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Thread: Bleach 530 Discussion

  1. #451
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarex View Post
    Yeah I get that, but wouldn't everyone with fullbring have a mask then, or do you think that Ichigos mask is his fullbring?
    no his fullbring ability is separate from his hollow side. They both draw on a similar power, but the fullbring would have been available to him even if he didnt have the mask. the mask was due- to the shattered shaft training.


    the fullbring was due, to having hollow reiatsu taint his mother while she was pregnant. and as far as we know, fullbring takes place not in spirit form, but in human form. It allowed him to manifest hollow like power in the real world not in shinigmai/hollow form but in a flesh body.

    that is a primary difference between hollow powers and fullbring. Fullbring happens in the real world, and the hollow mask is something that he has to be in spirit form to do.

    ----


    now it will be interesting to see how the fullbringers ganju and gang, operate now that they are souls in SS. but they got their powers while human so i guess it will be about the same as we saw in the human world with a few new tricks now that they are in reishi abundant SS.


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  2. #452
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Still like Darkbankai said the holy form she was learning and Old geezer Ishida disapproves of can be the absorption ability. This might explain how she beat that thing.

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  4. #453
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    no his fullbring ability is separate from his hollow side. They both draw on a similar power, but the fullbring would have been available to him even if he didnt have the mask. the mask was due- to the shattered shaft training.


    the fullbring was due, to having hollow reiatsu taint his mother while she was pregnant. and as far as we know, fullbring takes place not in spirit form, but in human form. It allowed him to manifest hollow like power in the real world not in shinigmai/hollow form but in a flesh body.

    that is a primary difference between hollow powers and fullbring. Fullbring happens in the real world, and the hollow mask is something that he has to be in spirit form to do.

    ----


    now it will be interesting to see how the fullbringers ganju and gang, operate now that they are souls in SS. but they got their powers while human so i guess it will be about the same as we saw in the human world with a few new tricks now that they are in reishi abundant SS.
    So we are on the same page for the fullbring then, what we disagree on is the holowfication part. I think there are other force at play other then Masaki absorbing the holow reaitsu, and the shattered shaft. It does explain the fullbring but not Ichigos holow side.

  5. #454
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by ReiWen View Post
    First of all the mother doesnt need to be pregnant. The manga tell us only "before we were born". So the reiatsu needs to stay long enough in the mother's body and since this hollow seems to be really strong there is no problem with its reiatsu staying in Masakis body for a long time especialy since it most likely stays in the physical and not spiritual body. Acording to those theories only Quincy could have children with fullbring. What's scary is that some people theorize that she actualy absorbed the hollow completely into her body and we never seen something like that. Quincies can just merge with their target for a limited peruod of time.

    In chapter 528 Masaki is injured this is enough for Ichigo's fllbring and as for his hollow powers it comes from Uraharas method. Aizen said that he already manipulated Ichigos growth at this point in time. He knew that Byakuya will use his favorite move to take Ichigos(rukias) shinigami powers away from Ichigo and Urahara will use the fastest method to restore his powers. Most liklely Ichigos at that time dormant fullbring most likely increased Ichigo's chances of becoming a hybrid. Wis entire sould was a mess when be was becoming a hollow so most likely all his power were actived to some degree. Otherewise thre would be no need for Ichigo to know his roots in orfer to recreate his Zan. This pretty much mean that he unknowingly used his Quincy powers to created his Zan.
    So basicaly Quincy+ Shinigami= Zan withou Asauchi
    Fullbring + Urahara= Hybrid
    As of why Ichigo hollow form looks how it looks, its simplu because the hollow reiatsu that was passed from Masaki to Ichigo took part in "helping" Ichigo to gain hollow form.
    People need to remember that Aizen said that Ichigo was a perfect test subject. He wasnt yet a complete "preject". So we cant assume that Ichigo was all god like since he was born he however had the potential to be god like and Aizen and Urahata made sure that his potential wont be wasted... at the end Urahara had more info so Aizen lost the game.
    not entirely- Nimaya was able to make his zanpaktou without an asauchi- there were no asauchi before he made one. ichigo made a bond directly with his spirit- I see no problem there-


    as for the maskai and hollow reishi- the reiatsu she got exposed to during this battle, will effect ichigo- http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/433/13

    yes yes- before they were born parents were attacked- good point.


    Be proud, that after receiving my blade you still retain the shape of a human.

  6. #455
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SoulAuron's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Slimsgt11b View Post
    Lets say we assume that hollow is ichigo's inner hollow (well there's no other excuse) and that's how he has a fullbring and inner hollow, do u think that the other fullbringers became shinigami would they have inner hollows and could become vizard. Because that's what seems to have happened to ichigo. And I have a feelin in the next 2 chapters they will make another appearance
    i believe your idea is sensible, it was my first thought, i will wait and see if it is confirmed.

    ---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, shinigami and human anatomy being the same is not the point. As far as any human legal body is concerned ishin did not exist by the time of the flashback at large yet he somehow got all the documentation to open a clinic and treat sick people. Setting aside what could be solved by copious amounts of harmless brainwashing there is the issue that while anatomy might not be an issue for ishin the fact that he learned how to heal and treat people with kido and not with standard human techniques is an issue here.

    The key in regards to ryuken is that while the manga has lasted he has never given a damn about the future of the quincy. My point would be that ryuken changed his mind regarding quincy and their purpose as he grew up. His words to ishida about quincy training were "I have no interesting and you have no talent". The talent part is unimportant and also likely untrue however the part of him not having interest is perfectly consistent with him not living a quincy live. He is a full time doctor who runs and owns an entire hospital and is capable of performing live saving surgery proficiently. He is a extreme opposite to soken who appeared to be a hobo living in the woods at best in the few flashbacks we saw him. From ryuken's perspective ishida currently is a brat who wants to play hero and perhaps he himself was like that during the time of the timeskip. As an adult he would have come to the realization that there is no practical reason for him to spend his time fighting hollows when a military organization is already doing at it without sacrificing souls to oblivion.
    yes, yes that may be right about ryuken, it seems logical and likely, as for ishins medical shit, documents wuld not be such a problem and he could have learned whatever else was needed since we dont know exactly how long it was between this flashback and the start of the story, remember that when ichigo was a kid and masaki had already died he was only then opening the clinic, so he hasnt had it for a long time (refer to the death of orihime's brother for this info).

    ---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Vaizards aren't, since they were incomplete transformations, unlike Tousen. It wouldn't violate the timeline, though, since this flashback occurred years after the failed Vaizard Hollowfications.
    we dont know that for shure, it was never said it is absolutely impossible, but i seems likely that they cant.

  7. #456
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    not entirely- Nimaya was able to make his zanpaktou without an asauchi- there were no asauchi before he made one. ichigo made a bond directly with his spirit- I see no problem there-


    as for the maskai and hollow reishi- the reiatsu she got exposed to during this battle, will effect ichigo- http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/433/13

    yes yes- before they were born parents were attacked- good point.
    Of course it will affect Ichigo since she was injured... maybe if the hollow would be weaker it wouldnt have any effect.

    And not not really. Ouetsu said that there was no shinigami. So he also is included in his words. He knew that there is an inner spirit and its have power and all and he found a way to use that power. The namga gives us no indication that he created his Zan before he createt Asauchi

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  9. #457
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by ReiWen View Post
    Of course it will affect Ichigo since she was injured... maybe if the hollow would be weaker it wouldnt have any effect.

    And not not really. Ouetsu said that there was no shinigami. So he also is included in his words. He knew that there is an inner spirit and its have power and all and he found a way to use that power. The namga gives us no indication that he created his Zan before he createt Asauchi

    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/529/5

    As per this page- ever since the beginning of soul society not even one shinigami was able to awaken their zanpaktou without one of his asauchi-
    Upon reflection - I am willing to concede that even nimaya needed to use one of his asauchi to awaken his zanpaktou-

    However, this would leave two alternatives for ichigo-
    1. that he made his own asauchi to awaken his zanpaktou and that it is now broken into pieces. - which would mean he needs to make another one.
    If he made his own asauchi, using the stupid looking blade he had when he took rukias powers, the one that had the traditional hilt before he learned zangetsus name, then it would fulfill the requirement of using an asauchi, to awaken his own shinigami spirit, and he did fight with it, until he nearly died, and then urahara saved him and put him in the shattered shaft. so it all kinda fits. even if ichigo didnt make the asauchi, perhaps the hyogoku helped a bit on that part, which may explain why rukia didnt transfer part of her power, the Hyogoku used all her power.

    2. that he was able to awaken his zanpaktou without an asauchi altogether- perhaps due to his powers being awakend both by rukia and the hyogoku within her when she transferred her power to him. - if the second option is how, then for ichigo to regain power, would he need to find his soul and recreate that moment with rukia, only instead of using her blade to pierce his soul, I wonder if he needs to use one of nimayas asauchi.

    He fought each one. striking back instinctively as seen here-
    http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/520/15

    so if he gets back to nimaya after this flashback arc, gets another shot at the asauchi- will he then realize he cannot strike back? will ichigo decide that its his turn to take the hits for zangetsu, to do for zangetsu what zangetsu did for him? to awaken zangetsu who only wanted to protect ichigo- will ichigo then have to draw zangetsu back from oblivion and allow the asauchi to impale his very soul? -- Nimaya said that asauchi were the strongest able to become anything. In ichigos case so far that was prevented because he fought the asauchi, he didnt allow them into his soul. so he kept the asauchi from his spirit. If he lets one in, according to nimaya it can become anything, even zangetsu.

    will this happen? I dont know- but it will be interesting to find out.
    Last edited by DarkBankai; March 22, 2013 at 09:08 PM.


    Be proud, that after receiving my blade you still retain the shape of a human.

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  11. #458
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity llamapie's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by ca12nag3 View Post
    Still like Darkbankai said the holy form she was learning and Old geezer Ishida disapproves of can be the absorption ability. This might explain how she beat that thing.
    Theory:

    She absorbed it and its soul manifested as Ichigo's hollow when he was born. Calling it now. The similarity can't be a coincidence. Could quite possibly be the secret to his insane reatsu. Basically his parents are Shinigami, Quincy, and Hollow.

    My other thought is that Quincy abilities are similar to Full bringer, as we've seen Ishida use items to boost his power, they just have a much stronger control over reatsu.
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  12. #459
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    On Hollow vs. Fullbring...

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/476
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/476/2

    Ginjou gives the Hollow attack on his mother as the reason for having Hollow powers, true Hollow powers that allowed him to use Cero. So going by this, it does seem that Ichigo's Fullbring and Hollow power could have originated from the same source. It's weird that Ginjou's Hollow powers look nothing like anything we've seen before him though. No Vaizard mask, just the eyes, white hair, and facial markings. Also it seemed to be an actual part of his Bankai, which oddly enough he performed without even having a Zanpakuto, unless his Fullbring was his Zanpakuto, but does that make sense? Weird that a guy who, just like Ichigo, was a substitute Shinigami, who possibly never had an Asauchi either, and also was a Fullbringer with a Bankai and Hollow powers should just come and then get killed and that's it. I'm sure he'll make an appearance in this arc, but there's so much mystery around him that I hope there's an explanation.

    But then I happened on this page

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/430/18

    Where Ryuuken's talking about Ginjou's residual reiatsu from where he cut Ishida. He evidently can't see any traces of anything resembling Hollow power in it, which raises the question of just how close to Hollow power Fullbring even is. Hmmm....

  13. #460
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    On Hollow vs. Fullbring...

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/476
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/476/2

    Ginjou gives the Hollow attack on his mother as the reason for having Hollow powers, true Hollow powers that allowed him to use Cero. So going by this, it does seem that Ichigo's Fullbring and Hollow power could have originated from the same source. It's weird that Ginjou's Hollow powers look nothing like anything we've seen before him though. No Vaizard mask, just the eyes, white hair, and facial markings. Also it seemed to be an actual part of his Bankai, which oddly enough he performed without even having a Zanpakuto, unless his Fullbring was his Zanpakuto, but does that make sense? Weird that a guy who, just like Ichigo, was a substitute Shinigami, who possibly never had an Asauchi either, and also was a Fullbringer with a Bankai and Hollow powers should just come and then get killed and that's it. I'm sure he'll make an appearance in this arc, but there's so much mystery around him that I hope there's an explanation.

    But then I happened on this page

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/430/18

    Where Ryuuken's talking about Ginjou's residual reiatsu from where he cut Ishida. He evidently can't see any traces of anything resembling Hollow power in it, which raises the question of just how close to Hollow power Fullbring even is. Hmmm....
    I think the same thing happened to Ichigo (mother with Hollow reiatsu) except the Hollow was that Arrancar/Vasto Lorde instead of any normal Hollow.
    Hence Ichigo has a much more powerful Hollow side than Ginjo.

  14. #461
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Render View Post
    Hey, some of us love Inoue as a character.
    Definately something I can agree with you on!
    In a world full of freaks she seems like one of the very few characters with human like traits to me, (... minus the Kurosaki-kun thing)
    My Deviant Art
    But don't expect any Manga drawing here, haven't done that in a long time.

  15. #462
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    I've said it before and will say it again Fulbringers and Quincy are 2 sides to the same coin
    Spoiler show

  16. #463
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by llamapie View Post
    Theory:

    She absorbed it and its soul manifested as Ichigo's hollow when he was born. Calling it now. The similarity can't be a coincidence. Could quite possibly be the secret to his insane reatsu. Basically his parents are Shinigami, Quincy, and Hollow.

    My other thought is that Quincy abilities are similar to Full bringer, as we've seen Ishida use items to boost his power, they just have a much stronger control over reatsu.
    Quincy use items to store it, and all quincy can absorb reatsu, then manipulate it. Fullbringers cannot do this and in essence are far weaker. They need an object that is emotionally linked to them to manifest their power. (object can also be a part of your body-something your deepest emotions lie within)
    Quincy are not that limited and simply use artifacts to channel their absorbed power with, they are hardly the same. Also losing the object they have little or no chance to recover their power. A Fullbringer will be handicapped. Due to her ability and the similarity with hachi , Orihime could recover it herself but thats about it.
    Another thing that is now far more interesting is that both Ichigo and Ginjo had the ability to absorb power. Thus i say both possibly have a quincy parent.

  17. #464
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    I've said it before and will say it again Fulbringers and Quincy are 2 sides to the same coin
    You could like back that thesis up with some kind of facts, panels, commentry, hints, etc ?
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  19. #465
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    Re: Bleach 530 Discussion / 531 Predictions *No Chapter This Week (19/03)*

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    You could like back that thesis up with some kind of facts, panels, commentry, hints, etc ?
    I will for him:

    We have seen Quincy use items to channel their power right? I don't see it any differently. The glove and the star shaped talisman he uses are all similar to full bring. Also how Ginjo absorbed Ichigo's fullbring is similar to the absorption that the Quincy use. So ya seems like fullbring are at least a cousin to the Quincy in terms of how they function.
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