Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/11/14 - 8/17/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 592 by BadKarma , Gintama 506 (2)

View Poll Results: Who wins?

Voters
7. You may not vote on this poll
  • EMS Madara

    6 85.71%
  • Naruto/Kabuto

    1 14.29%
New Reply
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 31 to 39 of 39

Thread: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    Fire Nation
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    The Kyuubi is massive, if it were between Madara and Hakugeki it would act as a damper of the vibrations, in effect absorbing the vibrations and dispersing it throughout its mass. And the blinding effect is as I said a matter of whether he is able to put himself behind the Kyuubi. The blinding effect is a small component of Hakugeki, the true problem is the effect of vibrations. And as has already been pointed out, if Kabuto was limited in disabling the Uchihas for mere seconds under ideal conditions, his Hakugeki is going to have pretty much zero effect on Madara aided by Kurama.
    So how do we know that his massive size can absorb the vibration ? How do you even absorb Vibration (using a living being) ? It affects the entire place so Kurama shouldn't be able to block that. It should go straight through him. And there is also the sound effect which is just as dangerous as the blinding. We don't know why the White Rage stopped with the two Uchihas, so we shouldn't assume that much. Hey now, Be it Madz, Kurama or even Hashirama. No one is taking the WR and going with "zero damage."

  2. #32
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Wonderland 8
    Country
    Bahamas
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,668
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    So how do we know that his massive size can absorb the vibration ? How do you even absorb Vibration (using a living being) ? It affects the entire place so Kurama shouldn't be able to block that. It should go straight through him. And there is also the sound effect which is just as dangerous as the blinding. We don't know why the White Rage stopped with the two Uchihas, so we shouldn't assume that much. Hey now, Be it Madz, Kurama or even Hashirama. No one is taking the WR and going with "zero damage."
    Ok, sound is a mechanical wave. Firstly, as distance increases, the energy density of the waves decreases. Should the sound collide with an object there are a few basic options; transmission, absorption, and/or redirection. In the case of Kurama, the result is like with most other things going to be attenuation, which is the sum of the energy absorbed and the energy reflected or redirected. The larger, and the greater the viscosity, or let's say thickness and density, of an object, the greater the attenuation. Whatever is left over is going to be transmitted. Sound doesn't just pass through things without any effect whatsoever, in the case of many media like air or water attenuation as a result of viscosity is negligible, this doesn't apply to Kurama. Kurama is ridiculous in size, he is going to absorb lots of sound waves and their energy, and he's going to reflect some. Just maybe he is going to transmit some, but at that point attenuation, the diminution of sound, is going to be so great that Kabuto might as well just shout at Madara. And the vibrations are also going to affect Kurama far less than the Uchiha's because he isn't surrounded by cave walls that are going to reflect the vibrations over and over back at him, but mainly because he's massive and as such can absorb far more vibrations without harmful or paralytic effects. His body would absorb and disperse the vibrations. That's how it works.
    Last edited by Impossibility; March 18, 2013 at 06:28 PM.

  3. #33
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Country
    United States
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,070
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight
    So how do we know that his massive size can absorb the vibration ? How do you even absorb Vibration (using a living being) ? It affects the entire place so Kurama shouldn't be able to block that. It should go straight through him. And there is also the sound effect which is just as dangerous as the blinding. We don't know why the White Rage stopped with the two Uchihas, so we shouldn't assume that much. Hey now, Be it Madz, Kurama or even Hashirama. No one is taking the WR and going with "zero damage."
    Hakugeki doesn't just touch something and make it vibrate. Soundwaves permeate the body and bounce around inside of it on the way out. That's why Sasuke remarked that his bones were rattling (they were literally shaking around inside of his flesh). Kurama's bones are several hundred times larger than Sasuke and Itachi's so naturally it should take more force to cause them to vibrate. Not to mention he's so big the vibrations would have to travel so far throughout his flesh and bones that they'd just lose more and more force until they die out.

    Think of it this way. If Kabuto were to punch Sasuke or Itachi, it would hurt. But if he were to punch Kurama with the same amount of force, it wouldn't. He doesn't have the muscle to make a large enough sore from his attack. And if his Hakugeki was strong enough to paralyze a giant, it would've caused Itachi and Sasuke to explode into bloody chunks as their insides would've been vibrated into nothing.
    Last edited by ninjabot; March 18, 2013 at 03:30 PM.

  4. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    Fire Nation
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,200
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    Oh fine, you two. I don't feel like getting into this too much. I'm out

  5. #35
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    30
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,917
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    The Kyuubi is massive, if it were between Madara and Hakugeki it would act as a damper of the vibrations, in effect absorbing the vibrations and dispersing it throughout its mass. And the blinding effect is as I said a matter of whether he is able to put himself behind the Kyuubi. The blinding effect is a small component of Hakugeki, the true problem is the effect of vibrations. And as has already been pointed out, if Kabuto was limited in disabling the Uchihas for mere seconds under ideal conditions, his Hakugeki is going to have pretty much zero effect on Madara aided by Kurama.
    Then when you are done explaining how vibrations work based on the laws of physics you can explain to me how you can achive lightspeed with an object that has mass, said object is a human, said object comes unharmed (same for the medium it travels trough aka the atmosphere) and then it impacts at the speed of light(or close to) on the other side with another object and half the planet(probably all of it) is not gone. What i am trying to say most of the manga is magic, not to say i have something against logic and the laws of physics but let's try to not focus to much on it when it comes to a manga.

    Now let's get back and do use some physics. I am no expert in this but i will try. First noise is tied into vibrations(and the other way around). Vibrations are propagated trough a medium and in this case air. If Kurama lifts a paw up (Madara has no idea what the jutsu is so this makes no sense) to protect Madara then that would not stop the vibrations. If the sound gets to him so should the vibrations. Not sure if said paw is going to provide protection and how much but it should not be anything of real relevance. Madara would need to be somehow locked inside a sound proof room and even then the vibrations could propagate trough the walls.
    Then even asuming Madara is going to CLOSE his eyes or have Kurama's paw in the way the vibrations alone are going to blind him by causing vibration of the eyeballs...This would cause distortion of his vision.. He is not going to see shit.
    Going by the laws of physics (that you guys whant to use) Madara is going to DIE flat on the spot. You can incapacitate a man with sound and vibrations that can't even vibrate your bones the way Sasuke discribes... The level of vibrations needed to make your bones vibrate the way Sasuke described are going to flat out kill him (so Sasuke is dead). At this point i sugest we get back to the magic way as the "laws of physics" way... Well its not going to apply to well now is it? Those laws are going to have Madara's ear dumbs destroyed and the same for his eye balls(or at least give him heavy damage and defenetly his visual ability is going to be shoot and unable to see for a long time if ever)....

    Now for Kurama... Try to understand there is no need to makes his bones vibrate or whatever.. Would sound waves get to his ears/eyes? That alone should be more then enough to disorientate Kurama. No need to flat would incapacitate it... Thing is if It can't see/ hear its not going to do much now is it? The pain and the disorientating effect of the jutsu are going to be enough.

    Now and again i am no expert in physics and vibrations/sound wave but stating this jutsu would have 0 effect on Madra with Kurama's aid is just absurd...

    Just a little info in case people did not know. We have sonic weapons curently in the real world. Obviously nothing that would make people's bones "dance" but still.
    Last edited by xXan; March 19, 2013 at 07:43 AM.

  6. #36
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Wonderland 8
    Country
    Bahamas
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,668
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    @xXan

    Most of your argument boils down to the fact that the manga has quite often thrown the laws of the natural world to the wind, I'd agree that that is often the case. But at the moment in these scenarios we're forced to use what we've seen with some logic sprinkled in. The reality is that the Hakugeki effects the victim through vibrations. We've seen what the waves were capable of in an environment in which the attack was amplified against Sasuke and Itachi, using that scenario and our logic it should be pretty obvious that the effect of an attack of the like of that magnitude would have a negligible effect on Kurama, and if Madara is shielded, or simply behind Kurama, the effect on him should also be negligible. Just because some things happen outside of the realm of the possible based on natural law doesn't mean you throw every bit of our understanding on how things work out.

  7. #37
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Country
    United States
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,070
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    This reminds me of an argument me and Franckie got into like, 4 years ago.

    He claimed that Sasuke would have no answer for Zabuza's Hidden Mist jutsu. I claimed that he'd summon snakes and sense him out using his snakes ability to sense heat through the mist, and smell things with it's weird tongue. He said "Just because they're snakes doesn't mean they work like real life snakes."

    I called bullshit then. I'm doing the same thing here. Hakugeki won't be a deal breaker against Kurama.

  8. #38
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Romania
    Age
    30
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    6,917
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    @Impossibility

    What i said there is not just about "let's now use real life physics". I did address how it would work with them to. Fact of the matter is there is no need for said vibrations to propagate trough the entire mass of Kurama to disable it (even if its not completly as it was with Sasuke).

    @ninjabot

    And? Did i say that the argument based on the laws of physics is void? I said we should not put that much faith into it as Kishi has the habit of trowing said crep out the window...
    Then i did address how said vibrations should work based on said laws... Did you noted me stating "just because they're vibrations doesn't mean they work like real life vibrations"? Hell i provided a long post on vibrations to the best of my abilities.
    Thing is (as i said in the other post) vibrations on this magniture would cripple Madara and not for 5 seconds... If you whant to use real life vibrations Madara get's 1 shoot there... Sasuke did not because its "magic"... If the vibrations are enough for his bones to virate the way he was stating his eye balls would get horible damage.. No idea if permanent but i asure you he is not going to see shit for a some time. His ear drums on the other hand would be get badly damaged. For Sasuke once the sound stoped he was 100% fine.... magic...

    Now considering Kurama is going to be in pain, can't see and can't hear its enough of a debilitating effect to create a opening. Never did i claimed that get 1 shoot because of it.
    Last edited by xXan; March 20, 2013 at 02:29 AM.

  9. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member IChallengeYou!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    873
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: EMS Madara vs Naruto and Kabuto

    http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/580/6

    OK, I had enough with this flashbang "one-shoot" bullshit.

    See this chapter? See how USELESS that attack was? Itachi could VERY WELL maintain his Susano'o, as well as coat Sasuke with it, while they both were getting hit by it! The entire attack was so puny and insignificant, it will be safe to assume that Madara is going to be minimally affected ESPECIALLY by having Kyuubi by his side. Not to mention the absolutely HILARIOUS amount of time Kabuto has to execute a lethal move. He tried but failed, and he will most definitely fail against Madara!

    Basically, that chapter there puts a nail into the coffin for your "one-shoot stun attack" strategy, so you'd better come up with something else.

    I am also not going to explain to you the basics of physics and why SIZE DOES MATTER.

    I have to admit tho, I am shocked at your reading comprehension.

    Quote Quote:
    Nothing to sugest Kurama is at half power now, absolutly nothing.
    WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT? You haven't been following what I have been saying, nor what has been stated in the manga. I suggest you take this quote and go back to read the entire chapters from where Naruto started his Kyuubi-taming training, as well as his conversation with Minato/Kushina.

    Going to completely ignore that other reply you've made to me...This alone shows your attention.
    Last edited by IChallengeYou!; March 20, 2013 at 07:47 PM.

New Reply
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts