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Thread: Claymore 137 Discussions

  1. #331
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Dark Night's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    In the grand scheme of things Rimuto was just a figurehead. All the other men seem to have escaped, to the mainland most likely.

    This is the part I don't think Miria has considered. Depending on whatever answer the rest of the Org has, she could have saved or damned her companions.

    These guys have so far managed to stalemate the other side (the ones using the Dragons' Descendants) for something like 100 years.

    I find it difficult to believe (though it's still possible) that they have been doing that through sheer fielding of far superior numbers for that long (assuming the DDs are indeed very powerful, and requiring a huge number of men to be sacrificed to bring one down).

    An average AB could mow through an army (with no gunpowder capability, assuming that would work); if the DDs are stronger than that I'm interested in seeing how the Org's side has managed to keep them off.

    Of course there are other factors such as the DDs being too few to do any significant and lasting damage, but that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact Rimuto talks about them (his side) being desperate to fill the gap.

    The question is, can the Org spare the manpower necessary to get rid off forty-odd warriors? Not sure what would happen to the trainees, but I can see the Org sparing them for some nefarious ends.
    Shiro 2

  2. #332
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Night View Post
    The question is, can the Org spare the manpower necessary to get rid off forty-odd warriors? Not sure what would happen to the trainees, but I can see the Org sparing them for some nefarious ends.
    I have created a thread about Mainland and while some points are far fetched ( liek the one where I think that they are technologically advanced ) I think there is one where I am correct - alliances.

    Here is the quote itself:
    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa
    Now let us look at Mainland situation, from what I have been able to conclude from Miria’s story is next: once there were many nation states on Mainland, but as time passed nations made alliances. And about 100 years ago on entire Mainland only two nations, two big alliances left. And in a world where you have two big superpowers ( Good example would be Axis and Allies during Second World War or NATO and Warsaw Pact during Cold War ) you will always have a war for supremacy in which the victor claim the entire world for themselves. It is logical that the only reason why war is lasting for that long is that the prize for victor is world domination, and that is always powerful motivator for either side to not back down at all. But even this is open for discussion.
    From this and the fact that Organization was able to hold off for 100 years + DoD's I can only say one thing - they probably have big military resources, other side too. So I think it will not be problem for Mainland force to muster a sizable task force from their reserves and send it to contain the situation. And I am sure that they would have some specialist troops beside ordinary soldiers to counter tougher enemies like Claymores or even an Awakened.
    Yagi please, read this and provide....
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


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  4. #333
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Either they have a superior army force at their expenses,
    or they have some sort of insanely OP weapon like atomic bombs.
    Have they developed such a technology yet, you think?

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  6. #334
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Nanozom's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    My guess is that they have a facility on the mainland where they still produce the flawed awakened and send them against the dragons as suicide troops. All it takes is to sacrifice one person to fight off a dragon.

    Until they can get the research program to work there is and until then there is all about suicide troops.

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  8. #335
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner SSJPabs's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlzap View Post
    Furthermore, Miria's logical interpretation, Clare also seems to show some understanding of other's opinions.
    Though Miria obviously had some influence on Clare, the decision was ultimately her own to calm down.
    The act was also one of mutual agreement; later Miria actually supported Clare's full-on assault by blocking Prissandra's tentacles and giving Clare an opening.
    Reconsidering, I see where you're coming from. Good point, I just wish it had been dwelt on a little more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlzap View Post
    I believe that even though a big chunk of Prissandra was taken out by Clare, the massive AO is still not dead, and will probably regenerate within a matter of seconds.
    That's when we'll see the full form of Europa and other "possible" surprises.

    As with Rubel and Dae, we still don't have it fully confirmed that Rubel is a spy. He just makes everything seem so deceiving on purpose.
    Who knows, Rubel could be a DoD himself.
    Moreover, the Rubel murdering Dae seems quite interesting. We honestly have no idea what happened to Dae and have never seen ANY Black Cards threatened before. The only case of an Organization member being harmed in Rimuto, but he was 100% defenseless and lost his head. I doubt we can assume the same with the Black Cards or Rubel though.
    I kind of hope so, I'd expected Prissandra to regenerate. I'd assumed Dae's face had something to do with an experiment, but you're right there's still a lot of mystery to Rubel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlzap View Post
    From the looks of your avatar picture, you are extremely obsessed with Roxanne.
    I suggest you tone it down a bit, or you'll end up losing an eye soon ;P
    It's the fancy hair. I like Dietrich and Anastasia too, but Roxanne tops them with the added crazy... Oh. There it went.
    Last edited by SSJPabs; April 18, 2013 at 01:14 AM.

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  10. #336
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Something else about Priscilla and 'hate'. When I use 'hate' here, I mean whatever Yagi intends it to mean, and whatever consequences it can be said to have.

    Is it appropriate to draw a connection between what Daae says about Prissy's hate (specifically how her 'hate' produces the quality of creation of matter) and the qualitative potential of youki?

    It seems that it was Priss's youki energy which has the ability to 'hold off' contamination by the destroyer, and Priss either knows it or intuitively understands it, because she used it to save Raki's life.

    Daae seems to have understood this 'creation' aspect of Priss's youki, because he applied it to resurrect the 3 dead no.1's.

    What this seems to indicate in Priss's case is that youki is malleable and shapes itself around the personality of the user. For Priss, her hate results in an application that, through youki, resists youma, and, for reasons possibly not clarified yet, can 'create'.

    It seems there is a direct correlation between what the quality of the 'hate' is and what attributes youki can manifest, almost like youki is a medium for whatever the user's personality wills to do with it.

    The distinction between offensive and defensive types also supports this analysis, because the body of a claymore builds itself around the personality of the claymore.

    So how many applications are there for youki exactly? And how unusual or radical could those applications get?

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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    From this and the fact that Organization was able to hold off for 100 years + DoD's I can only say one thing - they probably have big military resources, other side too. So I think it will not be problem for Mainland force to muster a sizable task force from their reserves and send it to contain the situation. And I am sure that they would have some specialist troops beside ordinary soldiers to counter tougher enemies like Claymores or even an Awakened.
    Yagi please, read this and provide....
    Does "Hundred Years' War" ring a bell.

  12. #338
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by tikman View Post
    Does "Hundred Years' War" ring a bell.
    Yeah, it is probably based on it, but what that have to do with anything? Those were only two nations fighting over the thron and territory of France. Here we have various nations allied in two opposite fronts, fighting for dominance. Not to mention that they use supernatural allies.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


  13. #339
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    Yeah, it is probably based on it, but what that have to do with anything? Those were only two nations fighting over the thron and territory of France. Here we have various nations allied in two opposite fronts, fighting for dominance. Not to mention that they use supernatural allies.
    If the war lasted for 100 years it could only mean that the resources and man power are as almost equal.

    You cannot justify that it is just between 2 nations. Remember "The Punic Wars" the winner became the super power of the known world.

  14. #340
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by tikman View Post
    If the war lasted for 100 years it could only mean that the resources and man power are as almost equal.
    Well yes, but that still doesn't meant that both factions doesn't have some kind of huge reserves on both sides. And as always we cannot judge if they are equal or not judging only by the war's longevity. There are just too many factors in it, until Yagi say us one day the situation we can only guess.

    For now they are not entirely equal, because one side has DoD's and the other one way ticket monster.

    Quote Quote:
    You cannot justify that it is just between 2 nations.
    Actually I can because the official hisdtory says so: "The Hundred Years' War was a series of conflicts waged from 1337 to 1453 between the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of France for control of the French throne." - Wikipedia.

    Quote Quote:
    Remember "The Punic Wars" the winner became the super power of the known world.
    At least I agree here with you, it seems that whoever wins this war will have complete dominance over the Mainland. Or so it seems...
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


  15. #341
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    I just hope they actually bother get "Claymore" over with first before they start whatever the Mainland/Avatar/Star Wars thing that they want to eventually get to.


    Just resolve the plots that people have waited many years to complete would be a nice pleasantry. I mean damn the story has already suffered enough.

  16. #342
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    Well yes, but that still doesn't meant that both factions doesn't have some kind of huge reserves on both sides. And as always we cannot judge if they are equal or not judging only by the war's longevity. There are just too many factors in it, until Yagi say us one day the situation we can only guess.

    For now they are not entirely equal, because one side has DoD's and the other one way ticket monster.



    Actually I can because the official hisdtory says so: "The Hundred Years' War was a series of conflicts waged from 1337 to 1453 between the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of France for control of the French throne." - Wikipedia.



    At least I agree here with you, it seems that whoever wins this war will have complete dominance over the Mainland. Or so it seems...
    Have you happened to watch "Berserk Golden Age Arc"? Why do you thing the war stop (ceasefire) after they capture the castle?

    "Hundred Years' War" isn't as simple as controlling the French throne as would -Wikepedia try to say. One important thing your overlooking at it lasted "100" years of conflict because both side are almost equal in terms of war potential. If it isn't it could have finished within a year or two. And if I remember correctly, after the sea battle "Edward" I think loose fund that the campaign was being halt for a time.

    The war on mainland lasted for 100 years because both side are as almost equal on both man power and resources. However let us say that the other side got some upper hand but it doesn't give then automatic victory. If it does the war should be over. Speaking of which I remember Gundam's plot between Coordinator and Naturals. Of course the Coordinator got the upper hand but it doesn't give them sure victory. It is somehow similar to that. You shouldn't say they have super power ally. WAR don't work like that. And now that it boiled down to 2 super nations there are much more complicated thing in there that you should consider. Speaking of witch patch 5.3 in WoW the troll rebellion is a good example. Vol'jin said he need tauren power but tauren chieftain said yes but he still need to ensure the safety of his people. He also suggested that he need other power than horde to storm ogrimmar. complexity.

  17. #343
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Urfaust View Post
    Something else about Priscilla and 'hate'. When I use 'hate' here, I mean whatever Yagi intends it to mean, and whatever consequences it can be said to have.

    Is it appropriate to draw a connection between what Daae says about Prissy's hate (specifically how her 'hate' produces the quality of creation of matter) and the qualitative potential of youki?

    It seems that it was Priss's youki energy which has the ability to 'hold off' contamination by the destroyer, and Priss either knows it or intuitively understands it, because she used it to save Raki's life.

    Daae seems to have understood this 'creation' aspect of Priss's youki, because he applied it to resurrect the 3 dead no.1's.

    What this seems to indicate in Priss's case is that youki is malleable and shapes itself around the personality of the user. For Priss, her hate results in an application that, through youki, resists youma, and, for reasons possibly not clarified yet, can 'create'.

    It seems there is a direct correlation between what the quality of the 'hate' is and what attributes youki can manifest, almost like youki is a medium for whatever the user's personality wills to do with it.

    The distinction between offensive and defensive types also supports this analysis, because the body of a claymore builds itself around the personality of the claymore.

    So how many applications are there for youki exactly? And how unusual or radical could those applications get?
    A bit vague on Priscilla's Yoki.
    I honestly think Priscilla uses something else besides Yoki when she fights, something else as an emergency resource, like this "hatred" that keeps coming up.
    Once again, I'll restate what I found most interesting about her:
    Whenever Priscilla is losing and getting severely damaged, she immediately has a memory or flashback of her past childhood and instantaneously becomes much more stronger and gains advantage/or completely destroys her opponent.

    As with Priscilla's Yoki, she herself stated that her Yoki was much "stronger" than that of the Destroyers' parasitic rods.
    But the parasitic rods were able to take over Beth in her human form.
    Yet Dauph was able to resist the rods for a bit before intentionally allowing them to take over him.
    So somehow Priscilla's Yoki (or perhaps her something to do with her instantaneous regenerative qualities?) simply negated the infectious effect of the rods.
    And what exactly does "stronger" in that context mean? Purer? Of better quality? Of higher degree? Or of more quantity?

  18. #344
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlzap View Post
    A bit vague on Priscilla's Yoki.
    I honestly think Priscilla uses something else besides Yoki when she fights, something else as an emergency resource, like this "hatred" that keeps coming up.
    Once again, I'll restate what I found most interesting about her:
    Whenever Priscilla is losing and getting severely damaged, she immediately has a memory or flashback of her past childhood and instantaneously becomes much more stronger and gains advantage/or completely destroys her opponent.

    As with Priscilla's Yoki, she herself stated that her Yoki was much "stronger" than that of the Destroyers' parasitic rods.
    But the parasitic rods were able to take over Beth in her human form.
    Yet Dauph was able to resist the rods for a bit before intentionally allowing them to take over him.
    So somehow Priscilla's Yoki (or perhaps her something to do with her instantaneous regenerative qualities?) simply negated the infectious effect of the rods.
    And what exactly does "stronger" in that context mean? Purer? Of better quality? Of higher degree? Or of more quantity?
    Well for me, 'quality' means the specific properties youki can have. If youki can only have quantifiable features like strength, density etc, then 'quality' means the applications a youki-user can put the youki to.

    On my view, 'hate' in the context of Priss means:

    1) a 'tap' like a kitchen sink tap that is informed by her memories. her memories are the source of hate that opens the tap completely. Another analogy for 'tap' is a volcano that can erupt (the example that Daae gives). I think her hate is the medium for how much youki she outputs. It's like gasoline to a fire, except she has an unlimited supply. When she is threatened (or when she wants to trigger it) its either a biological process that brings up her memories or her psychological makeup that does it.

    2) the quality of her youki, and the youki of other claymores, and hence their abilities (how they can apply their youki) is built over their personalities. So I'm saying that the specific 'strength' that you identified, in terms of quality (and by quality I mean what properties the youki can have, and consequently what the user can do with it) has to do with what 'emotions' (for lack of a better word) and experiences a claymore has had in their lives. Priss's youki, or her youki in addition to the way she uses it, has the quality (the property) of being able to resist or overcome infection, and 'resurrect' dead claymores (in a certain way), and this is directly related to how her hatred was produced from her experiences as a human and claymore.

    The fact that beth and dauf have differing degrees of resistance could be due to the way their personalities influenced their youki and how they apply it. it wouldn't have to be in the same sense as Priss either.

    I think that Yagi will show us why Priss's 'hatred' enables her to do what she does, and why she is able to create and resist infection, and assimilate other matter. I think he started this with her flashback, and having Daae give us hints about it, so far. Yagi might say something like because of her experiences with her father, Priss's hatred for youma is so great that it acts like infinite fuel, is of such density or strength that it resists or overcomes infection, and (perhaps) her hatred toward youma acts as the outward manifestation of self-preservation instinct, which allows her to instantaneously regenerate.

    In general, I think youki, claymorization and awakened-fication are thematically about amplifying the personality traits of the characters, in a similar sense to how an awakened being's physical form might say something about that person.

    The above is subject to the qualification that DoD flesh might be determinant of some of these things as well (like it has its own DNA).

    Daae only said that he saw a relationship between those claymores who hated yoma and an increase in strength. I think that means that hate is not the only 'emotion' that can influence the quality of youki energy or how a user applies it.

    This is all basically just speculation though

  19. #345
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brother Coa's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 137 Discussions /138 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by tikman View Post
    The war on mainland lasted for 100 years because both side are as almost equal on both man power and resources. However let us say that the other side got some upper hand but it doesn't give then automatic victory. If it does the war should be over. Speaking of which I remember Gundam's plot between Coordinator and Naturals. Of course the Coordinator got the upper hand but it doesn't give them sure victory. It is somehow similar to that. You shouldn't say they have super power ally. WAR don't work like that. And now that it boiled down to 2 super nations there are much more complicated thing in there that you should consider. Speaking of witch patch 5.3 in WoW the troll rebellion is a good example. Vol'jin said he need tauren power but tauren chieftain said yes but he still need to ensure the safety of his people. He also suggested that he need other power than horde to storm ogrimmar. complexity.
    I agree, the point what I wanted to say is this: if both sides have such massive resources than they must have massive reserves as well.
    So Organization Mainland masters can send some of those to contain situation on Claymore island.

    ---------- Post added at 10:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by fluorideconspiracy View Post
    I just hope they actually bother get "Claymore" over with first before they start whatever the Mainland/Avatar/Star Wars thing that they want to eventually get to.
    Just resolve the plots that people have waited many years to complete would be a nice pleasantry. I mean damn the story has already suffered enough.
    You know, that will not be possible quite yet. On one hand Priscilla is uber-powerful, unless half-awakening has some special power ( which probably only Rubel knows for now and I doubt he will get down there and talk to them ) this battle is pretty much in Priscilla's favor. In other words - there is no way to beat her. On the other hand many days have passed and the remaining MiB could theoretically get to the Mainland and report what happened, then if our theory is correct Mainland faction could send task force to contain the situation and they could interrupt the ongoing battle against Priscilla.

    Or Yagi could just say that half-awakening has some kind of super-power and Clare can kill Priscilla in a heartbeat. But that would be a cheap way in finishing it, at least in my opinion.
    "The universe has many horrors yet to throw at us. This is not the end of our struggle. This is just the beginning of our crusade to save Humanity. Be faithful! Be strong! Be vigilant!"

    -Emperor of Mankind.


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