Tobi the walking plot hole

[xXan]

Let's see here:

Nr.1- He can shoot insane Katons but he has a mask on... Why not make a hole where the mouth is or lift it a bit to use them? Yeah i am sure he is stuck somewhere between the iq of a cat and that of a monkey:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/600/15

Nr.2 He has some insane Katon firewall (Uchiha tech) but to the point the plot allows him to use it he decides its a bat idea to use it....

Nr.3 He aparenly needs to be solid to warp people... Hmm does he really:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/475/10
Just about half of his lower boddy is underground and he inside that bug boy's upper body vest/costume thing (or whatever it is).

Nr.3 He can use Mokuton to stop Chakra Mode Naruto in level 2 but he dicides its a better idea to trap Minato with a bloody CHAIN....

Nr.4 He can turn intangible but not when Madara(with Juubi) is nuking the place... No sir at that point as the plot demands it he can't so Kishi has a good excuse as to why Madara is not just nuking the hell out of them. Right here:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/614/6

Nr.5 Tobi could have got all the Jins by himself by warping inside all the villages and giving them a high 5 but decides that using his powers like that would be a bad idea... I mean why should he take the logical easy way out when he can do it the hard way eh?

Nr.6 Obito can't swing his fan when Naruto really, really whants to smash his face and remove said mask... No sir:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/598/14

Well look at that... He has that fan IN HIS HAND, they have time to chat before the hit but for some reason he had to get hit there...

Nr. 7 Obito now knows how to use the rinnegan resurecting crep and even has Kabuto for Edo Tensei but resurecting Rin in the real world never crossed his mind.... He probably knows deep down in his hearth that Rin is never going to like him... If its not a dream its not going to happen... Like seriously...
Well the rinnegan would aparently kill him but how about ET jutsu? He would have rin at prime age for the rest of his bloody life... I mean wtf? Who would not love to have a GF that never ages? Damn you Obito... He can even put 1 of them contrl kunai to force her to shut up when he feels like or make her have any type and at any time lots of emm... Well you know.... He can even make her clean up the house...

Nr.8 Obito decides its a great idea to have all the Uchiha wiped out... I wonder what Madara is going to say when he finds out lol....

Nr.9 It its clearly showed that Tobi can make intangible just dfirent parts of his body and its clearly showed that he can use jutsus when intangible but Kishi told us (trough caracters) that Madara can't attack if he is not 100% solid... Like why? Why not turn his torso intangible to avoid whatever attack and swing his bloody arm that is tangible? How about use jutsus? He showed to be able to activate Izanagi, use chakra chains, control realms with the power of his eyes...

So emmm did i miss anything? do you guys have more?

[Xiraiya]

While I don't disagree with some of your points, I think it's a bit too early at this stage to include Masked Man during the Kyuubi attack, while I'm quite sure it's Obito, it was a long time ago and he seemed very different from the Tobi we know now, as in how he fought was completely different, whether or not he had already developed the Jutsu he knows now, we can't say, there are still some mysteries in regards to him in general especially with the fact he has switched between two different characters throughout the timeline, the Tobi who had long hair and wore regular clothes, and the Tobi we know, with short hair and a hooded robe.

[DevilsNeverCry]

Seriously, after reading the manga, you don't think that Obito was responsible for the Kyuubi attack...he had a flashback that confirmed it...

But yeah, the biggest plothole is him not just using his warp ability, he could have made the plan a reality like 16 plus years ago.

I aren't sure of his motivations in helping to eliminate the Uchiha either, maybe because if they had mangekyou they could escape Moons Eye?

[M3J]

One thing I don't get is why Kishi decided to jampack him with powers and plotify him into not using it for some reason. Might as well just keep Rinnegan away from him or say that Rinnegan usage was limited for him for some reason. Better than him being able to use all Rinnegan jutsu but not using it for chakra reasons, especially when he had good opportunities to use it.

[chilibun]

Well, not to say Obito is well written by Kishi, lets refute or at least argue against some of you're claims.

3) You can't really tell by the picture whether Tobi is still half way in the ground or not when he warped him, so for consistency sake, lets just assume he is already completely out of the ground.

4) Obito is physically connected to the Juubi to control it. Let's say he can't just go intangible at this point because there is a chance the Juubi might go out of control if he isn't actively controlling it at all times. This also explains why he and Madara just stood there like idiots while that lame ass Neji bird came at them. God that was such a stupid idea...

6) It's Naruto! He has a -1000 IQ deduction aura against all his opponenets. All his opponents has become retards when the plot calls for him to hit them with clone/rasengans. Obito isn't the only one that this happens to.

7) Well, his beef is that the current world is hell. He might still revive Rin, but after he has completely rewritten it to his idea of the perfect world. No point in summoning the one you love to hell.

8) Madara probably doesn't give a shit at this point after the Uchiha's forsook him. He hasn't shown he has any love for the Uchiha's at this point. Pllus he is supposedly creating a perfect world and the Uchihas could be revived to his vision of them.

All your other claims can be attributed to Kishi creating an OP power he doesn't know how to counter so he makes inconsistent BS along the way.

[1337 haxor]

1 and 2 are just Kishimoto being silly and having cool looks prevail over reason.

I suppose Obito never had a hole in the mouth because he was paranoid about people finding out his identity, the fact his face is divided between scars and bishieness right in the middle where his mouth is would be a risky give away of him not being Madara.

As for the fire barrier technique and other which don't need the mouth, depending on which media your take for he has already demonstrated he has such abilities. In general, it amounts to Kishimoto being lazy but Tobi rarely fought on the frontlines and he probably deemed most non-mouth based Katon techniques to be useless against people like Minato or a bijuu Naruto.

3- He only needs a part of him capable of using Kamui to be solid when attacking, because "intangibility" and warping are different techniques of Kamui, he can warp people and be part intangible as long as his eye is on the right dimension.

Blink and you miss but Minato nearly always hit him in the head while Obito probably didn't have enough control back them to keep his whole body from changing dimensions instead of just part of it.

In the flashback with Rin he barely could hold her because his control of Kamui was still poor and because his fight with Minato took place just one year or two in the future, Tobi was nowhere near as good as he is during the present.

3.2- As for the Mokuton I think there where three reasons:

-First, we got Obito's paranoia with his identity theft so much so that using the Mokuton would force him to create an explanation to Minato as to how Madara came to possess this ability and that was too risky to carry out in a fight with a top class Hokage.

-Second, Minato is a speed demon, the Mokuton is powerful but what good those slow tress would do against a teleport addict.

-Third and most important, Obito was still conflicted as hell as his flashback indicated. We were shown how his attack on Konoha were his moral event horizon and how he had to repeat to himself his fanatical resolution while facing his teacher.

Case in point, I think Obito couldn't go all out against Minato because he still cared for him deep inside and capturing him alive with Kamui would help ease his consciousness not to mention give him leverage to crush Konoha forever. Minato dying probably left him even more determined to throw away reality afterwards.

4-As chilibun pointed out, Madara and Obito were sitting ducks because they needed to control the Juubi all the time. If Obito became intangible he would cut off his connection and the Juubi would go rampant, there is also the fact the Juubi is too freaking huge for Obito to use Kamui and make the whole beast intangible.

5-This is the biggest wft in the entire series, why he didn't warp all the jinchuriki and went through the trouble of creating and expanding Akatsuki makes as much sense as to why Aizen recruited all his Espada just to curbstomp everyone by himself in the end.

My theory is that Obito's paranoia once again played a huge part.

He probably needed a lot of time to locate all jinchuriki since the villages kept them in secret (no Kakashi spoilers like Kushina) but most importantly he had to keep Nagato in check.

The whole damn plan hinged on Nagato summoning the Gedo Mazo and the Akatsuki believing Tobi was Madara so that they wouldn't turn on him, abandon the organization or call the shinobi villages to stop his activities.

Since the Gedo Mazo was under Nagato's control and Pain was a freakin monster to deal with should he rebel, Obito couldn't attack frequently for fears of exposing his identity.

Those fears are all sourced in Orochimaru discovering Madara was dead and his whole reason for taking on the goofy Tobi persona.

As long as Orochimaru didn't knew of Tobi's importance in Akatsuki and took Pain for the leader, he wouldn't use the truth about Madara to jeopardize the organization. It was a a moment of sheer brilliance from Kishimoto's part for Tobi to come out only after Orochimaru was taken for dead.

Besides that, there is also Sasuke to factor in. Naruto was useful for Tobi because he could motivate Sasuke to become a substitute for Madara as jinchuriki of the Juubi.

In a nutshell, Tobi didn't go around stealing jinchurikis right of the bat because:

-First he needed Nagato to power up the Gedo Mazo again.

-The time between his attack on Konoha and finding all jinchuriki coincided with Orochimaru joining the Akatsuki and finding the truth about Madara.

-By the time Orochimaru was out of the picture, Tobi had found Sasuke to be a manipulable subtitute for Madara whilist Naruto f###ed up the whole original plan by converting Nagato with the TNJ.

-Since Tobi wanted Naruto to fuel Sasuke's transformation into a controlable substitute for Madara, he made the terrible mistake of underestimating Naruto's growth between the Kage summit and the 4th shinobi war.

It's really a complicated set of circumstances but they do make chronological sense when put together.

6-Like chilibun pointed out, everyone gets the idiot ball once or twice in this series. Besides, I think Obito didn't have much experience fighting with the Gunbai since he threw it to Madara the moment the latter showed up.

7-Obito is insane but his relationship with Rin is that of a knight in shining armor in love with a princess and that can only exhist in his dreams. He could never bear to defile Rin's sacred purity with something like the Edo Tensei and he certainly knows she would never approve the kind of person he came to be.

As far as everyone is concerned, Obito is as sane as Gendo Ikari trying to be together with the ideal version of his wife (consider Edo!Rin like the Ayanami clones) while the world can suck it.

8-Again chilibun pointed out the truth, Madara doesn't give two cents for the Uchiha, all he cares about is substituting reality with his twisted dream of prevailing over Hashirama and being treated like the god he thinks he is.

Heck we can't even know for sure if his plan already involved an Uchiha clan massacre and Obito merely helped out with something he considered essential for the Moon Eye Plan.

9-I believe this was answered in item 3.

[Xiraiya]

Seriously, after reading the manga, you don't think that Obito was responsible for the Kyuubi attack...he had a flashback that confirmed it...

Yes, except no one said anything about it not being him, I pointed out the fact he fought in an entirely different manner to the present day Tobi, so it's sensible to assume he was no where near as equipped back then as he is now, hence the chains.

[narutotheory]

I love the title of this thread.

[xXan]

@chilibun

3) You can't really tell by the picture whether Tobi is still half way in the ground or not when he warped him, so for consistency sake, lets just assume he is already completely out of the ground.

Actualy you can. If you look here:
http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/475/10

Top left panel. You can clearly see his head and his head is somewhere around that dude's waste... Yes he was half underground... Not only that when he is warping you can clearly see the black vest that Torune had is INSIDE OF HIM.

4) Obito is physically connected to the Juubi to control it. Let's say he can't just go intangible at this point because there is a chance the Juubi might go out of control if he isn't actively controlling it at all times. This also explains why he and Madara just stood there like idiots while that lame ass Neji bird came at them. God that was such a stupid idea...

Em if they would blow the entire army away it would become just a matter of getting it again... Anyway Madara would still be connected. I am sure he can hold it...

Oh and Madara getting choped in half is another plot hole... I understand him not moving away as he was "tied" to the Juubi but why in the bloody hell did he not move HIS BLOODY FAN JUST IN FRONT OF HIMSELF? WHY? It can tank minibijudama's from Naruto (rasengans)... Just why? He just looked at the army and never tryied to do shit.

6) It's Naruto! He has a -1000 IQ deduction aura against all his opponenets. All his opponents has become retards when the plot calls for him to hit them with clone/rasengans. Obito isn't the only one that this happens to.

Well its a plot hole when a caracter forget's his IQ is at least on the level of a normal human. That was the point.

7) Well, his beef is that the current world is hell. He might still revive Rin, but after he has completely rewritten it to his idea of the perfect world. No point in summoning the one you love to hell.

Yeah Obito is a moron but i have no idea who would whant a dream of a person they love compared to getting the real thing.

8) Madara probably doesn't give a shit at this point after the Uchiha's forsook him. He hasn't shown he has any love for the Uchiha's at this point. Pllus he is supposedly creating a perfect world and the Uchihas could be revived to his vision of them.

We don't really know that. Aparently he cared enough to get a broken boy out of some rubble... Sure he turned out to be a powerfull asset but there is no way he knew that.
Anyway the Madara that had to fight Hashirama probably did not care but the one that developed over the years... Harder to tell.

---------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 AM ----------

Yes, except no one said anything about it not being him, I pointed out the fact he fought in an entirely different manner to the present day Tobi, so it's sensible to assume he was no where near as equipped back then as he is now, hence the chains.

Aside for the chains who where a bad idea from the start... I mean what type of moron belives he can trap in chains a man that can teleport at will? Makes no bloody sense man... Anyway Obito's fight with Minato was the same as curently. He goes tangible to attack, intangible to defend. Exacly the same.
I mean him going to the grave(Rin's) just about confirms it in my book.

[IChallengeYou!]

the center of obitos kamui is a hole

a PLOT hole

it sucks in facts and logic in so that nonsense and stupidity would reign free

Sorry, I just had to!

Anyways, this as much has been apparent for a long time. Noobito/Trollbito is just here in this manga to make sure it doesn't lose its weirdness/stupidity factor. I actually agree with everything you have said.

Now, I just hope that Madara will nuke Noobito into oblivion. He wiped out the Uchiha, he basically stated to Madara himself to fuck himself, he pisses off everyone with his own endless whinge...I just wish Kishimoto would not surrender to the fanboy/fangirl hype of Obito and change Tobi from whoever it was before (because trust me, it WASN'T Obito, that as much is shown in the manga, if you can't see it I feel bad for you.)

[xXan]

Sorry, I just had to!

Anyways, this as much has been apparent for a long time. Noobito/Trollbito is just here in this manga to make sure it doesn't lose its weirdness/stupidity factor. I actually agree with everything you have said.

Now, I just hope that Madara will nuke Noobito into oblivion. He wiped out the Uchiha, he basically stated to Madara himself to fuck himself, he pisses off everyone with his own endless whinge...I just wish Kishimoto would not surrender to the fanboy/fangirl hype of Obito and change Tobi from whoever it was before (because trust me, it WASN'T Obito, that as much is shown in the manga, if you can't see it I feel bad for you.)

Oh God yes. He was epic (Tobi that is) the moment Obito poped in the caracter whent to hell.... He was suposed to be Madara or someone on Madara's level.. When it was revealed it was actualy a dumb kid going EMO over some babe i "facepalmed" like never before... I mean the most obvious crep had to turn up right? I am sure Kishi whent like "ha not one of you knew he was Obito, muahgahaha"... The rest of us "wtf, seriously?"....

[Brill]

None of these points are plotholes, these "aberrations" are you playing arm-chair manga writer. Just because you don't like the direction Kishi takes the story and Obito's role in it doesn't make it a plothole.

[xXan]

None of these points are plotholes, these "aberrations" are you playing arm-chair manga writer. Just because you don't like the direction Kishi takes the story and Obito's role in it doesn't make it a plothole.

I really hope you are not serious...

If you think this manga does not have plot holes and most of them tied in a way or other to Tobi then you are not reading the same manga as the rest of us...

[Brill]

I really hope you are not serious...

If you think this manga does not have plot holes and most of them tied in a way or other to Tobi then you are not reading the same manga as the rest of us...

Not any of the ones you cited. Most of your "plotholes" are writer's choice. Why didn't ninja X use UBER-ATTACK Technique A instead of the lame technique B. That's not a plothole but you're trying to pan it off as one.

Are there minor plotholes in Naruto? Sure, you can't have a 12-year series and not screw up here-and-there. Are there major plotholes? That's debatable but most of them fall into the realm of reasonable. Are there catastrophic ones? None, even with al the vitriol concerning Obtio there isn't one thing about him that destroys the stroyline. You may not like Obito, but Obtio's existance and storyline are continous and not riddled with plotholes.

[xXan]

@Brill

Not any of the ones you cited. Most of your "plotholes" are writer's choice. Why didn't ninja X use UBER-ATTACK Technique A instead of the lame technique B. That's not a plothole but you're trying to pan it off as one.

When a guy reverts to the IQ of a bloody monkey and forget's he has abilities it is a plot hole. If X writer states Superman can fly and in the next he can't for the plot then that would be a plot hole... If x writer states Batman is smart enough to build a rocket but in the next he can't figure out a simple equation then its a plot hole.

Are there minor plotholes in Naruto? Sure, you can't have a 12-year series and not screw up here-and-there. Are there major plotholes? That's debatable but most of them fall into the realm of reasonable. Are there catastrophic ones? None, even with al the vitriol concerning Obtio there isn't one thing about him that destroys the stroyline. You may not like Obito, but Obtio's existance and storyline are continous and not riddled with plotholes.

That is your opinion... For me when a caracter its made dumb enough to not make a hole in his mask to shoot Katons then its a big plot hole. If he was some moron then ok but he is not. He is one of the smartest man in the manga.
How about Kishi telling us on 1 hand that he can't attack when ge goes intangible but showing us he can have a tangible hand when he turns his torso intangible... Why can't he swing his arm and hit you? Hello plot hole...
Why is Kishi telling us he needs to be solid to warp people but then he is showed intangible and warping people? Again plot hole.
And so on.
Heh if you whant to brush off all the plot holes be my guest but don't expect other people to. Aside for Tobi this manga is great in my book but Obito is the biggest nonsense from the start of this manga..