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Thread: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

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    Mangahelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ghostexiled's Avatar
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    How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    This is a thread for those that wish to discuss in the MOST civil and respectful manner, their thoughts and opinions on how they think FT falls short and/or how it gets it right.

    Again, this is NOT a thread to bash, flame or fight... but to have an actual discussion on these topics.

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    All I could wish for is, that Mashima (a) shouldn't ever again introduce anime filler stuff into his work and (b) could give a little more background information within the story. Currently it's mostly only plot development and battles - which isn't bad at all. But for me as one who buys the volumes, it's rather unsatisfying to learn most little facts like Mirajane's family name through the LucyXMira talk of the volumes, and not by reading the chapters only

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    That seems more like a marketing decision by the publisher and maybe just a tradition in the format of a manga volume.

    I can imagine a monthly meeting where the mangaka gets told to put the non-sensational background information in a special page outside the chapters. I can also imagine some readers getting impatient with non-essential stuff (in their eyes) in a chapter.

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    1. Villains- I'm not sure FT has ever had a true villain. They all had potential, Honestly Hades was good at start and come to find out his secret was in the same boat he was in. Oh. I can't forget..He was taken down by natsu's borrowed power at the time. In the beginning of the series, villains were slightly better than later on. I can't really think of good one. I'll give Jellal is slight pass..He was average villain compared to the ones, I've read about in other manga but for FT IMO, I thought he was one of the better ones. I'm hoping zeref or somebody else will prove me wrong in the future.

    2. Overrated characters- I don't like when characters are hyped and taken down by FT in one chapter..It is always the power of feelings, fine I understand that. I only want the titles given to certain characters to at least try to live up to it. Continuously hyping FT's opponents, only to show how strong FT is..NOT working for me. I already know, it does not need to repeat itself in the same fashion every time.

    3.The fights in Ft are one dimensional as ever.. It goes along the line of what I've said above. I can't understand why they don't need strategy or certain tactics to make it more interestin. Introducing the fights in the same manor, almost always FT get their a** handed and spontaneously recovering within the same chapter because of the same speech.Why? What is the purpose or challenge? To celebrate later on and break things or try to develop character growth. Obviously, I don't see character development in these battles. Of course, character growth doesn't always have to happen this way either but it would be nice to know at least one person from Ft learned something through battle experience. Besides the same friendship BS..

    This is all I can think of right now..
    I have a black-belt in sarcasm, a degree in smartass and experienced in Bitch. Yep, I am damn ninja..

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by liductan View Post
    1. Villains- I'm not sure FT has ever had a true villain. They all had potential, Honestly Hades was good at start and come to find out his secret was in the same boat he was in. Oh. I can't forget..He was taken down by natsu's borrowed power at the time. In the beginning of the series, villains were slightly better than later on. I can't really think of good one. I'll give Jellal is slight pass..He was average villain compared to the ones, I've read about in other manga but for FT IMO, I thought he was one of the better ones. I'm hoping zeref or somebody else will prove me wrong in the future.
    You really need to define what you mean by "true villain". It's rather difficult to tell from this exactly what your complaint with Fairy Tail's villains is. Do you mean irredeemably evil for the sake of evil villains? Villains that last for multiple arcs? Something else?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member liductan's Avatar
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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krono View Post
    You really need to define what you mean by "true villain". It's rather difficult to tell from this exactly what your complaint with Fairy Tail's villains is. Do you mean irredeemably evil for the sake of evil villains? Villains that last for multiple arcs? Something else?
    If I take into account..Yes, I mean irredeemably and multiple arcs. Lets see(I am not good at explaining things thoroughly, I will do my best to convey this).I mean not pathetic attempts like sabertooth, raven tail, phantom..( I know they are not really villains).They are sooo simple..Arrogance and hunger for power. Then you have zero, which he came out of nowhere IMO. I didn't even understand his purpose, only for natsu to get rid of..Who else Lauxus was part of FT? Need I say more? I don't want to talk about the edolas at all... What I am trying to get at, why does it seem so easy for FT to handle their enemies or isn't just me. Most of them just wanted to show, they are better than FT. It's like they are brainless and serve no purpose.. What exactly did they do or accomplish?

    Oh, yeah.. so far zeref is a cry baby..
    I have a black-belt in sarcasm, a degree in smartass and experienced in Bitch. Yep, I am damn ninja..

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    Fight were way more interesting at the start. Last couple of chapters, Mashima didn't even show most of the fighting (but on the other hand, Natsu and others fighting the fodder guards was too important not to show). This fight of Erza's, started great. But now, we are shown that she was just trolling Minerva and could have possibly defeated her and Kagura at the same time.
    What I don't get is how Mashima isn't tired of repeating the same template of emotional resolve in battles, especially after doing it through his entire other work, Rave.

    On the other hand, not a lot of artist can produce epic moments the way Mashima does. I guess you need to take the bad with the good.

    Heh
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    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by liductan View Post
    1. Villains- I'm not sure FT has ever had a true villain. They all had potential, Honestly Hades was good at start and come to find out his secret was in the same boat he was in. Oh. I can't forget..He was taken down by natsu's borrowed power at the time. In the beginning of the series, villains were slightly better than later on. I can't really think of good one. I'll give Jellal is slight pass..He was average villain compared to the ones, I've read about in other manga but for FT IMO, I thought he was one of the better ones. I'm hoping zeref or somebody else will prove me wrong in the future.

    2. Overrated characters- I don't like when characters are hyped and taken down by FT in one chapter..It is always the power of feelings, fine I understand that. I only want the titles given to certain characters to at least try to live up to it. Continuously hyping FT's opponents, only to show how strong FT is..NOT working for me. I already know, it does not need to repeat itself in the same fashion every time.

    3.The fights in Ft are one dimensional as ever.. It goes along the line of what I've said above. I can't understand why they don't need strategy or certain tactics to make it more interestin. Introducing the fights in the same manor, almost always FT get their a** handed and spontaneously recovering within the same chapter because of the same speech.Why? What is the purpose or challenge? To celebrate later on and break things or try to develop character growth. Obviously, I don't see character development in these battles. Of course, character growth doesn't always have to happen this way either but it would be nice to know at least one person from Ft learned something through battle experience. Besides the same friendship BS..

    This is all I can think of right now..
    ^ What he said

    I've been lately criticizing more Fairy Tail. Yes, I know about power of feelings. I honestly got it quite clear...when Lucy hinted the definition of "1 Magic" or the source of magic, The one HADES "KICK ASS STRONG GUY" was even looking for it. It's Love.

    But if you repeat the same thing over n over like the way things been going lately it becomes boring...not to mention predictable ?

    Where is the excitement and joy I used to have when I was waiting for the next chapter ? ...This is all gone, because I already know how things will end now.

    Despite all that...I'm still going to read Fairy Tail obviously. i don't read any other its my first and only Manga anyway....I hope with the coming Arc things get better, and it should because now it'll be more related to the story more than ever.
    Dreyar Style

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    Then you should give Rave a chance. It's Mashima's first work. Has around 300 chapters and many of it's characters served as an inspiration for Fairy Tail. In some ways it's better than Fairy Tail.

    Heh
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    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    I too love FT, but obviously it has a lot of flaws, which I think started recently.
    In fact I know for sure that Mashima is being "forced" to follow a certain path due to his manager.
    I am not making things up, I've read something along those lines in the volumes I bought.
    Anyway he should start remembering what he did with Rave, because I think that's the only way to make FT an even greater manga.
    Last edited by Zasz; March 09, 2013 at 09:40 AM.

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    Re: Fairy Tail 322 Discussion / 323 Predictions

    Sorry for staying off-topic with this post, but this may not stay unanswered.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    I can guarantee that some people who pay for the manga do, but Japan counts the most. I have a feeling they might have a better reaction to it but what do I know. I'm not going to drop FT or anything, because I'm reading it for free and it only takes a few minutes to read and I've came this far. But I call it like I see it. I thought this was poorly written. Besides, we both know that as long as we read something or watch something we are entitled to our opinions on each episode/chapter.
    Then compare yourself:

    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...by-series/2011
    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...by-series/2012

    Only 600,000 volumes less sold, and stayed in Top 5, and comparing to other Top 10 long-running series, within one year, Fairy Tail didn't lose as much readers - if I see this correctly, only Naruto lost less.

    From Feb 11 to Mar 2, Fairy Tail 36 brought 368,675 copies into circulation within 3 weeks. Fairy Tail 35 brought 373,216 units into circulation within 4 weeks. Standard versions only, without OVA-DVD.

    Last year's Fairy Tail 31: 358,061 copies from Feb 13, 2012 to Mar 4. Again three weeks.

    So, what did you just say? As of now nothing is pointing towards a "reader's uproar". Fairy Tail sales are stable.

    BTW, I'm buying the German volumes, which are translated pretty well. And all I'm "pissed off", is readers like you. You're not buying anything, neither literally nor figuratively.

    As benelori pointed out, Mashima apparenty knows very well, what his Fairy Tail audience expects, and delivers what they want. How wouldn't he know, as he comed to San Diego's ComicCon overseas regularly, at least he was there in 2008 and 2011. He wouldn't if there was any hatred showing up.

    So either you put some more time into Fairy Tail than "few minutes to read" or you drop it. Because you are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Having Second Origin in reverse is weird. There was never a comment saying you could use it as some kind of release, or that you can reserve it, it needs to be explained but it won't be, so it feels like some kind of asspull. More to the point it still makes zero sense to let your opponent smack you around before using it especially when your leg was crushed by a boulder. That's just toying with the expectations of your readers. Also, Ikaruga destroyed many of Erza's armors in that fight, and they all come back. She can re-form them. And I doubt Erza can't normally use that armor without Second Origin, especially considering how much damage she let herself take before even releasing Second Origin.
    Read Ultear's explanations about Second Origin, damnit! It's explained there. Once the "first container" is depleted, the mage can access the second container. Even if there's still some power left in the first container, all the mage needs to do is using up the power. That's a no-brainer to figure out.

    And no. Once Elsa's armors are broken, she needs to buy a new one, and each version looks different. The Tenrin armor was smashed by Ikaruga, and against Evergreen she had a different chest part. Kureha armor, first used in chapter 21, crushed by José in chapter 64, and looking different in chapter 121.

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    Yeah, the manga Fairy Tail needs much more Jiggle Butt...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zasz View Post
    In fact I know for sure that Mashima is being "forced" to follow a certain path due to his manager.
    There is no manager. Kodansha sees that tankoubon sells are almost perfectly stable now for two years, and that Fairy Tail also does pretty good outside of Japan.

    I never felt that Rave was extraordinary good - good, yes but actually nothing that keeps it above Fairy Tail. And when Lucia came up, actually I stopped reading, skipped most of it and jumped to the end that showed one of those villains that showed up for more than one arc but who was just as pathetic as all villains who have to fail ultimately. And really I don't feel like, I have missed something, after reading several exerpts of this second half. Some nice characters maybe, but nothing important to the plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Maco View Post
    I can imagine a monthly meeting where the mangaka gets told to put the non-sensational background information in a special page outside the chapters. I can also imagine some readers getting impatient with non-essential stuff (in their eyes) in a chapter.
    Well, Fairy Tail is running pretty long now, so all Mashima probably hears is "Tankoubon Sells are stable now for the last two years, there aren't any major complaints from your/our target audience, and nothing indicates you're going to lose readers from there. We trust you, just keep up the good work. Thank you." But not from the publisher Kodansha. He for sure has weekly meetings with the Magazine editors. "Bakuman." sure is a Jump POV, but it shouldn't be much different in Shounen Magazine, nor Shounen Sunday.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Fairy Tail 322 Discussion / 323 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    Sorry for staying off-topic with this post, but this may not stay unanswered.



    Then compare yourself:

    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...by-series/2011
    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...by-series/2012

    Only 600,000 volumes less sold, and stayed in Top 5, and comparing to other Top 10 long-running series, within one year, Fairy Tail didn't lose as much readers - if I see this correctly, only Naruto lost less.

    From Feb 11 to Mar 2, Fairy Tail 36 brought 368,675 copies into circulation within 3 weeks. Fairy Tail 35 brought 373,216 units into circulation within 4 weeks. Standard versions only, without OVA-DVD.

    Last year's Fairy Tail 31: 358,061 copies from Feb 13, 2012 to Mar 4. Again three weeks.

    So, what did you just say? As of now nothing is pointing towards a "reader's uproar". Fairy Tail sales are stable.

    BTW, I'm buying the German volumes, which are translated pretty well. And all I'm "pissed off", is readers like you. You're not buying anything, neither literally nor figuratively.

    As benelori pointed out, Mashima apparenty knows very well, what his Fairy Tail audience expects, and delivers what they want. How wouldn't he know, as he comed to San Diego's ComicCon overseas regularly, at least he was there in 2008 and 2011. He wouldn't if there was any hatred showing up.

    So either you put some more time into Fairy Tail than "few minutes to read" or you drop it. Because you are wrong.



    Read Ultear's explanations about Second Origin, damnit! It's explained there. Once the "first container" is depleted, the mage can access the second container. Even if there's still some power left in the first container, all the mage needs to do is using up the power. That's a no-brainer to figure out.

    And no. Once Elsa's armors are broken, she needs to buy a new one, and each version looks different. The Tenrin armor was smashed by Ikaruga, and against Evergreen she had a different chest part. Kureha armor, first used in chapter 21, crushed by José in chapter 64, and looking different in chapter 121.

    Okay buddy....first of all I never said anything about sales. I don't see how you can deny this chapter has upset people. Haven't you read this discussion lol? And it's not just here, it's everywhere. I'm not saying every single person who reads Fairy Tail hates this chapter, I'm saying it's generally not a very popular one. Seriously, go on Youtube and try and find a review that says this is the best thing ever. Maybe you can, but I bet you'll see a lot of reviews expressing disappointment. And honestly I don't care about sales, it doesn't mean anything about quality to me. DBZ's sales have been surpassed by One Piece I believe, but I guess you could still say it's the most popular franchise ever, and honestly in terms of story and depth it deteriorates after awhile. Fairy Tail's sales do well because of fanservice, plus Japan does not have the same tastes and preferences as the rest of the world.

    Also, a manga's sales can't drop the moment an arc takes a bad turn......that's just not possible. They did drop a little, but this series is young compared to Naruto, that series is likely losing more readers than FT because it's dragged on for so long, some may have gotten bored with it. But I was never talking about sales. Also I don't think the anime has done that well in terms of sales according to what some people have been saying in the anime discussion. But again, don't care about sales. If they say anything for the quality of the product, then Twilight is one of the best books ever written.....just think about that for a second.

    Show me were Erza says she has to buy new armor. It doesn't matter if they appear slightly different in later chapters, that could be Mashima just altering the design a bit, authors do that. After all, if it's a different armor, then why does it have the same name with the same ability? And look at Ikaruga's fight, so many of Erza's armors got broken, and I know they all appeared later looking the same or maybe slightly different. I can read just fine. And either way, what I said about her armors before still stands.....I don't recall her ever saying " This is my new armor that I bought just recently, that is even stronger than blahblahblah." Erza participating in this entire tournament until now without Second Origin is lame, the 7 year gap didn't even effectively make other enemies stronger then, because I'm sure if she was in top condition she would have won without it. If there's a panel where Urtear says you can save it til later, then show me, but either way Erza saving it like that cheapens all of her battles even more IMO.

    And how many times have I pointed out that I'm not buying them? What's the point of you pointing it out anyway? Does me not buying them mean I'm not allowed to form an opinion on each chapter I read? It means I HAVE to enjoy each chapter and say it's the best damn thing I've ever read in the entire series? That's like telling me I can't form an opinion on a TV show just because I didn't buy it's dvd volumes. Chill man. My criticism has been constructive. I'm not blindly hating on this franchise. I didn't even insult Hiro Mashima, I just said this chapter was poorly written. I don't believe he does every single thing his fans want either, although there is obviously a lot of fanservice. I don't participate in flame wars, but especially if it's simply because I don't like every single thing that happens in FT. Your basically telling me I'm not allowed to use my head to think about something I read, and that I should just blindly follow it and like it.
    Last edited by exacta; March 09, 2013 at 02:36 PM.

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    Re: Fairy Tail 322 Discussion / 323 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Okay buddy....first of all I never said anything about sales.
    Wrong. You talked about "paying for the manga". Which is talking about either magazine or Tankoubon sales. As the Shounen Magazine doesn't have TOC votings to determine which series to continue or to end, the major aspect to look for are the Tankoubon sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Fairy Tail's sales do well because of fanservice, plus Japan does not have the same tastes and preferences as the rest of the world.
    Only superficially. It may give a boost, but fan service doesn't keep manga running within the Top 10 tankoubon sales for years. Not on a weekly base, nor by selling more than 4,000,000 tankoubon copies a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Also, a manga's sales can't drop the moment an arc takes a bad turn......that's just not possible.
    Wrong. Proven by Bleach and the Fullbring arc. ToC votings went horrible. Tankoubon sales went down (almost halved in 2012). TV show was cancelled. Bleach is THE example what happens if an author messes with his audience.

    Nothing of this happened with Fairy Tail.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Show me were Erza says she has to buy new armor.
    Chapter 105, page 12, upper right panel. Elsa complains about her new Heartkreuz armor. The one she wears because Kagura destroyed the old one in chapter 90. Fairy Hills omake showed, where she keeps her armors and weaponary, so they are forged in Earthland at some point and not just summoned out of nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    And how many times have I pointed out that I'm not buying them? I What's the point of you pointing it out anyway? Does me not buying them mean I'm not allowed to form an opinion on each chapter I read?
    You were the one bringing up that people won't be willing to pay anymore for the manga. You obviously can't make up your mind why people are actually willing to buy FT volumes, while admitting you only read scanlation of Fairy Tail.

    So obviously your theory people are going to stop reading Fairy Tail because there is some uproar by some people somewhere in the internet has a major flaw.

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    Re: How FT falls short and how it gets it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Then you should give Rave a chance. It's Mashima's first work. Has around 300 chapters and many of it's characters served as an inspiration for Fairy Tail. In some ways it's better than Fairy Tail.
    Spoiler show
    Dreyar Style

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