a puppet with weapons attached. He is one of the fastest members of Akatsuki in fact.

If Deidara's range was so great then how did he lose to Sasuke, or even get touched for that matter? In order for Deidara to attack his opponent he has to be able to at least see him. If Sasori can see Deidara, then Sasori can reach him. You keep forgetting that Deidara and Kisame also can't attack while the are intangible so it would be useless. In order for them to attack, they have to be tangible.

None of it makes sense? Or you don't want it to make sense? Gaara became the kazekage over the two year time skip. At most he was the kazekage for 2 years and at the least he had just recently been appointed. Seeing as how Gaara's dad was a noob its not surprising that the 3rd was considering the most powerful when compared to the 4th and some 15 year old kid that just took office. You are in the wrong forums if you think anybody is going to buy the 3rd kazekage being stronger than Gaara based off of what was said years ago in this ever changing manga. You most be one of the 3 people that still believes that Hiruzen is the strongest hokage to ever live. Based on the 3rd's small to non existent shown feats Gaara stomps. Hard.

Which leads me to my next point; How do we even know what the factors of Sasori's and the 3rd's fight were? Sasuke just told the hokages not more than 5 chapters ago that he was the one that beat/killed Itachi despite the fact that everybody knows that isn't the exact truth. The whole world thinks that Sasuke defeated Orochimaru but we know that also isn't the case. So unless we see the actual fight somebody saying that "x" was beat by "y" means nothing. As for Gaara being a completely different fighter i fail to understand what you mean. Sure Gaara is more powerful but how much more? He was moving an entire desert of sand before the war and during the war he did the same thing. Its hard to gauge his improvement. My point is being Gaara wins regardless of what time he's in. Hell he would beat Sasori too just because he is a terrible match up for Sasori. Make a thread if you for some reason disagree but you're wrong on this one. Oh and just throw this in here Deidara couldn't kill Gaara because he was a jinjuriki, he was being attacked by the entire village, and he didn't use any of most powerful techs. So yeah...

Deidara didn't just blow the shit out of Sasuke because like i said earlier he was at an elemental disadvantage. And he didn't blow the sand up either because it was too strong and again he wasn't using his most powerful bombs because he didn't want to kill him. But even if he was it wouldn't matter because last time i checked Gaara was the one whom was known for having the best absolute defense in the manga...Not the featless third.

I didn't say Sakura beat Sasori by herself. I said she was pwning the puppets by herself, which she was. She didn't need chiyo's help to beat however many of the the 100 fodder puppets she destroyed. Chiyo isn't kage level. And oh so you're telling me that everybody that isn't a master puppeteer would lost to Sasori? Damn Sorry Madara; It doesn't matter that you are now the most powerful person in the manga, you aren't a puppet user so you can't beat Sasori. No. That logic is stupid. There are at least 20 people that could beat Sasori and 3 of them are on Tobi's team.

Do i honestly think Sasuke is more of a tactical genius than Sasori? YES!!!!!! Lol ninjabot would have a field day if he saw that you wrote that. What does Sasori being the strongest puppeteer(compared to Kankuro, Chiyo, and Fodder) and defeating a featless kage have to do with his feats? Naruto could just invade the sand and blow it all away with a few bijuu dama. I guess his tactics are better than Sasuke's too right? And no, the strongest to come out of the sand is Gaara. Make a thread if you disagree but again, you'll be wrong.

Him being angry at Sasuke didn't change his fighting style? So the guy that could attack from the other side of a village was being smart when he decided to just hover outside of Sasuke's range? Why didn't he just drop some c3 on his ass? Why didn't he stay mobile by flying throughout the entire sky? For whatever reason he fought differently. Databooks stats are almost completely worthless now. Or didn't you get the memo? It also says the deidara has a 4.5 in speed; the same as Sasukes. Hmmm but who was it that was having trouble with Sasuke's speed? And yes Sasori is stationary. He moves his arms, thats it. He is like Gaara, just stays in one spot moving his arms.

Sasuke reached Deidara for the reasons i have said several times now. Sasuke is a genius and Deidara was fighting like an idiot. And you forget that Deidara has a super eye that he trained that allows him to see very far which adds to range advantage over Sasori. And it seems that some of Deidara's clay creations are sentient. Remember the spiders that chased down Kakashi when they first met despite deidara flying in the opposite direction not looking back?

And are you not listening to me or anybody else? Deidara and Kisame can both use jutsus. Obito can too. He only has to become tangible to absorb or spit out something. He used the outer path jutsu while being in ghost mode. Thats all the proof you need. Discussion over.